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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe we need to come to the realization that we will not get back to what we were from 73-94.  We are on our 6th coach and 5th AD and none have totally turned us around.  We had one coach when it came to coaching was good but he brought in drug users and pimps.

If that’s your solution, then why are you wasting your time on message boards. I hope like hell that nobody else around IU Basketball has anything remotely close to this attitude. No offense, but I’ll never stop expecting or wanting the best in anything I do. 

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5 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

If that’s your solution, then why are you wasting your time on message boards. I hope like hell that nobody else around IU Basketball has anything remotely close to this attitude. No offense, but I’ll never stop expecting or wanting the best in anything I do. 

Because I can still enjoy the season even if it does not lead to a championship.  We will see in the next few years how some other top programs deal with losing a once in a lifetime coach.  We have seen other really good programs go from championship caliber programs to just being good programs.  UCLA win 1 championship since Wooden and later found out the coach was crooked.

You day everything you do you expect the best but you are not part of the program.  No matter how much we as fans want to be back on top we have little to do with that 

Edited by IU Scott
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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

I think college basketball has changed over the years and we have not adapted as well.  Recruiting is so different now where it is more national.  Some of it can be old timers like myself who don't like change and want to keep the same traditions.  The candy stripes, AH and other things that can change that can help get more modern.

I had to wipe my eyes and re-read this post. haha

Finally agree with you Scott! Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like you are coming around to the idea that you have resisted and others have endlessly debated with you on this board for years: a modern approach to the game. 

 

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3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe we need to come to the realization that we will not get back to what we were from 73-94.  We are on our 6th coach and 5th AD and none have totally turned us around.  We had one coach when it came to coaching was good but he brought in drug users and pimps.

I don’t know what you heard about me 🎶 

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32 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I had to wipe my eyes and re-read this post. haha

Finally agree with you Scott! Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like you are coming around to the idea that you have resisted and others have endlessly debated with you on this board for years: a modern approach to the game. 

 

Yes and no.  I think we need to improve the image of IU basketball and the game day atmosphere. No, I don't want us to just shoot 40 3's a game and just shoot layups.  I want an uptempo and free flowing offense that can score from all three areas on the court.

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46 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Disagree that Wisconsin is less talented. Also, to take into consideration, both Wisconsin and Syracuse have coaches who have been there long enough to get their way of doing things in place. Players there have worked under one system since they arrived, knew what to expect when they arrived, and were recruited to fit those systems. Zero of our top 6 players (the starters and Rob) were recruited to play in CMW's system. All of our top 6 players played in a system materially different than what has been installed by CMW and staff. Not pointed directly at you, but what realistic fan really thought that guys that had to learn this system, and unlearn their past, were going to come in and be consistent game in and game out. 

This season is the starting grounds for hopefully sustained success. This season is for establishing what the program will eventually be known for. Any start up is going to have fits and starts. Steps forward, and steps backwards. Rarely, has a new coach come in, especially when the predecessors left such a mess, and won right away. We have seen improvement. Last year's team would have never fought to overtime v Syracuse and would have been blown out by Wisconsin. May not be the results we all want, but imo a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves and the process. 

It’s early, but for the moment, MN looks to be ahead of IU. They have a new coach and eleven new players. A few days ago, Hummel was asked about the teams with new coaches. He was impressed with MN but said IN was suspect due to the weak schedule. He also said the collapse against WI was cause to be concerned 

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26 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

It’s early, but for the moment, MN looks to be ahead of IU. They have a new coach and eleven new players. A few days ago, Hummel was asked about the teams with new coaches. He was impressed with MN but said IN was suspect due to the weak schedule. He also said the collapse against WI was cause to be concerned 

Maybe he should look at Minnesota schedule since there two best Mon conference games were against Pitt and Miss. St.

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Serious question or observation.

purdue & IU recruit a lot of the same players (Blake Wesley😳) so I don’t buy into IU not having talent 

I also don’t buy into MP & Brantley coach a big man and he automatically becomes a star 

Practice is the coaches time 

the game is the players time 

off season is when players improve the most if they put the work in?

 

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe he should look at Minnesota schedule since there two best Mon conference games were against Pitt and Miss. St.

I get that, and as I said it's early. But they have a win at Michigan (granted not looking quite as impressive now, but still a win in Ann Arbor). Also, those wins against Pitt and MS St were road games. So they are 3-0 on the road vs 0-3. Granted Pitt isn't good (although they did win at St Johns and lost by 1 at VA), but MS ST is #37 in the NET and MI is 43. MN is 2-1 in Quad 1 games. Resume so far is much better than IU. 

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9 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Honest question.  What do you think is the reason for 30 years of inconsistent and subpar basketball is?  Bad hires?  Administration mismanagement?  To focused on "Indiana" players?  Not enough "Indiana" Players?  University Culture? Conspiracy to kill IU basketball at the highest levels as retaliation for Bon Knight?

 

I think all that played a part, the admin just decided to coast on past accomplishments thinking Indiana was going to Indiana and it hurt us.

Also we were not committed to playing the recruiting "game" of the late 90's up through NIL.  I think we may have dipped our toe in from time to time, but the programs we used to compare ourselves too went all in.

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On 1/2/2022 at 4:41 PM, Seeking6 said:

Apathy? Never. Apathy is when you don't race to a message board to post a new topic after the 3rd conference game in a season. Frustrated? Sure. Ticked at some of our guys? Sure....but apathy? That's for the professional teams in my life....never my college teams.

Of course everyone has their own opinion but never apathy with IU Hoops. Ticked, pissed,etc...but never that. Just my two cents.

 

Agreed. If anything, I believe most of the mislabeled 'apathy' is just a mental trick to convince certain people (admittedly me at times) that they never really cared, when in fact they probably cared waaaay more than they're willing to admit. We have expectations (hope?) that things will play out a certain way, because we are invested.

Apathy doesn't bring people to post on a message board, even if it's to complain. They/we obviously care.

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3 hours ago, btownqb said:

We have played 13 games 😳

I'm surprised it took 3 days for your obligatorily ironic "look how dumb this comment is" response. 

 

13 games is nearly half the season and we still look like Archie Miller is coaching here when we play anyone below average or better. 

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I want to be optimistic, but what this team lacks is a true leader with a “refuse to lose” mentality. Unfortunately, it seems that role has been given to TJD by default, simply because he’s an All American. But as good as he is, he’s just not a true leader. It’s hard to win the tough games without a guy that will set the tone for the rest of the team, and we just don’t have that right now. The really good teams have a go to guy that consistently makes the big plays when the game is on the line, and that’s what we’re missing.

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11 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

I'm surprised it took 3 days for your obligatorily ironic "look how dumb this comment is" response. 

 

13 games is nearly half the season and we still look like Archie Miller is coaching here when we play anyone below average or better. 

I stated a fact. I apologize for not being more dramatic. It's not just you that has watched the past 20+ seasons. 

Edited by btownqb
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On 1/3/2022 at 2:48 PM, rico said:

When the University kicked Knight out the door a piece of my fandom went with him.  And I don't ever think I can get that piece back before I die.

The obsession with him is very odd. My age plays a part in that opinion, I realize. 

But, he wasn't all that good at the end and the university should have fired him when they saw the video of him choking Reed. 

Personally, I think fans still clinging to Bob Knight, especially for as long as some of them did, has been easily as detrimental to our program progressing, as anything. 

Also, dump the bigs... play 5 guards if you have to. Our skill level is no where close to good enough. We have 1.5 dudes that can break you down off the dribble. It's like I'm watching an early 90s basketball game. Going to take more than 13 games for our staff to fix that. 

Edited by btownqb
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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

The obsession with him is very odd. My age plays a part in that opinion, I realize. 

But, he wasn't all that good at the end and the university should have fired him when they saw the video of him choking Reed. 

Personally, I think fans still clinging to Bob Knight, especially for as long as some of them did, has been easily as detrimental to our program progressing, as anything. 

Also, dump the bigs... play 5 guards if you have to. Our skill level is no where close to good enough. We have 1.5 dudes that can break you down off the dribble. It's like I'm watching an early 90s basketball game. Going to take more than 13 games for our staff to fix that. 

I don't think we cling to Bob Knight any more than North Carolina fans cling to Dean Smith by hiring Guthridge, Dougherty, Williams, and Davis, or Duke is by hiring Scheyer to replace Coach K...It's one way of running a program that continues a legacy and a way a program does things (for good or bad)...

IU tried going the loyalty route (Davis), the best coach with a shady background route (Sampson), the solid, been to the Final 4 route (Crean), and the hot, new up and comer route (Miller), and none of them have sustained the early legacy that Knight put in place...

I say early because, in my eyes, there are 3 distinct Knight eras for anyone that was around then...

There was the Bob Knight "Perfect" era...Started with his first Final 4 team (1973) and that's what hooked a lot of us old timers...He won, and he ran the program the "right" way by graduating players and insuring they were solid citizens...We appreciated that because we had all lived through the substandard 60s for IU basketball...We had been a powerhouse under McCracken, but the 60 were lean for IU...

image.png.8ed6cae5dd77870226bcd9384d68f3d5.png

Knight came in and in his second year had us in a Final 4...Third year had us in a tie for the Big 10 title (lost in a playoff to Michigan), went undefeated in 75 and probably would have won it all if not for Scott May's arm, and DID go undefeated in 76...What IU basketball fan wouldn't like that?

The was followed by the Bob Knight "Not Quite Perfect, but Good Enough" era from 77-94. Still great teams and great players, went to the NCAA Tournament every year but 3 (77, 79, and 85) and won 2 NCs. 

And then the "Bob Knight Not good Enough by his Own Standards." RMK had become the WHOLE program...He once said, "I didn't change...the kids did." But I think he did change in reaction to the new breed of kids he was getting. We had our best players transferring. Knight didn't have the relationship with those kids like he did with the Buckners, Mays, Woodsons, Thomases, and Alfords. I watched one of AJ Guyton's shows on Youtube, and he even says he didn't have a relationship with Coach that those players did, and he wished he did. Think about who showed up and were center stage for RMK's return to SSAH...Very few of the kids from his last 4 or 5 years....

You younger fellas are dismissive of the man because all you really saw were the later teams that didn't stack up...And that's fine...But I think bringing back a coach that understood what IU basketball really was during the successful times was the only route we hadn't tried, and Dolson understood that...

So why not give it a try? Dolson had been there in the 80s when IU was still among the elites...Our star was fading, and we want it back...

And I hope Coach Woodson can get us there...

Edited by IUFLA
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2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I don't think we cling to Bob Knight any more than North Carolina fans cling to Dean Smith by hiring Guthridge, Dougherty, Williams, and Davis, or Duke is by hiring Scheyer to replace Coach K...It's one way of running a program that continues a legacy and a way a program does things (for good or bad)...

IU tried going the loyalty route (Davis), the best coach with a shady background route (Sampson), the solid, been to the Final 4 route (Crean), and the hot, new up and comer route (Miller), and none of them have sustained the early legacy that Knight put in place...

I say early because, in my eyes, there are 3 distinct Knight eras for anyone that was around then...

There was the Bob Knight "Perfect" era...Started with his first Final 4 team (1973) and that's what hooked a lot of us old timers...He won, and he ran the program the "right" way by graduating players and insuring they were solid citizens...We appreciated that because we had all lived through the substandard 60s for IU basketball...We had been a powerhouse under McCracken, but the 60 were lean for IU...

image.png.8ed6cae5dd77870226bcd9384d68f3d5.png

Knight came in and in his second year had us in a Final 4...Third year had us in a tie for the Big 10 title (lost in a playoff to Michigan), went undefeated in 75 and probably would have won it all if not for Scott May's arm, and DID go undefeated in 76...What IU basketball fan wouldn't like that?

The was followed by the Bob Knight "Not Quite Perfect, but Good Enough" era from 77-94. Still great teams and great players, went to the NCAA Tournament every year but 3 (77, 79, and 85) and won 2 NCs. 

And then the "Bob Knight Not good Enough by his Own Standards." RMK had become the WHOLE program...He once said, "I didn't change...the kids did." But I think he did change in reaction to the new breed of kids he was getting. We had our best players transferring. Knight didn't have the relationship with those kids like he did with the Buckners, Mays, Woodsons, Thomases, and Alfords. I watched one of AJ Guyton's shows on Youtube, and he even says he didn't have a relationship with Coach that those players did, and he wished he did. Think about who showed up and were center stage for RMK's return to SSAH...Very few of the kids from his last 4 or 5 years....

You youinger fellas are dismissive of the man because all you really saw were the later teams that didn't stack up...And that's fine...But I think bringing back a coach that understood what IU basketball really was during the successful times was the only route we hadn't tried, and Dolson understood that...

So why not give it a try? Dolson had been there in the 80s when IU was still among the elites...Our star was fading, and we want it back...

And I hope Coach Woodson can get us there...

Hold on, I love Woodson. My comments were not to speak poorly, or whatever, of him at all. I just flat out don't overly care about BK, in regards to IUBB, and I realize that some believe they are synonymous, but they aren't for anyone under probably 31 or 32. They certainly aren't for any recruit we are after right now. Just let him gooooooo. I'm not dismissive of him at all, but he has no relevance to our program now. 

I am 100% glad Woodson is our coach, though, but I don't believe when or what Indiana "was" during his time here matters even in the least bit. I'm glad he is our coach because we are going to modernize the way we do everything, especially offensively. Woodson was beyond qualified for the job. Again, thrilled he's the coach, not because he's a former Knight guy though. Him being from Indy is a big plus for me though, plus the staff he has assembled is A+. 

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2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Just let him gooooooo. I'm not dismissive of him at all, but he has no relevance to our program now. 

Try telling that one to the 17,000+ that showed up when he came to SSAH last year...

Plus, I hear the recruits all the time talk about the 5 banners and the history...Well, without RMK and the banners he coached us to, we're more Cincinnati, San Francisco, or Oklahoma A&M than considered a historical blue blood...
 

Edited by IUFLA
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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

The obsession with him is very odd. My age plays a part in that opinion, I realize. 

But, he wasn't all that good at the end and the university should have fired him when they saw the video of him choking Reed. 

Personally, I think fans still clinging to Bob Knight, especially for as long as some of them did, has been easily as detrimental to our program progressing, as anything. 

Also, dump the bigs... play 5 guards if you have to. Our skill level is no where close to good enough. We have 1.5 dudes that can break you down off the dribble. It's like I'm watching an early 90s basketball game. Going to take more than 13 games for our staff to fix that. 

jSMH

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