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Stewart and Kopp


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15 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

This isn’t true. This isn’t a true motion offense. Those take to long to develop. He ran 4-5 plays for Parker and he hit all but one. He ran a few more but Michigan adjusted. It’s actually funny when people start saying Parker and Kopp should move without the ball. They set up exactly where they are supposed to. They catch and shoot 3s at a very high percentage  clip. Problem is they are literally our best shooters. They get taken out of plays because they are the focus. They leave all our other “shooters” open. Wonder why? You won’t see anyone come off those two to double the post. Michigan went zone with Parker and Kopp out of the game too. Why? Because they are our only consistent shooters. Look at this. 
 

https://www.hoop-math.com/Indiana2022.php

absolutely agree and while i am not a huge Kopp fan, it can't be underestimated how much having the 2 of them in opens up the others.  huge at any level.  my son's team is #1 in the state and now ranked 34 in the nation by 1 services and 39 by another.  they aren't big or athletic.  pretty much everyone plays no help on my son no matter where he is on the floor.  we now have another kid they have to do pretty close to that with.  it makes our PG and 3 almost impossible to keep from getting to the basket with not much help available.  that said, i am still a fan of rewarding good play and making lineup changes here and there and not worry about hurting guys feelings or disrupting their routine.  if you don't deserve to start every game, live with it and adjust.

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12 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

Something else. You ever wonder why race has been taking threes? Imagine how different the Michigan game would be if we had a 4 that could hit threes. Woody knows how important that is. Race has the green light. 

that would be great!  however since he shoots 11% out there, i don't want him to just keep shooting them until he makes one.  that doesn't seem like a good plan.  keep practicing them all you want in practice and on your own time big man!

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20 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

Something else. You ever wonder why race has been taking threes? Imagine how different the Michigan game would be if we had a 4 that could hit threes. Woody knows how important that is. Race has the green light. 

And also the way we want to play moving forward. It's an audition, honestly. 

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17 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

that would be great!  however since he shoots 11% out there, i don't want him to just keep shooting them until he makes one.  that doesn't seem like a good plan.  keep practicing them all you want in practice and on your own time big man!

Nope. Look at the catch and shoot (assisted 3)stat. He’s actually not horrible. 75%. It’s when he has to force it up. That’s when it gets bad. He will take open looks moving forward. 

Edited by Victobmyboy
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2 hours ago, dgambill said:

So the question becomes....do you change the starting lineup at risk of destroying the continuity of your bench...or do you try to find ways to better utilize your starting unit and get them going faster. Have to be careful that by making lineup changes you don't destroy what is working at trying to fix what has problems and end up with two broken units. I could see a tweak or two but doubt it will be lineup driven....probably running different sets etc to get some easy looks for our wings early and do a better job of getting out of the gate. I don't have the stat but I'd bet the start of the second half mirrors this as well....as we have seen IU struggle coming out of the locker room as well....Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan etc.

I would come out every game running sets to get Stewart some open looks. It seems if good shooters get started early, they are mor engaged in the game.

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I would come out every game running sets to get Stewart some open looks. It seems if good shooters get started early, they are mor engaged in the game.

He runs plays for him and Kopp out of timeouts a lot. He can’t do it all game as they always adjust. We got Michigan on 3 in a row. 2 for Stewert and 1 for Kopp. Kopp hit all his open shots. Just didn’t have many. They both are catch and shoot players. Although Kopp can get by his guy some. 

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41 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Jordan Geronimo isn't a three. 

If he wants to play in the NBA he needs to be. He needs to be able to play both just like OG. Just because Archie bulked him up to cover our issues at the 4 doesn’t mean that is all he can be. He still has hope of being developed to play both on the wing as inside and especially to at least guard the wing.

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2 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

He runs plays for him and Kopp out of timeouts a lot. He can’t do it all game as they always adjust. We got Michigan on 3 in a row. 2 for Stewert and 1 for Kopp. Kopp hit all his open shots. Just didn’t have many. They both are catch and shoot players. Although Kopp can get by his guy some. 

I know the game is different but guys like Alford ran off screens all game long.  People say running motion can't be done because of the 30 second clock did not watch IU run it in the 80's and 90's.  very rarely did you see Iu run the clock down very much of at all.  Especially the 87 team and the Cheaney years we took a lot of our shots after a couple of passes.  What I see today is that coaches start their offense to late into the clock.  to me every pass or cut is supposed to be getting an open look for a shooter.  It seems like coaches want to run an offense to have one opportunity to get a shot.

Also, I think to get Race or Trace better post position they need to have those players moving and coming off cross screens. It seems like we just have them try to get post position by having them trying to basck that defender down.

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2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If he wants to play in the NBA he needs to be. He needs to be able to play both just like OG. Just because Archie bulked him up to cover our issues at the 4 doesn’t mean that is all he can be. He still has hope of being developed to play both on the wing as inside and especially to at least guard the wing.

I didnt say forever, but currently, he isn't one. That's not really something you just pick up mid-season imo. 

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2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If he wants to play in the NBA he needs to be. He needs to be able to play both just like OG. Just because Archie bulked him up to cover our issues at the 4 doesn’t mean that is all he can be. He still has hope of being developed to play both on the wing as inside and especially to at least guard the wing.

He will play both for us. He plays the 4 right now because he can. He’s actually out of position and it shows. He can do everything Smith could and shoot. He’s going to be great once we get a better lineup at the 4. 

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know the game is different but guys like Alford ran off screens all game long.  People say running motion can't be done because of the 30 second clock did not watch IU run it in the 80's and 90's.  very rarely did you see Iu run the clock down very much of at all.  Especially the 87 team and the Cheaney years we took a lot of our shots after a couple of passes.  What I see today is that coaches start their offense to late into the clock.  to me every pass or cut is supposed to be getting an open look for a shooter.  It seems like coaches want to run an offense to have one opportunity to get a shot.

Also, I think to get Race or Trace better post position they need to have those players moving and coming off cross screens. It seems like we just have them try to get post position by having them trying to basck that defender down.

Shot clock used to be 45. Also when it resets now it only goes to 20. You absolutely can’t run a knight style motion. It’s all about individual matchups today. The dribble drive took over because of this. It works. You just have to get the right personnel

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1 minute ago, Victobmyboy said:

Shot clock used to be 45. Also when it resets now it only goes to 20. You absolutely can’t run a knight style motion. It’s all about individual matchups today. The dribble drive took over because of this. It works. You just have to get the right personnel

Oh its on the way. 

Edited by btownqb
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16 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I didnt say forever, but currently, he isn't one. That's not really something you just pick up mid-season imo. 

We just don’t have good options at the 3. Bates has enough size & athleticism  to play it but his future is at the 2. Wouldn’t be worth it. Galloway can’t shoot and Geronimo needs to develop. Not sure what Leal is up to as he gets zero minutes. My two cents, Kopp and Stewart need to be spelling each other not on the court at the same time. Who steps in? I’ll let Woody figure that out but it’s obvious a change needs to happen. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosier82 said:

We just don’t have good options at the 3. Bates has enough size & athleticism  to play it but his future is at the 2. Wouldn’t be worth it. Galloway can’t shoot and Geronimo needs to develop. Not sure what Leal is up to as he gets zero minutes. My two cents, Kopp and Stewart need to be spelling each other not on the court at the same time. Who steps in? I’ll let Woody figure that out but it’s obvious a change needs to happen. 

If the staff decides that, yeah. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosier82 said:

We just don’t have good options at the 3. Bates has enough size & athleticism  to play it but his future is at the 2. Wouldn’t be worth it. Galloway can’t shoot and Geronimo needs to develop. Not sure what Leal is up to as he gets zero minutes. My two cents, Kopp and Stewart need to be spelling each other not on the court at the same time. Who steps in? I’ll let Woody figure that out but it’s obvious a change needs to happen. 

Reason they play together early is to hopefully open up the inside. Get the paint going first. Keeps the D honest early. Neither one need to prove they can shoot. Trey can’t…Phin can but he’s 29% so far. That’s why they start. Plus they play pretty good defense. 

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17 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

Shot clock used to be 45. Also when it resets now it only goes to 20. You absolutely can’t run a knight style motion. It’s all about individual matchups today. The dribble drive took over because of this. It works. You just have to get the right personnel

Like I said the misconception was that he held the ball but most of the shots were within 15 seconds of the possession.  To me that kind of offense doesn't work well and is less effecient.  Scoring and pace are worse today than it was back then.  Shooting percentages are not as good as well.

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6 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

He will play both for us. He plays the 4 right now because he can. He’s actually out of position and it shows. He can do everything Smith could and shoot. He’s going to be great once we get a better lineup at the 4. 

I like his shot from the corner 3. Even his elbow jumper. I do think he is carrying too much muscle almost….I hope we try less bulk and more lean to maybe give him a little more quickness on the perimeter in defending. I understand he is a tweener but I’d like for him to develop more as a wing.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

I like his shot from the corner 3. Even his elbow jumper. I do think he is carrying too much muscle almost….I hope we try less bulk and more lean to maybe give him a little more quickness on the perimeter in defending. I understand he is a tweener but I’d like for him to develop more as a wing.

Well, from what I know their is no correlation with bulk and quickness. At least some trainers agree. I want guys who can bang. 

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1 hour ago, Victobmyboy said:

Nope. Look at the catch and shoot (assisted 3)stat. He’s actually not horrible. 75%. It’s when he has to force it up. That’s when it gets bad. He will take open looks moving forward. 

hey.  that's cool.  i'm not saying he won't.  i just think it is tough when he shoots 11% from there.  seems like it won't put many points on the board.  JMO.  

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58 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

Shot clock used to be 45. Also when it resets now it only goes to 20. You absolutely can’t run a knight style motion. It’s all about individual matchups today. The dribble drive took over because of this. It works. You just have to get the right personnel

Agreed…although motion is still run…especially at many mid major programs as I saw it when I lived in Murray and with OVC teams like Belmont where there is not a lot of dominant players to run PNR etc….it is just harder to teach because of AAU mentality and me personality of kids now days. It takes longer to master and now both coaches and kids don’t stay in a program long enough to learn it…except sometimes at these mid major programs. Scott is actually right though…you absolutely still have enough time to run it though. Heck Golden St runs a version of it still in the nba at times when they want to run sets and not iso. I agree offensive rebounds leave little time to run it after that…that is a perfect time to get a reversal and post or pick n roll. I think this article summed it up though. It’s just very hard to teach and kids that are used to having the ball in their hand all the time don’t trust giving it up and getting it back.

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/clemson-146-s-brownell-on-why-the-motion-offense-is-declining-in-college-basketball/article_daaf6974-9720-5565-908a-5802f283832b.html

Funny thing is come tournament time…you see a lot of veteran mid major programs just out execute much more talented power 5 schools using variations of motion offenses because it’s very hard to prepare for and defend….only defense being taught is ball screen defense etc.

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