HMSHoosier

This is not intended on going after anybody or anything, nor am I trying to ruffle any feathers. Been catching up on a lot of the threads and every now and then I will see someone post about IU being mediocre(not that I disagree). That just got me thinking though. Is there a certain era of IU basketball that everyone compares to, or is it comparing to all of Coach Knights time at IU? Is it wins and losses? Is it a tourney run? Again this is not directed at anyone or trying to ruffle anybody up it just got me thinking of what my expectations should be moving forward. I was born in '77 so I hardly remember the '81 championship but my expectations have always been to get back to the time from '81 to around '94 because IU was usually fairly high ranked, in the running for BIG titles and making deep tourney runs. In the last six years under Knight things started going downhill in my opinion. There was the '02 run to the championship game but at no point through that season did I think that was going to happen if I'm being honest. Then I got some hope for a few years under Crean but we all know how that ended. I look forward to what everyone thinks.

Totally agree. I wasn't thrilled with the last 2 hires but I guess I had hope since Woodson played here in the hay day of IU basketball he would put in the work to get it back to where it once was. Boy was I wrong!

So I was one of the few that was wanting Woodson to get another year at least, mainly because I'm tired of this same thing happening every 3-4 years and quit frankly I thought he deserved it. I want someone in place where something can be built and have some long term sustainability. With that being said I and what has went down yesterday I'm officially done and he needs to go! If I wasn't doing my job no matter how long I had been there or what i had done for them in the past I would be fired immediately. Get somebody in there that gives a damn and wants to do the job not just earn a paycheck.

Is this something you want or do you have info no one else has? 8 new players came in this year, why would anyone want that much roster turnover every year? You will never get any consistently replacing that many players a year! That's one thing I've noticed on here. Some of the same ones on here wanting the Coach fired are also wanting all the players gone, it just doesn't add up to me. Which is it the players or the coach or do we just want to keep starting from scratch every year? There will never be any stability if we keep overhauling every 3-4 years.

If you think they are in a better position because of their remaining schedule I would agree since they play the bottom half of the league twice. If we lose today we would have the same record. The only thing they have is a win against Baylor.

I'm not comparing them in terms of what they have accomplished in their coaching career. What I am pointing out is Izzo has essentially the same team last year that went to the S16 and so far everybody has had some sort of reasoning why it's ok for that to happen. On the flip side Woody has a relatively new team with alot of new pieces and he has no grace from the fans for down year.

At this point I don't see either making the tournament. If you asked me at the beginning of the season though I would have MSU would 100% make the tournament because they were returning all their key players.

I'm not comparing Izzo to Woodson. My comparison is the reaction of fans, and how things on here are viewed differently for different coaches.

So that's Izzo's fault right? Since he built the team.

I know I'm going to get "beat up" for my thought as I'm not in the majority, and that's fine. I do have experience of being apart of a team for a better part of 25 years and still going. It's not basketball but it's still essentially the same as there are 25 people involved. The longer you can keep the team together the stronger you will get and you can stay at the top of the sport. The more that change happens the more uncertainty you will have every year. As far as the development argument goes If I don't work on my craft than I will never get better or help the team get better. I can't wait around for the leader to force me to get better or we will all suffer. Just my 2 cents

I totally agree he deserves the leeway to have down year. That's also why I think Coach Woodson deserves some leeway too. He made the tournament in his first 2 years with mainly upperclassmen. Now after losing the top 4 players from a year ago a lot of people are calling for his job after 2 1/2 years, and are ready to start all over again.

I don't go to other teams boards to see what they are saying about their coaches, but I was curious what's everyone's thoughts on Tom Izzo. I would assume most people would feel he's a pretty damn good coach, right? Did he forget how to coach this year, or is he not "developing" players or is he not adjusting his coaching to the players he has? He essentially has the same team from last year, 76% of minutes played returned from last year and 75% of scoring returned from last year. He has one win against against a ranked opponent as they stomped Baylor. On the flip side they lost to Wisconsin at home by 13, lost at Nebraska by 8 (which from what I've seen is its unacceptable to lose to them), lost at Northwestern by 14, and lost at Wisconsin by 15. Their record is 12-8, so did he forget how to coach? Maybe their fans are saying the same thing as many on here are I personally don't know. Would the same ones on here be calling for his job as well if he was IU's coach just curious?

I would think the staff looked at all the options available and probably determined either no one fit what they are doing or the players they were looking at that wound up going to other schools for one reason or another. I don't think they purposefully left it open. I do feel their priorities were probably on trying to get some inside players initially since Malik was the only big left and there were 6 guards either upperclassman/ incoming freshman already committed to the roster. I know as a fan I was more concerned about getting some inside players to help with what was lost. I guess I would have to take time and go back and look who was available at the time to see if maybe I would have like to see them try to get a certain player. I do remember they were talking to Love from UNC. I'm sure there were others, but that one just sticks out because I'm in North Carolina and everybody kept telling me you don't want him (UNC fans).

The overreactions on here are comical. After Nebraska game "coach needs fired he sucks, can't coach...blah, blah, blah". After Ohio State game "best game I've seen coached". Rutgers "coach needs fired he sucks" and now I see we are wanting to kick players off the team for a bonehead move, but in the same breathe complain about not having a enough depth the guard position. It absolutely bogles my mind to read some of this crap. Lets start with the firing the coach argument. Who do you replace him with? At what point do you quit firing coaches every 3 or 4 years so something can actually be built? Believe me I can't stand seeing them play like they do especially on the road and I absolutely hate losing. My expectations are yes we should be contending for BIG championships and National titles, but realistically I know that's not going to happen every year. If you came into this year not expecting growing pains after losing 4 starters (who were the 4 leading scorers) and 2 transfers (who were usually the first 2 off the bench) than in my opinion you didn't have very realistic expectations. Go back to 1987, win the national title the top 2 players graduate, come back the next year and have a record of 19-10 overall 11-7 in the BIG get a #4 seed and get knocked out to the first round. Did that meet everyones expectations? College basketball is as competitive as its ever been in my opinion with NIL and the transfer portal. In this day and age where do you think a 19-10 overall record would get you seeded in the tournament? Do missed free throws annoy the crap out of me yes, but I highly doubt they are not being worked on every day in practice. I find it hard to believe that Cheaney and Hulls are not working with these guys on their shooting woes, but than again I'm not at the practices to know that 100%. Maybe some of the "insiders" have info to debunk that. Why don't they recruit shooters argument. Every kid that gets recruited in a top college program can shoot, are some better than others yes. Take Galloway for example, he shot like 40% from 3 last year this year they are just not falling, it happens its not like he forgot how to shoot from last year to this year. Now I'm sure if I went to the recruiting page and searched through all of the recruits we have there would be threads on probably all of these kids talking about their high school stats and how they were the leading scorers of their teams and shot a certain percentage from three, and average this many points per game. Why don't they recruit guards argument. Do people forget JHS last year? Going into last year I honestly thought he would be at minimum a 2 year player but he played good enough to go to the next level and good for him. There's also Newton who is injured and red shirting who was a highly rated recruit. I would venture to say that wasn't in their game plan. Substitution pattern argument. Do I get frustrated with this, yes, but I'm also not in practice to see what the staff sees. Again if there is insight to tell me otherwise please by all means correct me on it. There's been moments this year when the bench has came in and a certain 1 or 2 of those players had been really productive and actually seemed to get things going. Than there have been moments when they come in and look lost it happens. If the staff didn't think they deserved the minutes I truly don't believe they would get them. Sorry for the long post

I don't post much but thought I would give my 2 cents worth. I was at the game on Saturday and what started out to be very promising turned into a s***show. I agree to substitution pattern definitely sucked, but in my opinion what changed the game a lot was after the timeout when IU was up 10 or 12 the game changed physically. It went from basketball to more of a tackle basketball kinda like what Rutgers plays, and they never tried to punch back. We sat on the side line and it was hard to watch our interior players literally getting grabbed and held and nothing get called. That being said there are other things I personally noticed. 1.) Ware and Malik need to figure out or do a better job of recognizing the double and sometimes triple teams and get rid of the ball. 2.) I think there needs to be more set plays to actually free up shooters to get 3 point shots. Personally I think we have good shooters but their never put in situations to actually get into a rhythm. Early in that game when everything was flowing the shots were going in. I seen in a bunch of places that Woodson shouldn't have sat Galloway with 2 fouls in the first half. While I will agree that he should have brought back in at some point to maybe help, but everybody on here knows if he would have done that and Galloway picked up a 3rd foul everybody would be saying why did he put him back in. We are 7-2, yes we got blown out twice and that sucks, but also remember that this is basically a whole new team with 8 new players. Not making excuses but to think we were going to be as good as last year to start this year was a reach after losing 4 starters and top 4 point getters. I think as the season goes on we will have up and down moments but in the end I feel they will be pretty good.