Apathy

[btownqb]

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Try telling that one to the 17,000+ that showed up when he came to SSAH last year...

Plus, I hear the recruits all the time talk about the 5 banners and the history...Well, without RMK and the banners he coached us to, we're more Cincinnati, San Francisco, or Oklahoma A&M than considered a historical blue blood...
 

AND WE LOST!!!! 

I honestly don't even know where this argument is right now. RMK great coach, I agree. Did a lot of great things at IU, I agree. Won a lot of games, helped a lot of people, I agree. 

He was fired in like 2000 lol It's overrrrrrr. How can you still be THIS obsessed with him? How? 

[rico]

15 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Hold on, I love Woodson. My comments were not to speak poorly, or whatever, of him at all. I just flat out don't overly care about BK, in regards to IUBB, and I realize that some believe they are synonymous, but they aren't for anyone under probably 31 or 32. They certainly aren't for any recruit we are after right now. Just let him gooooooo. I'm not dismissive of him at all, but he has no relevance to our program now. 

I am 100% glad Woodson is our coach, though, but I don't believe when or what Indiana "was" during his time here matters even in the least bit. I'm glad he is our coach because we are going to modernize the way we do everything, especially offensively. Woodson was beyond qualified for the job. Again, thrilled he's the coach, not because he's a former Knight guy though. Him being from Indy is a big plus for me though, plus the staff he has assembled is A+. 

JSMH...again.

[btownqb]

Just now, rico said:

jSMH

21 years since he coached at Indiana 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, rico said:

JSMH...again.

Don't get mad at the truth. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

21 years since he coached at Indiana 

Yep, take those banners down.  Take McCracken's down as well.

[IUFLA]

Just now, btownqb said:

AND WE LOST!!!! 

I honestly don't even know where this argument is right now. RMK great coach, I agree. Did a lot of great things at IU, I agree. Won a lot of games, helped a lot of people, I agree. 

He was fired in like 2000 lol It's overrrrrrr. How can you still be THIS obsessed with him? How? 

Come on man...Losing to Purdue had nothing to do with that appearance...Nothing...

And I think I adequately explained why older fans think of RMK the way they do...Do we see his warts? Of course we do. And we acknowledge them. I think RMK fell prey to the "power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely" saying. 

Yes, he was fired. But I guarantee you there are a ton more IU fans now because of what he accomplished at IU. You call it an "obssession" but it's anything but...It's an admiration for what he accomplished, and, at least in the beginning how he accomplished it...He's tied to this program forever, and nothing will change that...

[btownqb]

16 minutes ago, rico said:

Yep, take those banners down.  Take McCracken's down as well.

Not what I'm talking about, at all. 

[btownqb]

20 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Come on man...Losing to Purdue had nothing to do with that appearance...Nothing...

And I think I adequately explained why older fans think of RMK the way they do...Do we see his warts? Of course we do. And we acknowledge them. I think RMK fell prey to the "power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely" saying. 

Yes, he was fired. But I guarantee you there are a ton more IU fans now because of what he accomplished at IU. You call it an "obssession" but it's anything but...It's an admiration for what he accomplished, and, at least in the beginning how he accomplished it...He's tied to this program forever, and nothing will change that...

Not what I'm saying. 

I can't believe this has turned into a Knight discussion. Look post I was responding to. The post was "When Knight was fired, I lost interest" essentially. That is what I was responding to. 

But, either way, ultimately... 20 years ago, let it go. 

[rico]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Not what I'm talking about, at all. 

LOL...yeah.  I lived everyone of the Knight years.  And more often than not each year was enjoyable.  I don't have much of an ear for anyone dissing him that wasn't around when he was the best in the business.

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, rico said:

LOL...yeah.  I lived everyone of the Knight years.  And more often than not each year was enjoyable.  I don't have much of an ear for anyone dissing him that wasn't around when he was the best in the business.

That's the problem... You think I'm dissing him, I'm not. I just don't care about 1976, anymore.  I'm worried about 2026. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by btownqb

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, rico said:

LOL...yeah.  I lived everyone of the Knight years.  And more often than not each year was enjoyable.  I don't have much of an ear for anyone dissing him that wasn't around when he was the best in the business.

He's not "dissing" Knight.

At some point you have to evolve. Honor the past, absolutely, but don't let it prevent you from evolving and adapting to what is happening currently and in the future. I think IU as a program and fanbase has struggled with that over the last 20 years to the programs detriment. 

[jojo123]

Question. If Indiana were to recruit and play 85% White players would the sports world scream racist? 

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

But, he wasn't all that good at the end and the university should have fired him when they saw the video of him choking Reed. 

Personally, I think fans still clinging to Bob Knight, especially for as long as some of them did, has been easily as detrimental to our program progressing, as anything. 

Maybe your phrasing triggered at least some of my response...My fandom for IU has never wavered from the 60s until now...Regardless of how well or how poorly IU performed, I still watched and still rooted...I wasn't clinging to anything except the program I'd rooted for since I was a kid...

I know many people who feel as @rico does, but I don't think it's all grounded in the fact that RMK is gone...it's that we tried to go the opposite direction from RMK by deemphasizing college sports and winning by the administration, and the control a coach had over the program at the expense of results...That turned a lot of people against the administration and in the end, some the basketball program itself...

If anything was detrimental to IU's basketball program in my humble opinion, is that the administration treated RMK like a cancer for years and wouldn't even consider a coach that was attached to his legacy...Mike Woodson even said when the job came open when Miller was hired, the administration didn't consider him a viable candidate, even though they did reach out...

We've come full circle...So let's just try to enjoy it...

 

[IUFLA]

15 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He's not "dissing" Knight.

At some point you have to evolve. Honor the past, absolutely, but don't let it prevent you from evolving and adapting to what is happening currently and in the future. I think IU as a program and fanbase has struggled with that over the last 20 years to the programs detriment. 

No, but his wording "dissed" a lot of folks that consider Knight an integral part of our program...Saying people "cling" and have an "obssession" isn't exactly describing it correctly, at least it isn't to me, and I explained why...

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Maybe your phrasing triggered at least some of my response...My fandom for IU has never wavered from the 60s until now...Regardless of how well or how poorly IU performed, I still watched and still rooted...I wasn't clinging to anything except the program I'd rooted for since I was a kid...

I know many people who feel as @rico does, but I don't think it's all grounded in the fact that RMK is gone...it's that we tried to go the opposite direction from RMK by deemphasizing college sports and winning by the administration, and the control a coach had over the program at the expense of results...That turned a lot of people against the administration and in the end, some the basketball program itself...

If anything was detrimental to IU's basketball program in my humble opinion, is that the administration treated RMK like a cancer for years and wouldn't even consider a coach that was attached to his legacy...Mike Woodson even said when the job came open when Miller was hired, the administration didn't consider him a viable candidate, even though they did reach out...

We've come full circle...So let's just try to enjoy it...

 

1. I was 9 years old when he was fired, so I have no knowledge of how the Admin treat RMK for years. None, literally I know nothing about that. 

2. I am glad Woodson is our coach. 100% happy. Him being a part of Knight's teams had nothing to do with it, though. Dude is stupid qualified for the job, and I wanted a more NBA approach to things. I have literally been behind this hire from the beginning, and I still am. The admin was stupid to not consider him before now. Please stop responding like I have a problem with the Woodson hire. I was simply responding to one Knight post. I'm not upset about anything other than Armaan Franklin leaving. We need more dudes that can get their own off the bounce. 

4. You talk about the program you had as a kid, I've never had that program at all. Or even close to it.

Sorry for the list, but it was the easiest way to respond, I felt. 

[btownqb]

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

No, but his wording "dissed" a lot of folks that consider Knight an integral part of our program...Saying people "cling" and have an "obssession" isn't exactly describing it correctly, at least it isn't to me, and I explained why...

If you can't let something go after 21 years.... it might be an obsession. 

[btownqb]

21 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

Question. If Indiana were to recruit and play 85% White players would the sports world scream racist? 

I bet this triggers less people then possibly saying a foul word about RMK. 

[Steubenhoosier]

I lived through all the Knight years as well. All the ups and downs. 

What I take from that era, besides the fact that we won 3 championships and lots of conference crowns, is that we were relevant. I understand that the past is the past, and that we need to live in the here and now. Unfortunately, for the younger crowd on here, their  recent past has been full of irrelevancy. That, imo is where the feelings of despondency lie. Regardless of whether his teams were good or bad, Knight had built up the cache throughout his career that anything regarding the team and program was news. What happened at IU mattered. What Knight said or did (good or bad) mattered. We/he moved the needle. 

We have not had that position of prominence for quite some time. Sure, Crean had a couple of good teams. However his personality and quirks were a detriment to the program, imo. We have not had a national presence forever. Not like it was back in Knight's tenure. Not like it should be for IU basketball.

I don't think that us old-timers are necessarily holding onto the past and not wanting to live in the moment. We simply have seen the program at it's pinnacle, and want leadership to bring us back to relevancy.  The detriment to the program lies primarily on university leadership not wanting to let go of control, not wanting basketball to overshadow the school, much more than fans holding onto the glory days.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Steubenhoosier

[IUFLA]

Just now, btownqb said:

If you can't let something go after 21 years.... it might be an obsession. 

I'm not sure what am I supposed to be letting go of...

 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I'm not sure what am I supposed to be letting go of...

 

Again.. THE ORGINAL POST I QUOTED 

[Proud2BAHoosier]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I don't think we cling to Bob Knight any more than North Carolina fans cling to Dean Smith by hiring Guthridge, Dougherty, Williams, and Davis, or Duke is by hiring Scheyer to replace Coach K...It's one way of running a program that continues a legacy and a way a program does things (for good or bad)...

IU tried going the loyalty route (Davis), the best coach with a shady background route (Sampson), the solid, been to the Final 4 route (Crean), and the hot, new up and comer route (Miller), and none of them have sustained the early legacy that Knight put in place...

I say early because, in my eyes, there are 3 distinct Knight eras for anyone that was around then...

There was the Bob Knight "Perfect" era...Started with his first Final 4 team (1973) and that's what hooked a lot of us old timers...He won, and he ran the program the "right" way by graduating players and insuring they were solid citizens...We appreciated that because we had all lived through the substandard 60s for IU basketball...We had been a powerhouse under McCracken, but the 60 were lean for IU...

Knight came in and in his second year had us in a Final 4...Third year had us in a tie for the Big 10 title (lost in a playoff to Michigan), went undefeated in 75 and probably would have won it all if not for Scott May's arm, and DID go undefeated in 76...What IU basketball fan wouldn't like that?

The was followed by the Bob Knight "Not Quite Perfect, but Good Enough" era from 77-94. Still great teams and great players, went to the NCAA Tournament every year but 3 (77, 79, and 85) and won 2 NCs. 

And then the "Bob Knight Not good Enough by his Own Standards." RMK had become the WHOLE program...He once said, "I didn't change...the kids did." But I think he did change in reaction to the new breed of kids he was getting. We had our best players transferring. Knight didn't have the relationship with those kids like he did with the Buckners, Mays, Woodsons, Thomases, and Alfords. I watched one of AJ Guyton's shows on Youtube, and he even says he didn't have a relationship with Coach that those players did, and he wished he did. Think about who showed up and were center stage for RMK's return to SSAH...Very few of the kids from his last 4 or 5 years....

You younger fellas are dismissive of the man because all you really saw were the later teams that didn't stack up...And that's fine...But I think bringing back a coach that understood what IU basketball really was during the successful times was the only route we hadn't tried, and Dolson understood that...

So why not give it a try? Dolson had been there in the 80s when IU was still among the elites...Our star was fading, and we want it back...

And I hope Coach Woodson can get us there...

Can I "Like" this post x 1,000?

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I lived all the Knight years as well. All the ups and downs. 

What I take from that era, besides the fact that we won 3 championships and lots of conference crowns, is that we were relevant. I understand that the past is the past, and that we need to live in the here and now. Unfortunately, for the younger crowd on here, there recent past has been full of irrelevancy. That, imo is where the feelings of despondency lie. Regardless of whether his teams were good or bad, Knight had built up the cache throughout his career that anything regarding the team and program was news. What happened at IU mattered. What Knight said or did (good or bad) mattered. We/he moved the needle. 

We have not had that position of prominence for quite some time. Sure, Crean had a couple of good teams. However his personality and quirks were a detriment to the program, imo. We have not had a national presence forever. Not like it was back in Knight's tenure. Not like it should be for IU basketball.

I don't think that us old-timers are necessarily holding onto the past and not wanting to live in the moment. We simply have seen the program at it's pinnacle, and want leadership to bring us back to relevancy.  The detriment to the program lies primarily on university leadership not wanting to let go of control, not wanting basketball to overshadow the school, much more than fans holding onto the glory days.

Yeah, I don't see it that way, but I think this is a really good post. I'm not conveying myself overly well here, and I can't quite put my finger on why just yet... but just I'm tired of hearing about RMK doesn't mean I don't appreciate and understand what he was able to accomplish. 21 years though, man, that's a long, long time. 

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

1. I was 9 years old when he was fired, so I have no knowledge of how the Admin treat RMK for years. None, literally I know nothing about that. 

It happened...The administration wanted to push RMK as far away from Indiana and Indiana basketball as far as possible...And that was hard for a lot of people to swallow...Subsequent decisions, most notably President Adam Herbert over ruling AD Greenspan hiring John Beilein and instead pushing for Kelvin Sampson, who was already running from the NCAA over violations at Oklahoma, let people know that the administration wasn't acting in the best interest of the program...

[kyhoosier29]

29 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

Question. If Indiana were to recruit and play 85% White players would the sports world scream racist? 

I don’t think IU fans give a hoot who we recruit as long as we’re relevant and/or win. The best players combined with the best people is who I hope we recruit. No matter white, black, purple, green, yellow, etc. IF we’re only recruiting a certain color of kids bc of their color, that’s ridiculous. We’re beyond that nonsense. 

[btownqb]

Just now, IUFLA said:

It happened...The administration wanted to push RMK as far away from Indiana and Indiana basketball as far as possible...And that was hard for a lot of people to swallow...Subsequent decisions, most notably President Adam Herbert over ruling AD Greenspan hiring John Beilein and instead pushing for Kelvin Sampson, who was already running from the NCAA over violations at Oklahoma, let people know that the administration wasn't acting in the best interest of the program...

I assume I know why that happened. But again... that was, what? 17 years ago ish?