PSU Post Game Thread

[Hoosier51]

15 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Here's the thing, we could very well win against OSU at home, I almost expect it. The problem with this program and specific group of players is consistency. Time and time again this program wins a game against a good team at home, only to lose to a lesser team away. When is the last time we actually put together a winning streak in conference? Somebody please help me out.

I'll be cautiously optimistic once we stop having the constant let downs and show improvement, until then -- even if we do beat OSU -- I'm expecting more of the same...disappointment.

100% agree with this, we need to get more consistent. Not just game to game but in game also. 👍

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Hoosier51

[Inequality]

2 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Text from my 84 year old aunt this morning. When is this $*(%*(#(#$ bs....$%%## going to stop? I only have a few more years left!

I can relate to this. I have some elderly alum family members that say the same. A couple of them had season football and basketball tickets for as long as I’ve been around that have either given them up or they give them away every season.

[Billingsley99]

Here is my only comment on last night. I have beaten this horse already after each loss but its a process. I hate that term because of the 76ers. It is true. This team/program is trying to figure out how to win close games. It goes beyond the coaching staff. The guys need to figure it out and at some point they will. Will it be this year I sure as hell hope so. You begin to find a way to close out games that are tight and then that becomes the norm. This program has not done that in years but I think they are much closer now than in the past. Once they learn how to turn that corner and stat figuring out how to win games and stop playing to lose games we will then start making the progress that we fans hope to see. We are not loaded with winners. Even the guys we brought in have not won on the big stage and when the game is close we play tight and not relaxed. We have yet to learn that killer instinct. As fans we sit there watching anticipating on how are we going to lose it this time,or at least I do. Eventually they will start closing out those games and these close games will turn into double digit wins. It is a process and the staff knows that and I just wish we could speed it up a little. 

 

I was listening to the game last night and down 1 with the ball I did not feel like we were going to make a play. We need an alpha to just step up and say i am going to go get us a bucket. We have 1 he just can't use his right hand. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Billingsley99

[Mike]

20 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Here is my only comment on last night. I have beaten this horse already after each loss but its a process. I hate that term because of the 76ers. It is true. This team/program is trying to figure out how to win close games. It goes beyond the coaching staff. The guys need to figure it out and at some point they will. Will it be this year I sure as hell hope so. You begin to find a way to close out games that are tight and then that becomes the norm. This program has not done that in years but I think they are much closer now than in the past. Once they learn how to turn that corner and stat figuring out how to win games and stop playing to lose games we will then start making the progress that we fans hope to see. We are not loaded with winners. Even the guys we brought in have not won on the big stage and when the game is close we play tight and not relaxed. We have yet to learn that killer instinct. As fans we sit there watching anticipating on how are we going to lose it this time,or at least I do. Eventually they will start closing out those games and these close games will turn into double digit wins. It is a process and the staff knows that and I just wish we could speed it up a little. 

 

I was listening to the game last night and down 1 with the ball I did not feel like we were going to make a play. We need an alpha to just step up and say i am going to go get us a bucket. We have 1 he just can't use his right hand. 

He can't make a bucket at end of big games either.Three years and you have a repeat pattern.

[Euroclydon]

Did not post during or right after the game. Frustrated watching another opportunity wasted but trying to figure out what the answers might be for this team.

The numbers are telling. Crushed on the boards. Couldn't shoot inside or outside. Not getting enough off the bench. But it's the individual player stats that get us closer to the real answers.

TJD did not have a good game. For all his ability, if you need 18 shots to get 20 points you are not effective scoring the ball. If you miss multiple layups (point blank) it's going to hurt your team. When you play 34 minutes and end with 5 rebounds as the best big on the court, you're not getting it done. Just not a good game.

More disappointing is Kopp and Stewart. Combined 60 minutes played results in 7 points, 2 rebounds, 6 fouls. That can't happen. You could argue there will be games when guys are off, but IU doesn't have the bench scoring to allow this sort of no show from two starters. Rob made a few nice shots but the bench in general is not helping. Maybe Galloway can bring some intangibles to help, but it's asking a lot from a Soph coming off injury to turn things around.

As a team, if you only get 12 free throws for a game you're not attacking the basket. Then you look at the team and very few guys can get to the basket and when they do you end up with some odd no chance shots. X is not finishing. Bates is throwing up one crazy shot after another. Geronimo knocked down 2 of 3 but he was dead set on shooting as soon as he touched the ball. Who can hit a mid-range jumper? Who can get to the basket with a quality shot when outside shots aren't falling? Who can get to the FT line and knock'em down when your team is struggling? I do not see an answer for any of those questions.

Sadly, everything above is mostly offense. related What happened yesterday exposed the defense as well. Too many guys got lost and could not recover to wide open shooters. Granted, Dread hit some hope for the best threes but that seems to be the norm when playing Indiana. The bigger issue has continued for years - late in the clock the other teams works the ball to get a guard matched up with a big like Race covering outside and they come up with a jumper. Race is all heart but he still is not quick enough to move and stop a shot or drive. OSU has lived off that for years against Race, so we will see it a lot on Thursday. 

I don't have answers but my first thought is you can't have Kopp and Stewart on the court together if they are not getting and hitting shots. Better off having Geronimo (defense/rebound), Bates (defense/drive) , or Rob (defense/point) out there with Kopp or Stewart as your shooter and everyone else attacks the rim.

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

Here is my only comment on last night. I have beaten this horse already after each loss but its a process. I hate that term because of the 76ers. It is true. This team/program is trying to figure out how to win close games. It goes beyond the coaching staff. The guys need to figure it out and at some point they will. Will it be this year I sure as hell hope so. You begin to find a way to close out games that are tight and then that becomes the norm. This program has not done that in years but I think they are much closer now than in the past. Once they learn how to turn that corner and stat figuring out how to win games and stop playing to lose games we will then start making the progress that we fans hope to see. We are not loaded with winners. Even the guys we brought in have not won on the big stage and when the game is close we play tight and not relaxed. We have yet to learn that killer instinct. As fans we sit there watching anticipating on how are we going to lose it this time,or at least I do. Eventually they will start closing out those games and these close games will turn into double digit wins. It is a process and the staff knows that and I just wish we could speed it up a little. 

 

I was listening to the game last night and down 1 with the ball I did not feel like we were going to make a play. We need an alpha to just step up and say i am going to go get us a bucket. We have 1 he just can't use his right hand. 

Sorry but i don't agree with this.  All these highly or slightly high ranked kids have won their whole lives, its why they are d1 players.  Learning to win isn't something these kids need to do, they know what it takes to win, they did it for years.  What is it they need.  Not sure.  But it looks like Heart, Grit, Hustle, Passion, and Competitive spirit could be it.  Being soft and weak willed is hard to change in a person.

And even if it is learning to win again, which i don't agree with, not playing your young players any minutes throughout the season isn't going to instill that in next years starters.  It will be Rinse and Repeat from the last 8 years. 

I don't know what the issue is with IU basketball.  I really wish someone did.  Because its getting downright ridiculous how predictable we are. 

Just my thoughts.  I appreciate your opinion on here. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by IowaHoosierFan

[BobSaccamanno]

There has been some talk on here that our talent is pretty good.  Is it really, though?  We don't have a single well rounded player on the team.  

Starting five:  Race, Trayce, Kopp, Stewart, XJ.  Collectively, that's a slow team.  

Then you add the fact that the best bet on the planet is these guys will miss free throws in the last five minutes (and the other team will hit them), we don't screen enough, no one has won anything at the college level, and high expectations look totally unrealistic.  

The team does work hard on defense, and credit them for that.  For them to have any kind of success, they need more synergy on offense and play smart and over their heads.  On offense we have too much one on one hero ball (primarily XJ and TJD), and not enough ball movement and screens to get guys like Kopp and Stewart going.

The short version is this team is not athletic nor talented, and they don't know how to win.  Their defense can keep them in a game, but they need to play way smarter on O.

Yesterday, the staff should have looked at the poor output from Kopp and Stewart and adjusted better on the fly.  And, when our guys were lackluster and standing around on the boards, Geronimo should have been inserted.  i don't care if you pegged him as a four.  Bring him in at the 3 and I bet he grabs a couple of loose balls and boards that we didn't get.  That could make all the difference in the world.  

Let's be honest, that was a poor Penn State team that beat IU.

[Billingsley99]

23 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Sorry but i don't agree with this.  All these highly or slightly high ranked kids have won their whole lives, its why they are d1 players.  Learning to win isn't something these kids need to do, they know what it takes to win, they did it for years.  What is it they need.  Not sure.  But it looks like Heart, Grit, Hustle, Passion, and Competitive spirit could be it.  Being soft and weak willed is hard to change in a person.

And even if it is learning to win again, which i don't agree with, not playing your young players any minutes throughout the season isn't going to instill that in next years starters.  It will be Rinse and Repeat from the last 8 years. 

I don't know what the issue is with IU basketball.  I really wish someone did.  Because its getting downright ridiculous how predictable we are. 

Just my thoughts.  I appreciate your opinion on here. 

What have they won at. How many conference titles total for this roster? How many tournament wins total for this roster? How many total state championships. Winning in AAU is not knowing how to win. There is a huge difference in being a D1 athlete and knowing how to win. I respectfully disagree with your take. You have to learn how to win as a team and this team/program has not done so in a long time

[Inequality]

Iona would take IU straight to the woodshed. 11-2. Beat then ranked 15 Alabama and went toe to toe with Kansas. Think about their talent level. I wouldn’t bet against them vs Kentucky or Purdue this year. How did they learn how to win already? Ol’ Ricky lit a fire in their pants that’s how.

[AxnJxn]

43 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The team does work hard on defense, and credit them for that.  For them to have any kind of success, they need more synergy on offense and play smart and over their heads.  On offense we have too much one on one hero ball (primarily XJ and TJD), and not enough ball movement and screens to get guys like Kopp and Stewart going.

I think this is what is kind of head scratching to me, that we can be a very, very good defensive team, and almost the exact opposite on offense. It just doesn't wash that we have the athletes to play solid defense, rebound, block shots, and all of that, and then we're slow on the other end. That's what really doesn't make much sense to me, unless the guys are just losing their legs from the work on the defensive end, and it's affecting them on offense.

It's also kind of maddening that we can fix one problem, as in the turnovers were much better yesterday, and then we get outhustled on the boards and whatnot. It's like fixing a leaking dam, where you plug one hole and another one opens up.

[Billingsley99]

8 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Iona would take IU straight to the woodshed. 11-2. Beat then ranked 15 Alabama and went toe to toe with Kansas. Think about their talent level. I wouldn’t bet against them vs Kentucky or Purdue this year. How did they learn how to win already? Ol’ Ricky lit a fire in their pants that’s how.

They started learning it last year and now are building on it.  I might be wrong but I think some of their transfers had some success elsewhere.  Let's not confuse any of our recent or current coaches with Pitino. There is a reason he is a hall of fame coach

[Billingsley99]

3 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I think this is what is kind of head scratching to me, that we can be a very, very good defensive team, and almost the exact opposite on offense. It just doesn't wash that we have the athletes to play solid defense, rebound, block shots, and all of that, and then we're slow on the other end. That's what really doesn't make much sense to me, unless the guys are just losing their legs from the work on the defensive end, and it's affecting them on offense.

It's also kind of maddening that we can fix one problem, as in the turnovers were much better yesterday, and then we get outhustled on the boards and whatnot. It's like fixing a leaking dam, where you plug one hole and another one opens up.

To me defense is much more team oriented and working together you can achieve more with less. Offensively sometimes you just have to go get yours and without the athletes it gets difficult. This is not worded well but hopefully it makes sense. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

43 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

What have they won at. How many conference titles total for this roster? How many tournament wins total for this roster? How many total state championships. Winning in AAU is not knowing how to win. There is a huge difference in being a D1 athlete and knowing how to win. I respectfully disagree with your take. You have to learn how to win as a team and this team/program has not done so in a long time

You act like these kids have never won a game.  Never had adversity and that they only play pick up ball in AAU.  All of these kids, although never won state titles or anything were part of big AA programs, high school or prep school programs and were winners at some level throughout their lives.  Or they wouldn't be high level Top 150 players in the country.  We can't just be so bad at player evaluations that we only pick overrated soft players.

Missing point blank shots has nothing to do with learning to win.  Shooting sub 60% from the free throw has nothing to do with learning to win.  Turning the ball over with stupid or lazy passes has nothing to do with learning to win.  Not fighting for rebounds or blocking out has nothing to do with learning to win.  Having no shot other than a dunk or a 3point shot has nothing to do with learning to win.  These are the things that lead to winning.  These are things you have to spend more time in the gym than you bed that lead to winning.  Winning will come if we shoot better.  rebound better.  Free Throw shoot better.  Play harder and leave it all on the court.  Tell me, how many games have you watched and thought, man, they left it all on the court?  I can't think of many games.

I don't disagree that there is something to winning breading winning and losing breeds losing.  But there is so much more wrong with this team besides just not knowing how to finish a game.  How to play a whole game is more important.  How to hit free throws when you get them.  How to finish at the Rim.  How to hit that 15' that is missing from all our guys.  How to get open and create your own shot.  How to fight for the ball and rebound with a passion.  How to run the floor at both ends.  Leave it all on the court.  We don't do that.  We shrug it off and go on to the next practice.  When was the last time you saw an IU player on the court crying or devastated over losing a tough fought game.

These are all the things i think need to change.  We get moderately better at any one of these things and we win more games.  Get better at all of them incrementally and we're a dangerous team.  Move the needle moderately and we're a final 4 team. 

Sorry for the rant.  I do appreciate your point of view, even if i don't agree with it

Edited January 3, 2022 by IowaHoosierFan

[AxnJxn]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

To me defense is much more team oriented and working together you can achieve more with less. Offensively sometimes you just have to go get yours and without the athletes it gets difficult. This is not worded well but hopefully it makes sense. 

It does. I mean, there's plenty of valid discussion about how we don't really have anyone that can create their own shot, or how we lack athleticism on the wings. I also really like how we look on defense this year - it's a notable departure from what we were seeing with our attempts to run the pack line the past few years, and it's actually enjoyable watching this team play defense (well, at least until PSU gets 3-4 shots in a possession due to offensive rebounds). 

[Inequality]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

They started learning it last year and now are building on it.  I might be wrong but I think some of their transfers had some success elsewhere.  Let's not confuse any of our recent or current coaches with Pitino. There is a reason he is a hall of fame coach

I’m with ya on Pitino. That was my point though lol.

A good coach can squeeze more out of players than the players themselves knew they had in them.

[IUFLA]

To add to the head scratching, I just listened to Coyle interviewing Don Fischer, and Fisch said he'd heard from a couple of people that the 2 practices before yesterday's game were the 2 best practices IU has had all year...

[Billingsley99]

6 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

You act like these kids have never won a game.  Never had adversity and that they only play pick up ball in AAU.  All of these kids, although never won state titles or anything were part of big AA programs, high school or prep school programs and were winners at some level throughout their lives.  Or they wouldn't be high level Top 150 players in the country.  We can't just be so bad at player evaluations that we only pick overrated soft players.

Missing point blank shots has nothing to do with learning to win.  Shooting sub 60% from the free throw has nothing to do with learning to win.  Turning the ball over with stupid or lazy passes has nothing to do with learning to win.  Not fighting for rebounds or blocking out has nothing to do with learning to win.  Having no shot other than a dunk or a 3point shot has nothing to do with learning to win.  These are the things that lead to winning.  These are things you have to spend more time in the gym than you bed that lead to winning.  Winning will come if we shoot better.  rebound better.  Free Throw shoot better.  Play harder and leave it all on the court.  Tell me, how many games have you watched and thought, man, they left it all on the court?  I can't think of many games.

I don't disagree that there is something to winning breading winning and losing breeds losing.  But there is so much more wrong with this team besides just not knowing how to finish a game.  How to play a whole game is more important.  How to hit free throws when you get them.  How to finish at the Rim.  How to hit that 15' that is missing from all our guys.  How to get open and create your own shot.  How to fight for the ball and rebound with a passion.  How to run the floor at both ends.  Leave it all on the court.  We don't do that.  We shrug it off and go on to the next practice.  When was the last time you say an IU player on the court crying or devastated over losing a tough fought game.

These are all the things i think need to change.  We get moderately better at any one of these things and we win more games.  Get better at all of them incrementally and we're a dangerous team.  Move the needle moderately and we're a final 4 team. 

Sorry for the rant.  I do appreciate your point of view, even if i don't agree with it

I'm sorry I don't have time to address all of this with my thoughts. I will sum up that sitting down. With Coach Knight several years ago and him saying that kids have to learn how to win as being on of the best pieces of advice that he could give to young coaches I hold that pretty closely.  There is a huge difference in hoping to win and in trying not to lose. I stick with its a process. Winning in the BIG is hard and we need to start closing out some of these games. When you are not uses to winning on this level it's hard to expect to win. 

You make valid points and I can see them. I am just giving my opinion as a not very good former coach.😀

[Hippopotamo]

I think a team’s ceiling is limited when the best player is a big man, and an especially flawed one at that. When we absolutely need a bucket, who’s that guy? Obviously it has to be Trayce, but he misses too many bunnies, can’t use his right hand, can’t really hit a jumper, and can’t create for himself off the dribble. When we’re desperate for a bucket and relying on the player I just described, your offense isn’t going to be very successful in the clutch. 

[Billingsley99]

10 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I’m with ya on Pitino. That was my point though lol.

A good coach can squeeze more out of players than the players themselves knew they had in them.

A coach can definitely convince you are something that you might not be some good and some not so good.  If a coach like Pitino says you are a winner you probably believe it

[slojoe]

1 hour ago, Euroclydon said:

Did not post during or right after the game. Frustrated watching another opportunity wasted but trying to figure out what the answers might be for this team.

The numbers are telling. Crushed on the boards. Couldn't shoot inside or outside. Not getting enough off the bench. But it's the individual player stats that get us closer to the real answers.

TJD did not have a good game. For all his ability, if you need 18 shots to get 20 points you are not effective scoring the ball. If you miss multiple layups (point blank) it's going to hurt your team. When you play 34 minutes and end with 5 rebounds as the best big on the court, you're not getting it done. Just not a good game.

More disappointing is Kopp and Stewart. Combined 60 minutes played results in 7 points, 2 rebounds, 6 fouls. That can't happen. You could argue there will be games when guys are off, but IU doesn't have the bench scoring to allow this sort of no show from two starters. Rob made a few nice shots but the bench in general is not helping. Maybe Galloway can bring some intangibles to help, but it's asking a lot from a Soph coming off injury to turn things around.

As a team, if you only get 12 free throws for a game you're not attacking the basket. Then you look at the team and very few guys can get to the basket and when they do you end up with some odd no chance shots. X is not finishing. Bates is throwing up one crazy shot after another. Geronimo knocked down 2 of 3 but he was dead set on shooting as soon as he touched the ball. Who can hit a mid-range jumper? Who can get to the basket with a quality shot when outside shots aren't falling? Who can get to the FT line and knock'em down when your team is struggling? I do not see an answer for any of those questions.

Sadly, everything above is mostly offense. related What happened yesterday exposed the defense as well. Too many guys got lost and could not recover to wide open shooters. Granted, Dread hit some hope for the best threes but that seems to be the norm when playing Indiana. The bigger issue has continued for years - late in the clock the other teams works the ball to get a guard matched up with a big like Race covering outside and they come up with a jumper. Race is all heart but he still is not quick enough to move and stop a shot or drive. OSU has lived off that for years against Race, so we will see it a lot on Thursday. 

I don't have answers but my first thought is you can't have Kopp and Stewart on the court together if they are not getting and hitting shots. Better off having Geronimo (defense/rebound), Bates (defense/drive) , or Rob (defense/point) out there with Kopp or Stewart as your shooter and everyone else attacks the rim.

 

Think your point that Kopp and Stewart not playing together is a good one.

[IowaHoosierFan]

16 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I'm sorry I don't have time to address all of this with my thoughts. I will sum up that sitting down. With Coach Knight several years ago and him saying that kids have to learn how to win as being on of the best pieces of advice that he could give to young coaches I hold that pretty closely.  There is a huge difference in hoping to win and in trying not to lose. I stick with its a process. Winning in the BIG is hard and we need to start closing out some of these games. When you are not uses to winning on this level it's hard to expect to win. 

You make valid points and I can see them. I am just giving my opinion as a not very good former coach.😀

Sorry, didn't mean to come off like i was saying you don't know what you're doing as a coach.  I just have a different opinion on why we aren't very good at this point

[Billingsley99]

19 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Sorry, didn't mean to come off like i was saying you don't know what you're doing as a coach.  I just have a different opinion on why we aren't very good at this point

No no no, that never came across just been my longtime belief.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

Although I did not watch yesterdays game, I did watch a Youtube video by someone that does a lot of analysis of Indiana sports teams. Pacers, Colts, IU, Butler, and Purdont. In it, he mentioned something about Indiana has too many players trying to get "their points". He mentioned XJ in particular.

To those who watched the game, did anybody notice this?

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Although I did not watch yesterdays game, I did watch a Youtube video by someone that does a lot of analysis of Indiana sports teams. Pacers, Colts, IU, Butler, and Purdont. In it, he mentioned something about Indiana has too many players trying to get "their points". He mentioned XJ in particular.

To those who watched the game, did anybody notice this?

Not really

[Hoosier51]

23 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Although I did not watch yesterdays game, I did watch a Youtube video by someone that does a lot of analysis of Indiana sports teams. Pacers, Colts, IU, Butler, and Purdont. In it, he mentioned something about Indiana has too many players trying to get "their points". He mentioned XJ in particular.

To those who watched the game, did anybody notice this?

 I didn't see that at all. In the game yesterday the second most shots after Trayce was X with 9. Those two might sometimes force a shot, but they are also the Hoosiers two most aggresive players and sometimes when the team is flat they probably think they have to so the team will get going.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Hoosier51