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Payday

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Payday last won the day on October 2 2017

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  1. Payday

    3 more bowl games?

    ESPN had actually expected some of the bowl games to drop. There is a real concern that the diminished fan support in some games, the empty stadiums, will eventually create a tipping point where people just quit watching them. If you continue to expand you bring in new teams and there is still excitement because some of those teams don’t frequent bowls. But if you quit expanding and the excitement wanes there is a concern that it will fall off on all but the playoff games and suddenly you have advertisers and sponsors running from the sport and the perception, and revenue, is bad. But I guess as long as the economy keeps churning you will continue to have underwriters of the bowls and ten people in the stands. I think they are walking pretty close to the edge as far as number of bowls.
  2. Payday

    3 more bowl games?

    This is an interesting thread. On one hand it gives teams and their fans one last game and maybe a chance for a short vacation, not bad. But you really can’t ignor the fact that the only reason they are added is because the NCAA sees money. There is a point where saturation occurs and when you see empty stands it is disheartening and reminding that it is somewhat of a consolation game. But, we had a great time at the game in SF, the boys liked it, so I guess if there are sponsors will to support it there isn’t real harm.
  3. Payday

    Ranking the QB's

    Hey, guys, I am unquestionably biased. And I have nothing against high school coaches in any State. A good friend of mine who played in the NFL and I were talking a while back and he and I laughed and agreed that everything we learned about working hard and fighting through, we learned in high school. High school coaches are the salt of the earth for football. Just don’t act like because a person made it to coach in high school means they have all the answers. There are a lot of stupid ones out there also. They might have the answers, but having played at a fairly high level, my opinion is not lesser and may provide some insight. As far as biased, I am extremely biased favoring the school and program and believe it deserves considerably more respect and effort than it has been given. I consider the town to be in the top three college towns of the big ten and the school is ridiculously well built and attractive. The football program deserves to be in the championship hunt every year and when you throw in the excellence achieved at some of the departments and colleges in the school, it is definitely deserving of more respect. Some of what happened last year was just flat out embarrassing. The behind the scenes antics and childish actions were just unacceptable and I had hoped Allen would fix them by removing the people. He didn’t and we lost players. Cobb would have stayed but he was tired of the condescending actions of one of the coaches, Tasir left because of the same thing. You can’t smile for the camera and tell everyone you love everyone and then have players who see other things without some problems surfacing. I just lost a little more respect because I expected more change, it is that simple. Now, we have some quality QB’s that have come in and last year was always about experience for this year because we all knew the defense was being gutted. They did what they thought was best for the program and it backfired a bit. I understand, people kind of like to keep their jobs. I do not respect some of the moves, especially Ramsey because I would have put in Tronti because he is a much better all around athlete, if you are going to make a change and a think a well experienced coach would have handled it more like the Virginia coach did. I just think that we have to improve in the coaching, then the line and run game, then we have to have a kicker (something everyone forgets), and then the importance of the qb comes in. If your line plays better and you can run, an old man like me could be your qb and still win. So I think the pressure and emphasis should be the rb. Guys, if we don’t have that, we aren’t going to win. We have a defense to get up to speed and have to control the ball. It is that simple. If we don’t control the ball we aren’t going to win no matter who is the qb. Of course, I played in the dark ages when we ran and had a coach tell me that when you ran only two bad things could happen (fumble or a small loss) and when you threw three bad things could happen (int, sack, pick six). Nobody ever scored on us when we ran. I have seen fumbles that turned into td’s, but those are far fewer than pick six. The irony is that IU has put some very good backs in the game. Is there anyone who would like to see Sud play without the backs he had? I’ve always said that if you see a hall of fame qb, look closer and you will find either great backs and average lines or good backs with a good line scattered around the qb’s career. Let’s not put too much on whoever wins the qb job, the qb is not the biggest factor here. i apologize for offending anyone, not my intention. It is just frustrating to see so much potential in the program and not have it produce.
  4. Payday

    Ranking the QB's

    Perhaps you should talk to Tennessee coaches before you make that statement, we were warned about his coaching long before the first snap at IU, by a former associate. So, you are again lost. As for football experience, probably not likely you excell there since I played on an undefeated D1 team in the top conference, back in my day, where they played real football. I didn't go into coaching, took another path. But if I had I would have coached in the area I live now where we have at least three high school programs capable of beating two of the non conference teams IU beat last season. They play real high school football around here. None of that unqualified Indiana school coaching model where a dad or peewee coach can be brought into the system and coach, you need to be qualified around here. I have friends whose kids play Indiana school ball and they are always complaining about the lack of expertise and qualifications demanded from the coaches and their kid is a legitimate superstar. Nobody could do anything when the pocket broke down because it broke down from all angles and we brought in Ramsey and lost to two opponents we beat last year and we had a stronger team, that should be obvious to anyone to see who knows football. Allen flat out said the line was so weak and we had no run game and they couldn’t just let the defense tee off, that should be obvious to anyone. With the move we beat two high school teams and then lost three we should have won, that too is obvious to anyone. Anyone except a biased high school coach. Ramsey was not really hurt where he could not have played within a few days, that was just an effort not to crush a young QB and a kid Allen used to sit on his lap. Had to bring Richard back to try and salvage coaching mistakes. Virginia didn’t make the same mistake after their qb’s horrid game against us and they went to a bowl. As for running QB, there isn’t a definition unless you look at the pro level and they will tell you running QB’s only exist in college because they get killed in the pros and cost seasons. However, if you at least have a back to occupy the linebacker for a second a 4.9 QB is plenty fast enough. But our grinding back really did not arrive until late in the season. I can tell you what a QB is, and you can use this as a coaching aid, it is someone who distributes the ball and recognizes he is a leader and as such does not put himself in harms way unnecessarily because there are a lot of other guys who have worked hard and contribute and don’t need the instability of a QB injury if avoidable. Also, take the two high school games out of the stats, then look at the Ramsey production and the defensive stats for the year, the answer is obvious to anyone. It was a catastrophic failure. But then, I’m not a coach in an Indiana high school football program where any bubba can come in and coach, so what could I know. Lol. You have a great season, let’s just see how the season goes. The line has to be stronger, maybe our brilliant coaches won’t place Westbrook on the kickoff coverage, and we have a back that should be able to grind out some yardage since he will be stronger and older. The QB should not have to carry as much and one of them, whoever wins out, if they play like a distributing QB, should be able to compensate for the inexperienced and sometimes stupid coaching and get us back to a bowl.
  5. Payday

    Ranking the QB's

    They didn’t have to think twice. You need to study football a little more. You have been trying to pick a fight for some reason, ok. UM, MSU, and Wis, didn’t have to worry about him because they knew the backup was unable (who was inserted because the coach panicked in Virginia and threw away all the offseason training and an ability to build off OSU and you notice the Virginia coach stayed with his QB who was awful against us and had a good year) to be a deep threat and could not stretch the sidelines and when he tried it was a pick and that setup was a defensive backfield dream situation that cost us games we won last year because we had a coach that could see the whole picture and plan. Only a High school coach would be dumb enough to make that move, perhaps that is where your support originates from. Tasir was very young, but if you knew him you might see the athletic ability. You saw it in spurts, and against Purdue, but he just needed a year or so. Just because he left the program due to coaching personnel doesn’t mean you should discount him. And nobody questioned Dawkins transferring, just that he should not have folks like you putting a ton of pressure on him. We have other more important areas that must develope and most middle school coaches would agree. You think you have it figured out because of some high level of high school coaching, perhaps you should apply for the job to Fred. He is going to need coaches if things don’t come together. And yes, DeBord has been run out of every program he has been fortunate enough to latch onto. Michigan didn’t want him and tennessee was furious with him so instead of retiring he was given a retirement plan it IU. HE CHANGED THE PLAY CALLING FOR THE ROUTES IN THE PURDUE GAME AND THE RECEIVERS WERE USING THE WRONG TERMINOLOGY/SIGNALS BECAUSE OF HIM THE ENTIRE FIRST HALF OF THE PURDUE GAME! He should have been fired after the game. If you were listening to Allen’s and Richard’s explanation of the pick on the first play you would hear Allen, one of the few times he backed up Richard all year, state the receiver needed to get where he was supposed to be. Thanks to DeBorge changing the terminology and then forgetting, the receiver ran five yards deep BEHIND the defenders and you can’t do that on that route. Yea, last game of the season, he changed the routes, forgot the new language, and we could do nothing......he is a real keeper. Maybe for high school. Maybe that is why he has been around college so long and nobody wants him as a head coach. The team has a very good chance to be good. But the ability is going to depend on that line staying healthy and playing within themselves. And you have to get a back. If we don’t have a back the linebackers don’t key on him and it allows them to concentrate on the QB a step sooner. Of course, in high school it is easy comparatively speaking, in the big ten it gets real and is real football. You should stick to high school. I’ve played at the championship level in college and you aren’t ready for prime time. One last point: we had a good game going against OSU. You should go look at the stats from the season game before and see the defense stats and offense stats, maybe you will see where the real fault for the season fell. Most of our defensive personnel were the same both years and they had a proclaimed defensive guru head coach now. Hummm, SMH. Nothing better than a fan who is a high school coach not seeing what happened.
  6. Payday

    Ranking the QB's

    Forgot about whop, he is a keeper. Hale has been injured alot but is very good. Taysir will be playing on Sundays, he is that good, if he keeps his head straight. It was known he was leaving, and Cobb would not stay, for a good while and there is an internal matter that will have to be addressed or more will continue to limit their time if possible. That is about all that should be said. My point all along was that we can’t burden whoever is qb with too much in expectation. We may have a back on the roster, and like the coaching, the line can’t help but be better. But if the line or back falters it doesn’t matter who is the qb. It was strange last year that with Redding leaving they didn’t go get a grad transfer or juco back, we were empty on the shelves. I think we have a grinder back, we need that burst back.
  7. Payday

    Ranking the QB's

    I think that maybe your comment about the OSU game is exactly what I said. They managed to hide it to halftime. As far a feet moving, your last qb ran a 4.9 it pro day. Your receivers were not great either. But you can’t move your feet to make up for a poor o-line. We were ok in the osu game till a left guard let a d end come fairly clean around the blind side when a moron called a pass play on our own ten or so yard line. I know peewee coaches who would not have called that play in that area of the field. Now, as for running qb’s, a qb who carries the team with his legs will eventually get injured and the season is a bust. Surely you aren’t saying cam was alone on that team, he had a lot of solid support. If we had Carl Lewis last season playing qb he would not have made a difference running. Saying a running qbs can get the job done assumes the line can provide lanes or at least block half the line. Even in a the osu game the commentators kept talking about how much the qb was being hit and still making the plays. At the end of the day the coaches should adjust to what they have and scheme accordingly. Nobody believes that happened last year and if it does not happen this year there will be a lot of noise. The defense was not very good last year and now it is missing experience. I just think this is year is a dangerous year if expectations are too high too early. Sorry, the last part somehow didn’t post. I just don’t think this kid coming in, who has left programs behind, deserves to have all the hopes and expectations of the team on his shoulders. The line has to drastically improve, they have to find a back. If they fail in either, who is playing qbs is unimportant. You can’t allow big ten opponents to game plan knowing you can not run with your backs, it simply is not possible.
  8. Payday

    Ranking the QB's

    Any coach, well any good coach, knows how to use the abilities of his players and developes around the crew he has. There are those who need a running qb to compensate for coaching ability, but look at the history books and you find very few running qb’s who won championships. It works in HS, but as talent compresses upwards it is harder. Last year the line was weak and we really didn’t have a RB and the draft pretty much showed what I had already told the family, we just did not have the track speed at receiver. Losing Westbrook at the beginning was much bigger than people realized. No backs, a green line, and the defense was not nearly as good as the talk from the coaches and fans kept saying. Ohio did whatever they wanted once they realized we could not beat them deep (we can thank Wilson for that halftime adjustment) and our defense could not stop them and Purdue embarrassed the defense. Add to that a new coach with no experience, a complete lack of any imagination on offense, and there was no way things were going to go any different than they did. I think if Wilson had stayed we would have made it to a bowl again. Hell, we almost did despite not having a coach. But I think everyone should be cautious about the coming season, there are always reasons a graduate transfer arrives after being somewhere for four years and making friends for four years, the general public just might not see behind the curtain. It might be great, everyone hopes it is. The line will be better, we have to develop a back, Westbrook will be back, but losing Tasir and his speed and size will hurt. Coaching has to be better, surely it could not be worse. But we are still in he toughest conference in the nation, in the toughest side, and unlike other conferences, they play defense here. But, and you can write this down, if we have a qb who has to run to save the season, in this conference, we will not improve.
  9. If you look back I think you will see that all those schools had a strong qb type system in place . Obvious there are exception to everything.
  10. If you want to make it to the next level definitely increase your chance by going to a second tier program like a Wyoming or NC type situation. I have said that for the last few years, tried to send my son that direction but he wanted Big Ten, but the halls are littered with big ten qb’s passed over for lesser school qbs because they had superior stats against inferior opponents. It is a paradox that is impacting the quality of qbs in the nfl. The old school rule, going with the guy who competed against the best, has been forgotten and you are seeing the nfl qbs that are not quite as good as the legends of the past who did come from top tier programs...mostly. And on the other side, if you insist on being at a big time program as a qb, you need to be in a system program where they have a past history and a marketing machine. Some of these schools spend a great deal of money marketing their players because it helps recruiting. At IU’s pro day they spent money on a rope and did nothing to hype the ordeal whereas you see schools like LSU and other big programs making their pro day more like a paid ticket event and even had real bleachers brought in. It is all about the packaging these days.
  11. Payday

    Fant hurt

    Maybe the smartest post I have seen on this board. I love the kid, but most fans fail to realize he missed most of his junior year and was hurt most of his senior year. Part is due to just a poor conditioning and training, but he is a beast and if you were an NFL scout it was impossible to look past him and I think everyone is happy for his draft and financial gain because he has had a tough road.
  12. Payday

    Nick Tronti Transferring

    He should be fine, this has been coming a long time and he probably is kicking himself for not leaving at the end of the season. Not sure how they will get all the qb’s reps without making the same mistake they made last year and ending up with an offense that does not progress during the season.
  13. Payday

    Hoosiers in the NFL

    In the offense Allen and Borg ran, it would be hard not to be better.
  14. Payday

    11 Hoosiers in Pro Day

    Post their stats! Between the combines and pro day they should all be in.
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