Build Your Own Team

[GaloisGroupe]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I get that sentiment and you're probably right. 

But wasnt Alford NPOY his SR and VO was top 3. I mean, hard to really know how good a team is when you add in a NPOY, right? 

I mean, sweet jesus VO and XJ would be a Buckner/Wilkerson combo defensively. And I think its glaringly obvious what Alford would do for us offensively. 

Obviously, either would completely change our game.... but I personally do not think many bubble teams are only one elite (college level) player away from a title.

Compare to the 2012-2013 team, aside from Yogi (FR) vs. XJ (SR) I am not sure I would take anyone from this team over their comparator from that team: Hulls > Steward, VO > Kopp, Wat maybe wash with Thompson (ironically, I think Thompson would have been a better fit on the '12-'13 team and Wat's 3 point shooting would help this team more) and (as much as I LOVE TJD) Zeller > TJD. Even Sheehy (JR) was better than Galloway (SO) - albeit I think Galloway's trajectory (i.e., improving shot) makes his long-term ceiling MUCH higher)

PS: This is not a knock on this team, I LOVE THEM and believe they will find a way into at least the sweet 16.

[IowaHoosierFan]

12 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Alford's easily the best pure shooter in the history of IU ball, and he could actually create his own shot on a limited basis now and then. But, he was average at best on the defensive end. That's why I'm going with Vic. Plus, nothing like a rim rattling dunk or emphatic block now and then to really get the crowd into it. 

You wouldn't have the "socks, shorts, 1, 2, 3, swish" FT thing with Vic, though. 

FYI, blocks and dunks do get the crowd going but have you watched a game where someone is draining 3s like they are doing layups.  How the score just stretches and streches and the crown explodes every time one of them drain and you can literally watch the other team slowly die on the inside while you crowd, bench and team smell blood in the water.

Well you haven't with an IU team in a long time, but it is oh so fun.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

You just have the worst possible delivery for what is essentially a valid point.  There are classes you can take to increase your ability to communicate in a less condescending way.  

You are totally correct

[5fouls]

32 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

IT.

Alford.

May.

Turner.

Benson.

Wittman.

Tolbert.

Buckner

 

 

I'll give you your starters, though you're playing Landon Turner based on about half a season of performance.  But, let's look at the bench.

Tolbert over Zeller is wrong.  It just is.  7'0 compared to 6'9?   Cody could put it on the floor a little bit.  Tolbert couldn't.

Wittman was a very good player.  Oladipo was runner up to NPOY.  He was also a 1st team DEFENSIVE all-american.  He was also the 2nd player drafted in the NBA draft.

Buckner and Watford aren't really comparable players.  But, for the sake of argument, what's going to be more valuable to the team off the bench.  A point guard off the bench who can't shoot, who has an average assist to turnover ratio, and at max will be playing 5 minutes a game because we have Isaih Freaking Thomas as our starting point guard. Or, could I bring a high level 3-point shooter who can also rebound at a high level, to spell my weakest starter, who is Turner?

With your 5 starters, the best un-biased team you can construct has your entire bench coming from the '12-'13. team.   

Edited February 11, 2022 by 5fouls

[IowaHoosierFan]

This is harder for me, missing Calber Chaney is messing with me.  I went with May and Buckner purely based off of lore and history.  Alford and Olidipo for obvious reason and Zeller for a 7' who can move and run the floor

Thomas
May
Alford
Oladipo
Zeller

Buckner
TJD
Watford

Edited February 11, 2022 by IowaHoosierFan

[BGleas]

I've only skimmed this thread, been a busy day, and maybe it's because of the '3 max from each team rule, but I'm really surprised at the number of people that have Race in their starting lineup?

I like Race, I really do, but Watford is a no-brainer over him. Could defend 1-4, was a good rebounder and could shoot from deep. 

[GaloisGroupe]

FYI: For the arguments, VO in '12-'13 was not a "just a dunker"

I AM NOT COMPARING him to Alford as a shooter, but the '12-'13 season was the year he came out with a shot (-44% from three on decent volume - 68 shots) AND was able to create his own shot.  

I honestly would take him over Alford, even for this team that desperately needs a shooter (close call given our needs). He was the #2 to pick the draft that year and backed it up with a stellar NBA career until injuries. 

 

[IU Scott]

22 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'll give you your starters, though you're playing Landon Turner based on about half a season of performance.  But, let's look at the bench.

Tolbert over Zeller is wrong.  It just is.  7'0 compared to 6'9?   Cody could put it on the floor a little bit.  Tolbert couldn't.

Wittman was a very good player.  Oladipo was runner up to NPOY.  He was also a 1st team DEFENSIVE all-american.  He was also the 2nd player drafted in the NBA draft.

Buckner and Watford aren't really comparable players.  But, for the sake of argument, what's going to be more valuable to the team off the bench.  A point guard off the bench who can't shoot, who has an average assist to turnover ratio, and at max will be playing 5 minutes a game because we have Isaih Freaking Thomas as our starting point guard. Or, could I bring a high level 3-point shooter who can also rebound at a high level, to spell my weakest starter, who is Turner?

With your 5 starters, the best un-biased team you can construct has your entire bench coming from the '12-'13. team.   

I didn't realize there were a right or wrong answers.  I thought it was the team in our opinion that would be the best.  Tolbert ran the floor as good of not better than Zeller did.  Tolbert could hit shots from 15+18 feet where Zeller never did.  Tolbert was also a better defender and shot blocker.  A lot of people said that if Turner hadn't gotten injured in the car wreck he would have been the top pick in the draft the next year.

[btownqb]

There are 130 more D1 basketball teams now then compared to 1976.

Just information. Thought that was interesting. 

[13th&Jackson]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I've only skimmed this thread, been a busy day, and maybe it's because of the '3 max from each team rule, but I'm really surprised at the number of people that have Race in their starting lineup?

I like Race, I really do, but Watford is a no-brainer over him. Could defend 1-4, was a good rebounder and could shoot from deep. 

For me it was having to pick at least one player from the current team. I had enough scoring from the other positions, so wanted to go with the reliable hard hat/glue guy in Race.

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Indiana wasnt even guarded in that game outside of 15ft. 

Could you imagine doing that to Watford or Hulls? Hell even Yogi as a FR? It's lock and load, you can have the motion offense for 2 points. 

Do you think Watford, Hulls, or Yogi would have had the skills that you're touting with only 70s basketball training and no AAU/summer ball? 

As I said, you have to judge each player within the context of the era that they played...

[IowaHoosierFan]

22 minutes ago, btownqb said:

There are 130 more D1 basketball teams now then compared to 1976.

Just information. Thought that was interesting. 

Not sure if that makes basketball better or worst.  Interesting never the less

[rico]

1 minute ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Not sure if that makes basketball better or worst.  Interesting never the less

I feel it makes the NCAAT better.

[HoosierDPU95]

Starters:

1. I. Thomas

2. Wilkerson

3. Calloway

4. Thompson

5. Zeller

Bench:

Yogi

Alford

TJD

 

 

 

 

 

[5fouls]

49 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I've only skimmed this thread, been a busy day, and maybe it's because of the '3 max from each team rule, but I'm really surprised at the number of people that have Race in their starting lineup?

I like Race, I really do, but Watford is a no-brainer over him. Could defend 1-4, was a good rebounder and could shoot from deep. 

You have to start someone from this years team.  With IT at PG, you are not starting X.  So, you are basically down to starting Race and TJD.

And, the initial rule is only 2 per team, not 3.  But just like something else, variants keep popping up.

[IU Scott]

17 minutes ago, rico said:

I feel it makes the NCAAT better.

Not sure if that is the case. They always had the champions from each conference in the tournament.  I see programs like IUPUI that probably shouldn't be in D1 and can't compete at this level

[IUFLA]

One more item...

Regardless how boring some people may think the basketball of days gone by might be, it sure was a lot of fun winning Big 10 or National Championships...those weren't boring at all...

Also, I'm a proponent of both the 3 point line and the shot clock...I watched the Pacers from their inception in the ABA, and the 3 point line was the best contribution to the sport that league made (the red, white, and blue basketball not withstanding)...

And if you watched a North Carolina basketball game in the 70s, you know why I liked the shot clock. If he got the lead, Dean Smith would turn it from a basketball game into a keep away contest...

[btownqb]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Do you think Watford, Hulls, or Yogi would have had the skills that you're touting with only 70s basketball training and no AAU/summer ball? 

As I said, you have to judge each player within the context of the era that they played...

Ahh.. see I would want May at the 4 because I have zeroooo issue playing small. I prefer ultra skilled, compared to a lineup with TJD, or someone like him, as a 4 (in my perfect world). 

So then.. I would also have IT, Alford, VO, and Zeller as the rest of my team. I'd run you to death. I do not like playing through the post(even though we obviously do now out of necessity). We'd be open post with endless amounts of Zeller ball screens.. SA in one corner and let IT eat with May and VO being solid threats from deep, but lethal off the bounce because of their elite athleticism and Zeller grabbing timely Orebs. 

Again, simply MY perfect team. 

Again... it was a positve I wanted May at the 4. I believe I included 3 old timers in my list, yeah?

Edited February 12, 2022 by btownqb

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

One more item...

Regardless how boring some people may think the basketball of days gone by might be, it sure was a lot of fun winning Big 10 or National Championships...those weren't boring at all...

Also, I'm a proponent of both the 3 point line and the shot clock...I watched the Pacers from their inception in the ABA, and the 3 point line was the best contribution to the sport that league made (the red, white, and blue basketball not withstanding)...

And if you watched a North Carolina basketball game in the 70s, you know why I liked the shot clock. If he got the lead, Dean Smith would turn it from a basketball game into a keep away contest...

Are you friends with my dad or something? He's mentioned all of this multiple times before. 

[Seeking6]

7 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

One more item...

Regardless how boring some people may think the basketball of days gone by might be, it sure was a lot of fun winning Big 10 or National Championships...those weren't boring at all...

Also, I'm a proponent of both the 3 point line and the shot clock...I watched the Pacers from their inception in the ABA, and the 3 point line was the best contribution to the sport that league made (the red, white, and blue basketball not withstanding)...

And if you watched a North Carolina basketball game in the 70s, you know why I liked the shot clock. If he got the lead, Dean Smith would turn it from a basketball game into a keep away contest...

I can't remember exactly how the phrase went. Dean Smith often gets credit for the 4 corners offense. Listened to Bobby Plump give a speech about 15 years ago and he basically said he was thankful that Dean let us borrow the 4 corners 20 years before he invented it. 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

One more item...

Regardless how boring some people may think the basketball of days gone by might be, it sure was a lot of fun winning Big 10 or National Championships...those weren't boring at all...

Also, I'm a proponent of both the 3 point line and the shot clock...I watched the Pacers from their inception in the ABA, and the 3 point line was the best contribution to the sport that league made (the red, white, and blue basketball not withstanding)...

And if you watched a North Carolina basketball game in the 70s, you know why I liked the shot clock. If he got the lead, Dean Smith would turn it from a basketball game into a keep away contest...

I agree with you on all of this.  I just hate the shot clock at 30 seconds and thought it was best at 45 seconds.  It still allowed you to actually run an offense but it eliminated teams holding the ball at the ends of game. With the kind of offense that is ran today 30 seconds shot clock makes for a lit of forced shots at the end of the shot clock.  Teams wait to long to start their offense so most of the time you have to get a shot off in like 13 seconds. 

If you watched the games when it was at 45 seconds you never even heard the shot clock mentioned. Back then to started your offense right away and took the first open shot no matter where the shot came from.  With everything being a 3 or a layup it takes longer to find your shot.  Before every pass or cut was to find a shot.  To me it is so much easier defending the offenses today because you pretty much taking 1/3 of the court away.  I just despises seeing an offense that is all about dribbling and not passing and cutting.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Ahh.. see I would want May at the 4 because I zeroooo issue playing small. I prefer ultra skilled, compared to a lineup with TJD, or someone like him, as a 4 (in my perfect world). 

So then.. I would also have IT, Alford, VO, and Zeller as the rest of my team. I'd run you to death. I do not like playing through the post(even though we obviously do, now out of necessity). We'd be open post with endless amounts of Zeller ball screens.. SA in one corner and let IT eat with May and VO being solid threats from deep, but lethal off the bounce because of their elite athleticism and Zeller grabbing timely Orebs. 

Again, simply MY perfect team. 

Again... it was a positve I wanted May at the 4. I believe I included 3 old timers in my list, yeah?

RMK didn't play through the post and you very rarely saw our bigs posting up.  Turner and Tolbert hit a lot of of points from shooting 12-15 footers on the baseline.

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Are you friends with my dad or something? He's mentioned all of this multiple times before. 

He probably saw a lot of the same games/players I did...

You see high school teams like the 1969 Indianapolis Washington team, or the 1971 East Chicago Washington team, the IU teams of the70s, and the Pacers (who were the dominant ABA franchise) and it leaves an impression...

[IUFLA]

7 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I can't remember exactly how the phrase went. Dean Smith often gets credit for the 4 corners offense. Listened to Bobby Plump give a speech about 15 years ago and he basically said he was thankful that Dean let us borrow the 4 corners 20 years before he invented it. 

That's very true...Smith just did it on national TV in front of enough people he bored the crap out of to get the rule changed 😁

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

That's very true...Smith just did it on national TV in front of enough people he bored the crap out of to get the rule changed 😁

I watched some of our games before the shot clock RMK would start holding the ball around the 3 minute mark.  Also when we did this the band would start playing something and didn't think you could do that during the play.