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Michigan pre game


Hoosierfan1901

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9 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Why are we making a big deal about who is a 'starter'?  The bottom line is the guys playing the best should play the most.  That's what happened last night.  

Rob and Galloway were on the court during crunch time, not Stewart or Kopp.  Nobody is going to play 40 minutes, so I ask you.  Given the way the game went last night, are we satisfied those two were on the floor at the end, or is it that important that we call them 'starters'.

If Galloway starts the game or 2nd half guarding Ivey, maybe he is in foul trouble and cant be aggressive at end of game.  Maybe if Rob starts out against Purdue's first unit, his early shots are more contested, he misses them, and he does not have his confidence build.

For those that are still hoping for a lineup change, please explain to me WHY that is so important.  And, always starting the best 5 is NOT a valid reason. 

It's all about matchups and being one step ahead of the opposing coach with your situational substitutions.  Having Rob, Trey, and Geronimo coming off our bench works to our advantage.  It's plain as day to me and I'm surprised not everyone can see it understand that.

 

I not making a case for who is starting...  it's more of identifying a match up, that is not in our favor.  Coach knew early in the first, he couldn't keep Parker and Kopp on the floor at the same time... so why give teams momentum back, by going back to something that obviously isn't going to work.  Again, it's not about starting,  but identifying the bad match ups

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9 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Why are we making a big deal about who is a 'starter'?  The bottom line is the guys playing the best should play the most.  That's what happened last night.  

Rob and Galloway were on the court during crunch time, not Stewart or Kopp.  Nobody is going to play 40 minutes, so I ask you.  Given the way the game went last night, are we satisfied those two were on the floor at the end, or is it that important that we call them 'starters'.

If Galloway starts the game or 2nd half guarding Ivey, maybe he is in foul trouble and cant be aggressive at end of game.  Maybe if Rob starts out against Purdue's first unit, his early shots are more contested, he misses them, and he does not have his confidence build.

For those that are still hoping for a lineup change, please explain to me WHY that is so important.  And, always starting the best 5 is NOT a valid reason. 

It's all about matchups and being one step ahead of the opposing coach with your situational substitutions.  Having Rob, Trey, and Geronimo coming off our bench works to our advantage.  It's plain as day to me and I'm surprised not everyone can see it understand that.

 

I not making a case for who is starting...  it's more of identifying a match up, that is not in our favor.  Coach knew early in the first, he couldn't keep Parker and Kopp on the floor at the same time... so why give teams momentum back, by going back to something that obviously isn't going to work.  Again, it's not about starting,  but identifying the bad match ups

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9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

And again.. everyone is going to look fine playing with TJD. (Kopp), but TG is get his own his own. He doesn't necessarily need TJD for that. Steward and Kopp need more help to succeed, but they offer a skill set, generally, that the other don't have. 

I, too, am floored we are still having this discussion. 

Kopp does not fit with our 2nd unit.  Not at all.  Stewart can play with the 2nd unit a little bit, but cannot impact that group nearly to the level Galloway does.  

Someone should straight up ask Trey.  Would you rather play the first 8 minutes of the second half against Purdue, or the last 12.  I think we all know what his answer would be.

Edited by 5fouls
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1 minute ago, hoosier_exotics said:

I not making a case for who is starting...  it's more of identifying a match up, that is not in our favor.  Coach knew early in the first, he couldn't keep Parker and Kopp on the floor at the same time... so why give teams momentum back, by going back to something that obviously isn't going to work.  Again, it's not about starting,  but identifying the bad match ups

What do you mean early? 

Once TJD came out, we couldn't keep Kopp and Parker in long. Same story both halves there. 

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Galloway is the straw that makes the 2nd unit work.  The difference between how that unit performed when he was out injured and how it is performing now is significant.  

If you swap Galloway with Kopp, the 2nd unit has no movement and nobody that can break down the defense.

Edited by 5fouls
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1 minute ago, btownqb said:

What do you mean early? 

Once TJD came out, we couldn't keep Kopp and Parker in long. Same story both halves there. 

I mean as soon as he saw them getting shredded at the top.. which took about 3 minutes into the game...  TJD's 3rd foul (I think) came from 1of those 2 getting smoked at the top... they are physically not capable of defending more athletic wings

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Just now, hoosier_exotics said:

I mean as soon as he saw them getting shredded at the top.. which took about 3 minutes into the game...  TJD's 3rd foul (I think) came from 1of those 2 getting smoked at the top... they are physically not capable of defending more athletic wings

They literally did in the first half, we didn't sub the first 7 mins of the game, other than Durr coming in for TJD. And yes, the All American did drive around Kopp once and then Race didn't rotate and TJD inexplicably drilled Jaden, yes. There were two other mistakes on that play and not just Kopp. 

Just so we're all clear... the majority of our damage was done, in the first half, when Jaden Ivey was on the bench. The bench didn't really guard him any better than the starters did. 

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Just now, btownqb said:

They literally did in the first half, we didn't sub the first 7 mins of the game, other than Durr coming in for TJD. And yes, the All American did drive around Kopp once and then Race didn't rotate and TJD inexplicably drilled Jaden, yes. There were two other mistakes on that play and not just Kopp. 

Just so we're all clear... the majority of our damage was done, in the first half, when Jaden Ivey was on the bench. The bench didn't really guard him any better than the starters did. 

We are going to disagree 1000% but that's OK.  

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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Galloway is the straw that makes the 2nd unit work.  The difference between how that unit performed when he was out injured and how it is performing now is significant.  

If you swap Galloway with Kopp, the 2nd unit has no movement and nobody that can break down the defense.

This. Plus, the 2nd unit gets a long rebound, gets a steal, whatever.... they can just go. There is no worry about "setting something up for TJD." They just play. 

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29 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Why are we making a big deal about who is a 'starter'?  The bottom line is the guys playing the best should play the most.  That's what happened last night.  

Rob and Galloway were on the court during crunch time, not Stewart or Kopp.  Nobody is going to play 40 minutes, so I ask you.  Given the way the game went last night, are we satisfied those two were on the floor at the end, or is it that important that we call them 'starters'.

If Galloway starts the game or 2nd half guarding Ivey, maybe he is in foul trouble and cant be aggressive at end of game.  Maybe if Rob starts out against Purdue's first unit, his early shots are more contested, he misses them, and he does not have his confidence build.

For those that are still hoping for a lineup change, please explain to me WHY that is so important.  And, always starting the best 5 is NOT a valid reason. 

It's all about matchups and being one step ahead of the opposing coach with your situational substitutions.  Having Rob, Trey, and Geronimo coming off our bench works to our advantage.  It's plain as day to me and I'm surprised not everyone can see it understand that.

 

I agree Kopp with the starters has a chance to have an impact.  With the second group not at all. He will be a focal point of the defense. Trey no matter who or when he plays the results will be the same. His skill set translates well no matter who else is on the floor. Not all players are like that.

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Just now, Billingsley99 said:

I agree Kopp with the starters has a chance to have an impact.  With the second group not at all. He will be a focal point of the defense. Trey no matter who or when he plays the results will be the same. His skill set translates well no matter who else is on the floor. Not all players are like that.

Trey has a little "create offense" to his game. Kopp is more completion of offense.

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12 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Galloway is the straw that makes the 2nd unit work.  The difference between how that unit performed when he was out injured and how it is performing now is significant.  

If you swap Galloway with Kopp, the 2nd unit has no movement and nobody that can break down the defense.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the second unit. And you are correct about when he would rather be playing...  I think Woody is in a pickle, because not only is the 2nd unit better with him, so is the 1st... his minute total is higher, and he's on the floor when it counts for a reason. I just get tired of spotting teams points, until we get our more athletic guards on the floor...

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1 minute ago, hoosier_exotics said:

I'm not disagreeing with you about the second unit. And you are correct about when he would rather be playing...  I think Woody is in a pickle, because not only is the 2nd unit better with him, so is the 1st... his minute total is higher, and he's on the floor when it counts for a reason. I just get tired of spotting teams points, until we get our more athletic guards on the floor...

I understand that completely.  Many including myself do not like the hockey style subbing but getting those guys minutes then paid off last night and will continue to. I may not agree on all things with Woody but I know there is no one out there that wants IU to be great again anymore than he does.

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2 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

I'm not disagreeing with you about the second unit. And you are correct about when he would rather be playing...  I think Woody is in a pickle, because not only is the 2nd unit better with him, so is the 1st... his minute total is higher, and he's on the floor when it counts for a reason. I just get tired of spotting teams points, until we get our more athletic guards on the floor...

But when does that happen? 

And I don't think Woody is in a pickle, whatsoever. I think he is in the best spot any IU coach/team has been in since Yogi's SR year. This is literally a good problem. The first unit isn't going to be THAT much better with TG in it. 

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21 minutes ago, btownqb said:

What do you mean early? 

Once TJD came out, we couldn't keep Kopp and Parker in long. Same story both halves there. 

Both Kopp and Parker play off ball  reversals and inside out play. Catch and shoot. Without Trayce in there...they can't create their own shot. Agree very difficult to keep them in. It does bother me we have given away double digit leads to start the second half in like the last 3-4 games basically and in Wisconsin too. We have to find a way to build off the first halves and not come out flat...not sure what the answer is but we need one.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Both Kopp and Parker play off ball  reversals and inside out play. Catch and shoot. Without Trayce in there...they can't create their own shot. Agree very difficult to keep them in. It does bother me we have given away double digit leads to start the second half in like the last 3-4 games basically and in Wisconsin too. We have to find a way to build off the first halves and not come out flat...not sure what the answer is but we need one.

I guess, what I would say is.... did we truly expect to beat the #4 ranked team in the country by 20? Idk. I fully expected Purdue to make a run. But, yes, we can for sure be better out of halftime. 

Edited by btownqb
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We finally have team that you can debate who is playing the best. Instead of playing to develop for the future 

we have 7 guys that could start. Davis,Thompson, XJ, Rob, Galloway, steward and Kopp. Kopp and steward are 2 best shooters. They help space the floor for Davis. That is why they start.  Rob is the best backup to point guard and XJ the best point guard. That is why Rob comes off the bench. Having Galloway in the second group gives you an additional ball handler and play maker. 
 

Geronimo is coming along nicely as well. This team is getting a good rotation going

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9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I guess, what I would say is.... did we truly expect to beat the #4 ranked team in the country by 20? Idk. I fully expected Purdue to make a run. But, yes, we can for sure be better out of halftime. 

Oh no...especially not with what we got from Trayce...it's just an observation...I don't like the habit of how we start games, finish halves, and start second halves. I'm fine with coach....he has his pulse on this team. I do think it has to concern him a bit though....and maybe he just goes to the bench a little faster in the future.

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4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Oh no...especially not with what we got from Trayce...it's just an observation...I don't like the habit of how we start games, finish halves, and start second halves. I'm fine with coach....he has his pulse on this team. I do think it has to concern him a bit though....and maybe he just goes to the bench a little faster in the future.

I think that will for sure happen. I don't agree that we have habitually slow starts. 

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I think it’s as simple as Coach just wanting the most experience starting the game.  With that thinking, he’d add Rob and take someone out.  
 

I think a lot of coaches would’ve started Rob in the 2nd half last night, but he’s sticking to his starters - I’m thinking primarily bc of experience. 

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2 hours ago, btownqb said:

And again.. everyone is going to look fine playing with TJD. (Kopp), but TG can get his own on his own. He doesn't necessarily need TJD for that. Stewart and Kopp need more help to succeed, but they offer a skill set, generally, that the other don't have. 

I, too, am floored we are still having this discussion. 

I believe that your best 5 should be what you start the game with and the best 5 from the first half should be what starts the second half. 

I'm not sure why we are hoping that we can get the best out of Kopp and Stewart so that we can put off as long as possible having our best group on the floor. 

Perhaps Rob and Galloway both prefer to come off the bench. 

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