Nebraska II Pre Game Thread

[ba43056]

8 hours ago, Muddy River said:

Ahhh, the great but not often mentioned Horace Graham.  How could we forget?  

I assumed Herb Graham,,,but I think you're right it was Horace

 

[ba43056]

I'll get this put there early. 

Kopp.....can't defend any position on the floor in the first unit. We look better with Galloway on the floor. 

I'm going to load that into my clipboard so I can just log on and hit paste. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by ba43056

[3Ballin]

15 hours ago, IU878176 said:

Man that team recruited talent.  7 IU guys played at least 20 minutes in that game. 4/7 were McDonalds All-Americans, another guy was a Parade All American plus Cheaney.  

"Oh ya, and that Cheaney kid" 🤣🤣  When Cheaney is an afterthought about a college basketball team, its guna be pretty though. 🤣

[3Ballin]

1 hour ago, ba43056 said:

I assumed Herb Graham,,,but I think you're right it was Horace

 

That's Moonlight Graham's brother isnt it?

[tdhoosier]

8 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i do get what you're saying but 300 other college level teams figure out how to sub their starters out and when to do it.  I am sure we'll figure it out and while i agree the 5 man second team can play, they don't move the needle forward.  We don't extent leads with them.  We hold server or lose slightly.  If we subbed 1 or 2 at a time, we might be able to maintain the forward momentum

I think what is not being said is that the drop off in overall talent on the floor gives the ‘second string’ LESS of a chance to succeed (when all 5 are on the floor at the same time) because, for example, there’s not a TJD drawing double teams or a Parker Stewart spreading out the defense.  

It’s not a coincidence that Galloway and Rob play better with a few starters on the floor. I also think it’s fair to assume that Scoop has been playing horrible because usually when he’s on the floor he’s the only legit scoring threat. (Let’s also remember he is a Freshman)

Like you suggest, why can’t we (for example with the front court) give Race the first blow and sub in Geronimo to play with TJD. Then when TJD needs some rest we bring Race back in….and then eventually sub in Durr for Geronimo? That way, either TJD or Race are always on the floor, which keeps the defense honest. Having Geronimo and Durr in at the same time does not do Geronimo/Durr any favors, it doesn’t do the guards any favors and it doesn’t do the team any favors.

I was not a fan of Woody calling out the bench last week because he really doesn’t put them in a position to succeed. 

Obviously it’s not rocket science because that’s the way all college teams do it. 

This is not sustainable. I’m 100% behind Woody, but this is my main point of criticism. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by tdhoosier

[kyhoosier29]

Vegas thinks we’re going to win by 9. I’m not a bettor …. so how do I bet on Nebraska? On the road by 10 points? Believe that when I see it. 

[Euroclydon]

11 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I would hope that fan support, in the first year of a coaching tenure, is not based on any one game. If that is the case, I think that’s more an indictment of the fans than the program 

I'd like to think that too, but it's not reality. Based on how the fans have reacted over the past few seasons and early this season it's clear the coach, regardless of who it is, no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. Lose at Nebraska to go 0-4 on the road and you'll see fans saying what they've been saying - nothing has changed.

[IowaHoosierFan]

28 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

I'd like to think that too, but it's not reality. Based on how the fans have reacted over the past few seasons and early this season it's clear the coach, regardless of who it is, no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. Lose at Nebraska to go 0-4 on the road and you'll see fans saying what they've been saying - nothing has changed.

This is what happens when you have 25 years of sub par basketball and 5 years of absolute garbage ball with a fanbase that used remembers being considered a blue blood program and national championships.

I believe CMW is a good coach and will show to be a good hire BUT he was not the big name splash hire that most fans wanted.  He was not on 90% of the casual fans radar.  He was not Donovan, Beard or Brad Stevens that most wanted.  He doesn't get the benefit of the oh he will get it going  just give him time.  Lots of people still don't trust the Administration to anything meaningful for the basketball program.

This is not a bash on CMW.  I think he has done a fine job so far and is setting the stage for future success.  I wasn't happy about the hire myself, but i think he has done good things for the program so far.  Do i agree with some of the ways he coaches, no, but what do i know lol.

The fans want us to beat the teams we're supposed to beat (historically).  PSU, Nebraska, Rutgers and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, Wisconsin.  Doesn't matter that they are better than they used to be, we're IU and we always took them to the woodshed.  Losing to these teams is unacceptable regardless the coach.  Is it fair to CMW, NOPE but when have fans ever been fair.

Just some random thoughts.  Not arguing with your post specifically.  I just think we need to win the games we're supposed to, regardless of on the road or not.  We're too talented to be giving away games, considering we play so well for at least 1 half of most of them.  Being terrible for a whole game would be better than showing we're really good but then lay an egg over and over.

thanks for attending my ted talk, Jason

[tdhoosier]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I think what is not being said is that the drop off in overall talent on the floor gives the ‘second string’ LESS of a chance to succeed (when all 5 are on the floor at the same time) because, for example, there’s not a TJD drawing double teams or a Parker Stewart spreading out the defense.  

It’s not a coincidence that Galloway and Rob play better with a few starters on the floor. I also think it’s fair to assume that Scoop has been playing horrible because usually when he’s on the floor he’s the only legit scoring threat. (Let’s also remember he is a Freshman)

Like you suggest, why can’t we (for example with the front court) give Race the first blow and sub in Geronimo to play with TJD. Then when TJD needs some rest we bring Race back in….and then eventually sub in Durr for Geronimo? That way, either TJD or Race are always on the floor, which keeps the defense honest. Having Geronimo and Durr in at the same time does not do Geronimo/Durr any favors, it doesn’t do the guards any favors and it doesn’t do the team any favors.

I was not a fan of Woody calling out the bench last week because he really doesn’t put them in a position to succeed. 

Obviously it’s not rocket science because that’s the way all college teams do it. 

This is not sustainable. I’m 100% behind Woody, but this is my main point of criticism. 

I'm officially quoting myself and beating a dead horse.

Below is an example pattern that would also take advantage of the media timeouts. of course this will depend on the team we're playing and the matchups, but you can get the same amount of rest while keeping a strong lineup on the floor:

Starters:
Race
TJD
Kopp
Stewart
XJ

Line up 2: (love this lineup)
Geronimo (for Race)
TJD
Galloway (for Kopp)
Stewart
XJ

Line up 3:
Race (for TJD)
Geronimo
Kopp (for Stewart)
Galloway
Rob (for XJ)

Line up 4:
Durr (for Geronimo)
Race
Kopp
Scoop (for Galloway)
Rob

Line up 5:
Dictated by who is playing well

*10 player rotation
*A legit shooter, post player and ball handler always on the floor
*2 starters always on the floor
*Plenty of rest

It's hard to argue this is any worse than putting the following lineup on the floor for 2-3 minutes:

Durr
Geronimo
Galloway
Scoop
Rob

I'm no basketball savant, but how is this not a no brainer? 


 

[IU Scott]

17 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I'm officially quoting myself and beating a dead horse.

Below is an example pattern that would also take advantage of the media timeouts. of course this will depend on the team we're playing and the matchups, but you can get the same amount of rest while keeping a strong lineup on the floor:

Starters:
Race
TJD
Kopp
Stewart
XJ

Line up 2: (love this lineup)
Geronimo (for Race)
TJD
Galloway (for Kopp)
Stewart
XJ

Line up 3:
Race (for TJD)
Geronimo
Kopp (for Stewart)
Galloway
Rob (for XJ)

Line up 4:
Durr (for Geronimo)
Race
Kopp
Scoop (for Galloway)
Rob

Line up 5:
Dictated by who is playing well

*10 player rotation
*A legit shooter, post player and ball handler always on the floor
*2 starters always on the floor
*Plenty of rest

It's hard to argue this is any worse than putting the following lineup on the floor for 2-3 minutes:

Durr
Geronimo
Galloway
Scoop
Rob

I'm no basketball savant, but how is this not a no brainer? 


 

On #4 why not bring back TJD instead of Durr

[Hoosierfan1215]

2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I think what is not being said is that the drop off in overall talent on the floor gives the ‘second string’ LESS of a chance to succeed (when all 5 are on the floor at the same time) because, for example, there’s not a TJD drawing double teams or a Parker Stewart spreading out the defense.  

It’s not a coincidence that Galloway and Rob play better with a few starters on the floor. I also think it’s fair to assume that Scoop has been playing horrible because usually when he’s on the floor he’s the only legit scoring threat. (Let’s also remember he is a Freshman)

Like you suggest, why can’t we (for example with the front court) give Race the first blow and sub in Geronimo to play with TJD. Then when TJD needs some rest we bring Race back in….and then eventually sub in Durr for Geronimo? That way, either TJD or Race are always on the floor, which keeps the defense honest. Having Geronimo and Durr in at the same time does not do Geronimo/Durr any favors, it doesn’t do the guards any favors and it doesn’t do the team any favors.

I was not a fan of Woody calling out the bench last week because he really doesn’t put them in a position to succeed. 

Obviously it’s not rocket science because that’s the way all college teams do it. 

This is not sustainable. I’m 100% behind Woody, but this is my main point of criticism. 

Amen 

[tdhoosier]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

On #4 why not bring back TJD instead of Durr

Sure, that could work. This is all a hypothetical.....just to show why I'd think a similar 'rotational theory' would yield better results. 

A whole bunch of factors would come into play once the ball hits the court. Who is playing well? Who is playing bad? Is anybody in foul trouble? Will the media timeout allow us to shorten the amount of bench time for TJD? etc.

The main point is that we need one of Race or TJD to always be on the floor. We need a shooting threat (Kopp, Stewart, whoever is hot on a particular night) to always be on the floor. And to have either Rob or XJ always on the floor. Mix and match whomever you like after that. 

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Sure, that could work. This is all a hypothetical.....just to show why I'd think a similar 'rotational theory' would yield better results. 

A whole bunch of factors would come into play once the ball hits the court. Who is playing well? Who is playing bad? Is anybody in foul trouble? Will the media timeout allow us to shorten the amount of bench time for TJD? etc.

The main point is that we need one of Race or TJD to always be on the floor. We need a shooting threat (Kopp, Stewart, whoever is hot on a particular night) to always be on the floor. And to have either Rob or XJ always on the floor. Mix and match whomever you like after that. 

I agree with that but I think you can gain that by playing 8 guys.

[btownqb]

18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I agree with that but I think you can gain that by playing 8 guys.

But why? We want to play more guys than 8. We don't have 8 guys that stick out to play. 

JG, Bates, Leal are all not going to play? 

 

[IUFLA]

Notes from last game against the Huskers...

They shot 38% from the field and 23% from 3 point land. Their 3 leading scorers we're Verge (15), Bryce McGowans and Derrick Walker (8 apiece).

We beat them on the boards 39-30. We turned it over 14 times.

Trayce had 14 points, Tamar had 13 and Race 11 for us. We didn't shoot particularly well (40% overall) but did shoot 36% from 3. 

Our bench accounted for 26 points on 9 of 20 shooting, including 5-11 from 3.

Edited January 17, 2022 by IUFLA

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Notes from last game against the Huskers...

They shot 38% from the field and 23% from 3 point land. Their 3 leading scorers we're Verge (15), Bryce McGowans and Derrick Walker (8 apiece).

We beat them on the boards 39-30. We turned it over 14 times.

Trayce had 14 points, Tamar had 13 and Race 11 for us. We didn't shoot particularly well (40% overall) but did shoot 36% from 3. 

Our bench accounted for 26 points on 9 of 20 shooting, including 5-11 from 3.

But, that was at home.  On the road, we are destined to shoot 19%, including 2-37 from 3.  We will be outrebounded by double digits and give up 33 offensive rebounds to Nebraska. 

The good new is we will only have 3 turnovers.  The bad news is one of those will be a shot clock violation on the last possession of the game and we lose by 1.  Final score 31-30.

[btownqb]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I'm officially quoting myself and beating a dead horse.

Below is an example pattern that would also take advantage of the media timeouts. of course this will depend on the team we're playing and the matchups, but you can get the same amount of rest while keeping a strong lineup on the floor:

Starters:
Race
TJD
Kopp
Stewart
XJ

Line up 2: (love this lineup)
Geronimo (for Race)
TJD
Galloway (for Kopp)
Stewart
XJ

Line up 3:
Race (for TJD)
Geronimo
Kopp (for Stewart)
Galloway
Rob (for XJ)

Line up 4:
Durr (for Geronimo)
Race
Kopp
Scoop (for Galloway)
Rob

Line up 5:
Dictated by who is playing well

*10 player rotation
*A legit shooter, post player and ball handler always on the floor
*2 starters always on the floor
*Plenty of rest

It's hard to argue this is any worse than putting the following lineup on the floor for 2-3 minutes:

Durr
Geronimo
Galloway
Scoop
Rob

I'm no basketball savant, but how is this not a no brainer? 


 

Because you've had TG hurt, Bates out, RP/XJ in foul trouble and both with up and down play. There a lot of variables disregarded here, but I still don't see why this is THAT big of a deal. 

I went back and looked at all the +/-. The bench was whipped TH, no doubt.

Heading into the last game:

Durr was -1 counting the first 5 conference games and the ND game. Our last 6 "big games". 

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Notes from last game against the Huskers...

They shot 38% from the field and 23% from 3 point land. Their 3 leading scorers we're Verge (15), Bryce McGowans and Derrick Walker (8 apiece).

We beat them on the boards 39-30. We turned it over 14 times.

Trayce had 14 points, Tamar had 13 and Race 11 for us. We didn't shoot particularly well (40% overall) but did shoot 36% from 3. 

Our bench accounted for 26 points on 9 of 20 shooting, including 5-11 from 3.

The bench really got us going that game, in the first half. 

[IUFLA]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Final score 31-30.

So you're taking Nebraska -1? 😁

[tdhoosier]

11 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Because you've had TG hurt, Bates out, RP/XJ in foul trouble and both with up and down play. There a lot of variables disregarded here, but I still don't see why this is THAT big of a deal. 

I went back and looked at all the +/-. The bench was whipped TH, no doubt.

Heading into the last game:

Durr was -1 counting the first 5 conference games and the ND game. Our last 6 "big games". 

It's a big deal because when the mass bench substitution comes in it most often stops momentum, it hinders the development and confidence of those bench players and gives an excuse for Woody to not play them in the second half when the starters are so tired that they can't get a rebound. 

But agree to disagree.....that's just the way I see it. 

Again, I don't want the rotation shortened. I want our bench players to get minutes. I'm not saying any of these guys are bad players or aren't deserving, BUT they aren't getting put in a position to succeed. B1G defenses have been and will continue to smother that lineup. 

[btownqb]

4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

It's a big deal because when the mass bench substitution comes in it most often stops momentum, it hinders the development and confidence of those bench players and gives an excuse for Woody to not play them in the second half when the starters are so tired that they can't get a rebound. 

But agree to disagree.....that's just the way I see it. 

Again, I don't want the rotation shortened. I want our bench players to get minutes. I'm not saying any of these guys are bad players or aren't deserving, BUT they aren't getting put in a position to succeed. B1G defenses have been and will continue to smother that lineup. 

But we've only seen that lineup overly struggle, once. I don't see it as a big deal at all.  

[btownqb]

Biggest week of basketball we've had in awhile. 3 games in 7 days. 

[Maud'Dib]

Seeing how we tend to have a large drop off, I am beginning to wonder why we still have so many players in the rotation.  Why cant we play our best guys longer?  The womens team basically plays 6 players (when they are healthy), and several play the entire game.  

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Maud'Dib said:

Seeing how we tend to have a large drop off, I am beginning to wonder why we still have so many players in the rotation.  Why cant we play our best guys longer?  The womens team basically plays 6 players (when they are healthy), and several play the entire game.  

My wife tells me women are tougher than men.  

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, Maud'Dib said:

Seeing how we tend to have a large drop off, I am beginning to wonder why we still have so many players in the rotation.  Why cant we play our best guys longer?  The womens team basically plays 6 players (when they are healthy), and several play the entire game.  

We haven't had that big of a drop off though.

That's not the preference, the way the women are having to do it, and the men's 2nd and 3rd best players, comparatively, aren't as good as the women's. 

The women are doing it out necessity, we don't have that necessity. Plus the women have better players, comparatively, to do it anyways. 

What "isn't" working? 

Edited January 17, 2022 by btownqb