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Only replying as you tagged me. I understand where you're coming from, and there's definitely an issue with playing with Westbrook. Harden left and became League MVP. Vic left and became an All Star. Westbrook really is something of an enigma, back to back triple double seasons, assists at a high level, but is nonetheless extremely ball dominant and has missed more shots than anyone, takes more shots I think than anyone, and dominates at the end of games and in key games instead of facilitating. All that said, the problem with Durant is not that he left, it's that he joined the already ridiculously loaded Warriors because he could not beat them and wanted a ring. Listen to what Lillard said about that, and any number of other players -- but Lillard tends not to hold back. And asked if he would join the Warriors, Lillard: "Hell no." There are guys like Lillard, and then there are guys like Durant. Skill level here is irrelevant, it's the lame join the team that beat you that people, including myself, find disgusting. It's weak. It's also incredibly disrespectful to Oklahoma City, the fanbase, run to the team that just beat you. Had he come back the next year and fought to beat GS -- you know, with the team that was 1 game away from doing that -- people would view him very differently.

If you call Durant's move that, what word do you have for what Kawhi has going on right now? As far as where KD ranks all time, I'm seeing too much love given to players from 40 years ago. The 15th best player from 1980 is not better than the 2nd best player today. If he had not done so before, LeBron has passed MJ as the greatest ever this season. LBJ has MJ on size and strength. Mj's peak season in rebounds and assists is an average season for LBJ. As far as championships, MJ consistently had a better team around him in a less competitive NBA.

Chiming in late here on the topic, but on the point about Jordan playing crap teams in the Finals, I'll give you guys the Spurs and the Warriors, but Phoenix, Utah and probably Portland are all better than the Dallas team that beat Miami and the OKC team that Miami beat. On the Jordan vs. LeBron debate in general, this is the first time I've been willing to entertain it. But what LeBron is doing in the playoffs this year is insane. I'd still lean to Jordan, but the debate is razor thin. This team LeBron is about to drag to the Finals is hot garbage. He's lucked out a bit because the Raptors are a joke and Boston is injured, but still what he's done this playoffs is absolutely incredible.

I figured that was reserved for King George.

I don’t like Durant, and his move to the team that beat him was a chickensh$$ wimp move that rightfully drew the disgust of most players and fans. Can’t stand him. That said he’s clearly one of the best players today. I would put him behind Kawhi, but no further than 3rd.

Bird's back problem started around 91 season and it shortened his career. I hated Bird and the Celtics but they were such a great team and respected how hard they played. The best of 5 series against the Pacers in the early 90's where Bird went out after slamming his head on the floor and came back in to lead the to the series win was a great feat for Bird. As a Pacers fan I hated it but had to admire his guts for coming back like that.

Just kidding on my part. I think Durant is phenomenal player. I just don't think top of all time. That's all.

Lebron is hardly one-dimensional like Marino. Arguing MJ vs LBJ is legit. Throwing Kobe, Russel, and other players into the argument is letting parsonal bias against LBJ cloud judgment.

I bet if you polled most NBA analysts the vast majority would still have MJ as the GOAT. And I doubt that will change unless Lebron wins a couple more titles.

Definitely wasn’t in attack mode. I just don’t buy into the hating on lebron and Durant. If I came off aggressive it’s because I have strong opinions in it. Anyway, we’re all Hoosiers here and if we disagree that’s great and we can talk about it. Im having a good day. I got all the yard work done and now it’s relaxtion mode. Hope you’re having a nice day.

By your own banana logic Bill Russell is the GOAT and it isnt even close. Your banana brain must have split because you said it was Jordan by a mile. Your arguments and logic have the consistency of a banana smoothie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheHerd/status/862404404338544640/video/1 Wanna talk about super friends? Google Michael Jordan record without pippen. (Its 1-9) the year Jordan missed the bulls still should have won it all. Pippen averaged 22, 9, and 6 with 3 steals. Jordan had a B-B+ version of lebron his entire career..except when he didn’t and couldn’t win a game in the playoffs. But 6-0 right? @dbmhoosier

You have the IQ of a banana.

Good for you. That’s ridiculous.

Fouls, there is literally no comparison. Durant joined the team he could not beat, after choking away a 3-1 West Con Finals lead. Everyone recognized it for exactly what it was - a wimp move. i’m sorry, what’s the comparison to Kawhi? There is no comparison. He has an injury that his docs have diagnosed differently than the Spurs docs and so they’ve had a disagreement over his decision not to play. Meanwhile all signs point (according to those in the know) to the Spurs working this out with him over the summer. What, you think he’s joining the Warriors?? Literally no comparison at all. i agree about Durant — in any era he would be one of the best. Still can’t stand him, still doesn’t change his wimp move. With MJ v LeBron, it’s really about individual judgment at this point imo. MJ was simply unstoppable during that run, which of course included time off for his little baseball experiment. Reggie would have at least one ring but for Jordan (then Shaq/Kobe). Jordan ripped your throat out as a player - Barkley, who at the time was a monster player, was flat out beaten by MJ in those playoffs and to this day acknowledges he was simply better than anyone else on the floor at the time. LeBron is much more like Magic as a player, which is for me a big part of the difficulty in comparing them. Kobe was like Mike, and Mike was better. LeBron is not like Mike, he’s his own thing, and maybe the GOAT, but I think that’s ultimately just a judgment call

And he’s been League MVP in the era of LeBron.

I think he likens them to this year's Craptors.

I left that Seattle team off on purpose, I know their record maybe says otherwise, but I didn't think they were that great.

No.

Well had to think GS would bring the fight at some point. As good as the Rockets are, I’ve never liked D’Antoni’s short bench, 7 guys in the playoffs? GS is attacking in a way right now that wears the Rockets down fast

Yeah, this hot take media nonsense shouldn’t last but another 5 years I reckon. Young people are too savy to put up with that bull. Hmmmm. Who’s that?

You’ve got a very good point there. I think that’s beyond ridiculous. There’s free agency for a reason. In Europe they call it ambition when you want to win titles and don’t dish out ridicule for forcing yourself to stay in a bad situation. What’s the issue? You want to win?! Shame shame shame on you for bettering your situation! Tsk tsk no no don’t do that. It’s beyond ridiculous. So you’re drafted to Sacramento and you’re a top 10 player now, maybe top 3 in year 4...no you can’t leave! You’re too good.

Gotta say I’m amazed the Rockets are doing this well without CP3 in Golden State

Durant would lead the league in scoring by a wide margin every year if he didn’t play with Russ and on this stacked warriors squad. I think he ends up top 10.

The rockets really gonna pull this off? I’d like to see it. Dantoni deserves a ring before he goes out IMO.

Agree all day. What Jordan had to play for titles was crap.

Kevin Durant top 10 player of all time? Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Bird, Duncan, Magic...there's 10 off the top of my head that he'll never crack. I could add Barry, Baylor, Cousy, Dr J, Gervin, Frazier...Lucas, Pistol Pete, West...Oscar. Maybe my NBA radar isn't working or maybe I don't pay close enough attention but if Durant ever ends up on a top 10 list of all time I'd be shocked. I think he's Dirk good. Wade good. Worthy good...but top 10?

I’m not really a LeBron fan either, but what he’s done and is doing right now, closing in on his mid-30’s, is amazing. We’ve come to expect it, so we take it for granted, but no one else is playing on his level (including Durant who thinks he is)

The only argument I would have is that I think the teams that Jordan had to go through were better than the teams Lebron had to go through until he had to play the Warriors the last few years. The eastern Conference was way better back in the 90's than it is today so the Bulls had a tougher route to get to the finals.

I think Lebron people get defensive because we’ve been putting up with bs fake news from the talking heads for about a decade now. The arrogance that comes out of some of these so called experts mouth when the debate comes up used to really make my blood boil. He wasn’t even halfway into his career and a few finals losses ended the debate in some pundits mind. You had that fake bullshit about Kobe being better than him and Kobe being clutch when in all actuality his numbers were terrible in crunch time (think it’s last two of the fourth?). You had that fake news about Lebron lacking the clutch gene. You had the nonsense about him not being a closer and him defering to Wade in late game situations. You had the nonsense about him being afraid to attack the rim because he’s afraid to shoot free throws in late game situations. You got the 6-0 argument thrown in your face when the teams Jordan beat don’t stack up to those warriors or spurs teams. They never talk about the four first round defeats or the fact that he has a losing record in close out games for Jordan. They ignore the fact that he had one of the greatest coaches in history, one of the best two way players in Pippen, one of the best defenders in history in Rodman, and extremely solid players in Kukoch, grant, Armstrong, etc. He had knockdown three point shooters in Kerr + Paxon too. You had that silliness about how tough the defense was back then and how the game isn’t the same. I could go on but I hunk that’s enough. (What also doesn’t get brought up is that little hiatus Jordan took when we all suspect he had to take a nap because of the gambling. We don’t talk about that because he’s God Tier and to question Jordan is insanity.)

What a terrible IU fan I am because the one guy I forgot on my list was from IU in IT

I think it's great for discussion and that's what most of us like to do. The one thing I've never understood is that somehow the Lebron crowd almost is feeling slighted as the 2nd greatest ever (if you think he is). I'm a Lebron fan. I think he's a freak. And I definitely think he belongs in that top 3-4 conversation...he and Kobe are probably neck and neck with Lebron having the edge. To me though best ever is Jordan. Stats, titles, defensive player aside, changed the league, changed the networks..he was carrying the torch that Bird/Magic started and took to another level.......just something about Jordan. His will, determination, mental toughness.....Lebron has all those too. I just think Jordan has a little more. I feel bad that people can't just appreciate greatness. It's almost like debating Willie Mays vs Mickey Mantle. Or Tom Brady vs Joe Montana. Or Jack vs Arnie and the list goes on..

And Bird later admitted Magic was better. That was a great two - battle though

Oh you don’t have to convince me how much of a freak Lebron is. I bought into the “Lebron isn’t a winner” argument for a while, but that went out the window when he beat that Warriors team after being down 3-1. Honestly though, what he’s been doing over the course of the playoffs this year might be even more impressive. To be this dominant at the age of 33, with the amount of minutes he’s played in his career, is absolutely mind boggling. As for Kobe, I don’t think he comes anywhere close to Lebron.