Wisconsin Post Game

[IUFLA]

12 minutes ago, 94hoosier said:

Davis was forced into tough shots all night. He made them. He had to work to get his shot up. 
 

This game came down to them hitting tough shots. Fade always with a hand in the face. Driving in and shooting over multiple guys. Jump shots on the move. IU wide up shots missed. That was the problem

Yep, sometimes you just have to tip your cap...The kid had a helluva game...

But so did Trayce...Bum ankle and all...they said he'd only practiced lightly this week...30 points, 8 boards, 6 assists, 1 steal, and 3 blocks is a pretty good night, bum ankle or not...

Maybe Trayce was too unselfish down the stretch...He trusted his teammates and they didn't hit the open looks they got because of the double teams he was drawing...

The last play just looked like a total fire drill...we panicked...Coach Woody might have drawn up a good one, but our execution was simply inept...

 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I like Woodson too but if we don’t make the dance this season it’s going to be nearly impossible for him to ever recover.  It’s just the way it is with this fan base when you hire a coach with no track record at the college level whatsoever .  He’s just never going to get the benefit of the doubt when things go south.  The apathy is here and the part where the fans start rooting for loses to pile up is almost here.  Sad.

Why would anyone start rooting for losses.  I don't think we get a better draft pick if we lose.  Also there won't be a coaching change after this year so I don't understand why anyone would root for us to lose.

[tdhoosier]

I’m sorry, but we don’t need to tip toe around the criticism for the coaching staff and keep blaming a lack of talent. 

Yes, we could use more talent. 90% of teams could use more talent, but we are playing below our talent level. 

The same problems keep plaguing us and a lot of the problems fall on the coaching staff. We didn’t lose this game because we can’t shoot. It’s WHO took those shots. It was the empty possessions that happened after we had momentum and even the empty possessions we had after timeouts. It was putting in that same damn lineup that loses our leads. (Yes, players can rest, but they don’t need to all rest at the same time). It was the defensive assignments. 

We had nice movement in the first half. We were using cuts and had some motion. And then it disappeared when we desperately need it. 

We had enough talent to win this game. A disciplined team should have won that game. This team isn’t that. This doesn’t squarely fall on a lack of talent. We can criticize Woody and not want him fired. Woody and this ‘all-star’ staff have to get better. 

[IUFLA]

6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I’m sorry, but we don’t need to tip toe around the criticism for the coaching staff and keep blaming a lack of talent. 

Yes, we could use more talent. 90% of teams could use more talent, but we are playing below our talent level. 

The same problems keep plaguing us and a lot of the problems fall on the coaching staff. We didn’t lose this game because we can’t shoot. It’s WHO took those shots. It was the empty possessions that happened after we had momentum and even the empty possessions we had after timeouts. It was putting in that same damn lineup that loses our leads. (Yes, players can rest, but they don’t need to all rest at the same time). It was the defensive assignments. 

We had nice movement in the first half. We were using cuts and had some motion. And then it disappeared when we desperately need it. 

We had enough talent to win this game. A disciplined team should have won that game. This team isn’t that. This doesn’t squarely fall on a lack of talent. We can criticize Woody and not want him fired. Woody and this ‘all-star’ staff have to get better. 

Yeah, but come on, brother...You expect a division 1 guard to hit wide open shots at a rate at least above 30%...the guy who took the most shots for us in the game (XJ) was 3-16......Last night our guards were a combined 9-35 (26%). We got wide open looks and didn't make the shots...

Edited February 16, 2022 by IUFLA

[IU Scott]

I see people saying Kopp shouldn't have guarded Davis but he did better than anyone who guarded him.  After the game on Assembly Call they talked about this and I agreed that  Stewart was the one that got killed when guarding Davis.  So not those two who would you have guard him.

[IUDan93]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Break out the NIT bracketology...

NIT= No Invitation Tournament

NIT= Never Indiana Tournament

NIT=No Ideahowtogetinafieldof68teamsdespiteallthebakedinadvantageswehavethatmostschoolsonlydreamof Tournament

I guess Coach Knight's first season ended with the NIT(of course there were only 25 teams that got to play in the NCAAs back then-I had to look that up). His 2nd season, Final Four baby.  Maybe that is what Woodson will do as well.

BTW-when the field expanded to 64 in 1985, IU went to the NIT. Knight never missed the tournament again while at IU.  

[rico]

1 minute ago, IUDan93 said:

NIT= No Invitation Tournament

NIT= Never Indiana Tournament

NIT=No Ideahowtogetinafieldof68teamsdespiteallthebakedinadvantageswehavethatmostschoolsonlydreamof Tournament

I guess Coach Knight's first season ended with the NIT(of course there were only 25 teams that got to play in the NCAAs back then-I had to look that up). His 2nd season, Final Four baby.  Maybe that is what Woodson will do as well.

BTW-when the field expanded to 64 in 1985, IU went to the NIT. Knight never missed the tournament again while at IU.  

There was a team that Knight coached that didn't make a post season tournament and Woody was on it.

[IUJoe]

16 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I like Woodson too but if we don’t make the dance this season it’s going to be nearly impossible for him to ever recover.  It’s just the way it is with this fan base when you hire a coach with no track record at the college level whatsoever .  He’s just never going to get the benefit of the doubt when things go south.  The apathy is here and the part where the fans start rooting for loses to pile up is almost here.  Sad.

Maybe it’s time for some of the fan base to just go away.  I mean, I get it.  I’ve been around a long time and losing sucks.  But anyone thinking a first-year coach is on the hot seat and is therefore rooting for losses should be spending their free time in a therapist’s office rather than watching basketball.

[IUFLA]

And I got so sick hearing Benedetti say "Wisconsin has won 22 of the last 25" I could die...He never mentioned the fact that even with that since 1950 IU leads the series 82-44...

[tdhoosier]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Yeah, but come on, brother...You expect a division 1 guard to hit wide open shots at a rate at least above 30%...the guy who took the most shots for us in the game (XJ) was 3-16......Last night our guards were a combined 9-35 (26%). We got wide open looks and didn't make the shots...

I said it was who took the shots…especially in crunch time. I believe on that last open 3, XJ could’ve swung it to an open Kopp in the corner which is a higher percentage shot. It doesn’t seem like the team is prepared for the situations they find themselves in. And it keeps happening. Is the coaching staff completely absolved from these situations? I see a team on the floor (made up mostly of veteran players) that doesn’t know what to do in close games.  

 

[AxnJxn]

4 minutes ago, IUJoe said:

Maybe it’s time for some of the fan base to just go away.  I mean, I get it.  I’ve been around a long time and losing sucks.  But anyone thinking a first-year coach is on the hot seat and is therefore rooting for losses should be spending their free time in a therapist’s office rather than watching basketball.

I mean, you're quoting someone who has been over the top negative towards this program for years. I don't think any reasonable IU fan thinks that CMW's on the hot seat, or anywhere close to it. Despite all of the frustrations, there are plenty of positives to point out from this season.

[rico]

4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I said it was who took the shots…especially in crunch time. I believe on that last open 3, XJ could’ve swung it to an open Kopp in the corner which is a higher percentage shot. It doesn’t seem like the team is prepared for the situations they find themselves in. And it keeps happening. Is the coaching staff completely absolved from these situations? I see a team on the floor (made up mostly of veteran players) that doesn’t know what to do in close games.  

 

It definitely appears that a majority of our players lack basketball IQ.

[DC2345]

This team is missing Rob Phinisee in the worst way. He has had his issues but he was finally starting to produce and had been the teams best perimeter defender. Not to mention he helped get the ball out of X’s hands. 

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I said it was who took the shots…especially in crunch time. I believe on that last open 3, XJ could’ve swung it to an open Kopp in the corner which is a higher percentage shot. It doesn’t seem like the team is prepared for the situations they find themselves in. And it keeps happening. Is the coaching staff completely absolved from these situations? I see a team on the floor (made up mostly of veteran players) that doesn’t know what to do in close games.  

 

Sure, you'd like to see some shoot more than others, but to me it's somewhat like the Archie years...If you run the offense, and a player gets an open shot, then I think the coach has done his job for the most part...Isn't that the point of running an offense? 

Teams have come to the conclusion that they can double Trayce at will with XJ or Galloway's man...They're still sticking to Kopp and Stewart,,,Bilas even pointed it out last night when Davison wouldn't leave Stewart to double TJD...

[DC2345]

Galloway, Stewart, and Johnson all wanted to be the hero so bad last night late in the game they didn’t even look to see what the defense was giving them. On one of Galloway’s 3’s he missed terribly he had Kopp wide open one pass away to his left. He should’ve been swinging that ball the second he caught it. X is the king of taking bad shots and letting the ball stick in his hands. 

[Euroclydon]

Your team is down late and they toss the ball into you as the lone scoring threat at 6'9. You see the defense is hedging toward you and you know once you put the ball on the court they will double you. Then you notice nobody on your team is moving much, so you start to make your move. Once it is obvious you can't get a clear shot you have an instant to decide - who should I pass it out to? Then you realize, there is no good option. In that moment you realize nobody on your team is a reliable shooter or scorer. You know the correct play is to pass it out for a clean look but the two "shooters" on your team have to be standing still and unguarded or they can't shoot. The rest can do nothing more than throw up a prayer or drive to the basket for a wild shot that has little chance of going in. This is TJD's life on the court virtually every game.

It's either a forced shot over size, which TJD struggles with, or what? Who else do you trust to get and hit a shot on this team? The only guy who's shown he can hit a big shot is sitting on the bench in a suit and we have no idea when or if he will play again this season. The rest are unproven and unreliable. There seem to be no answers when the game is on the line.

[HoosierDPU95]

Rob being out has hurt for sure and the Windy City 5 episode was a huge disruption, but at the end of the day we're just not a very good team. Wisconsin was just another example of how critical smart guard play is to the game. Our bigs destroyed their bigs but their guards destroyed our guards. In crunch time, strong guards will wins over strong bigs 99% of the time.

I listened to the game on the radio and Suhr made a comment in the first half that really summed things up for me. It was on an IU possession where we got 2 offensive boards and on the second one kicked it out to X for a wide open 3 that clanked out. He said something like "Good teams hit that shot. How many times do you see good teams extend a possession like that and just deflate their opponent by knocking down a 3". Shortly after that, Davidson splashed a 3 in transition off of a turnover. Until we get consistent, smart guard play (decision making, shot selection, actually knocking down shots, and defense) we shouldn't expect anything beyond last night's results.

My disappointment level has maxed out at this point so at least I won't get too worked up in the remaining games. I would just like to see improvements in the players that will be here next year (I'm not even going to speculate who those are). 

[Billingsley99]

Who would have believed that the Tom Crean era would be the glory days of Indiana basketball.  I am so tired of hearing we have great coaches,  we win the recruiting battle we got 5 star kids blah blah blah. Just win a MFING game. Not going to post about this game been the same thing for 5 plus years. Next game I will so.i can just copy and paste. We are what our records says we are and that's an irrelevant basketball program. I am tired of the Purdue little brother talk. I would walk to West Lafayette naked up hill both ways in the snow to have what they have. I don't see this ship being righted anytime soon. I can no longer defend our sucky shooting, no sense of urgency,  low IQ Basketball program that just does not seem to get any better. Will we ever get out of the movie Groundhogs day. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Billingsley99

[Fiveoutofsix]

41 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

I want to think that we are going in the right direction, but in what way are we really any different this year? Suspensions, injuries, multiple game losing streaks when we need to be building momentum. Our defense is better, I guess. We always seem to have a nice recruit, but never in enough in numbers to build a team set at more than 1-2 positions. Woodson set a goal with the team to defend our home court, but in the last month we lost three games. I don't like Coach Woodson, I love him.  He has to overhaul the line up this off season and figure out how to get the stink off of this program. Blah, blah, blah....it will be beyond awesome if we don't have to have this conversations on this board year after stinking year.  I hate sports.

This team is in the position to win everygame- missed free throws and a non existence 3pt game hurts.  Not to mention, your best on ball defender is hurt.  

Culture and the future is the name of the game.  They have a stud pg coming in, they will be able to develop differently in the offseason.  

Like with Archie, could they get some wins showing zone from time to time?  Unlike Archie, this is not a packline gimmick defense and with the right pieces will be the cornerstone.

Woodson's offese is similar to Villanova and once they get the right pieces, and the kid from overseas could be a big piece, I beleive the foundation is there to take off.

They have a coach on the sideline who ran the Princeton Offense, they have a coach with Izzos playbook, they have a coach who changed thr NBA offensive look.  They know offense and now its all about foundations for the program.  A major issue, who has won before on this team?  That is the question....all transfers never won, IU players left from Archie never won.  

[jefftheref]

I didn't watch the last two games and I watched very little of the Wisconsin game. Same sh??, different day.

I am not impressed with this coaching staff and the play of this team and the leadership is no better than the last regime.

It's amazing other schools can get a new coaching staff and you see immediate improvement. Not us. It must be because we are Indiana!

We don't deserve to be in the tournament. Quite frankly this team along with the previous five years teams  are bottom feeders. Inferior talent along with incompetent coaching.

[Hoosier51]

20 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I mean, you're quoting someone who has been over the top negative towards this program for years. I don't think any reasonable IU fan thinks that CMW's on the hot seat, or anywhere close to it. Despite all of the frustrations, there are plenty of positives to point out from this season.

  I'm frustrated with Coach Woodson at times, especially with his substitutions, having all starters out twice and we end up losing the lead. Also it seems like this team is never ready to play the last 5 or 10 minutes of the game which goes back to not being mentally tough and falls back on everyone, players and coaches. But like you said there is no way he is on the hot seat or that he should be on it. As frustrated as I am, and to be honest not completely sold on him he deserves time to get things going. 👍

Edited February 16, 2022 by Hoosier51

[tdhoosier]

19 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Sure, you'd like to see some shoot more than others, but to me it's somewhat like the Archie years...If you run the offense, and a player gets an open shot, then I think the coach has done his job for the most part...Isn't that the point of running an offense? 

Teams have come to the conclusion that they can double Trayce at will with XJ or Galloway's man...They're still sticking to Kopp and Stewart,,,Bilas even pointed it out last night when Davison wouldn't leave Stewart to double TJD...

And this is the trap we keep falling into as we tip toe around the coaching. We talk about one situation in the game. To your first point, we didn’t get an open shot other than the ones the defense baited us into. The defense was controlling that situation. So no, the coaching staff didn’t do it’s job. Especially when the only open shot we get out of the last timeout was P-Stew hoisting up a contested shot 5 feet beyond the 3 point line. Poor execution at this point in the season (again with veteran players) is not a fluke when it happens over and over - it’s a habit. Good habits and bad habits are a result of coaching. 

But beyond that, many bad calls from the bench were made that helped guide us into these close situations, which I highlighted in my original post. 

I’m not calling for Woody’s head. I like Woody and want him to succeed. But @IUFLA, can you honestly say the in game coaching has been close to ‘good’ lately? Does coaching not have anything to do with our loses? 

Edited February 16, 2022 by tdhoosier

[IUCrazy2]

45 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I like Woodson too but if we don’t make the dance this season it’s going to be nearly impossible for him to ever recover.  It’s just the way it is with this fan base when you hire a coach with no track record at the college level whatsoever .  He’s just never going to get the benefit of the doubt when things go south.  The apathy is here and the part where the fans start rooting for loses to pile up is almost here.  Sad.

Woodson has a shelf life no matter what.  We knew that when he was hired.  I think missing the tournament this year would be a bad year.  Even with the deficiencies on this team, we gave away several games we should have won.

You have to roll with what you got.  I was excited to get back into this year and now I am sinking back into the apathy.  That doesn't mean calling for Woodson's head at this point, it just means not really fully engaging.  I long ago gave up scheduling around the games.  Then I started to DVR and only watch wins.  Then I slowly moved to DVR and they just sat there unwatched no matter what because the games were frankly boring.  I will probably be reverting back to that until I see a reason to be excited again.  And frankly, "so and so is coming, help is on the way..." does not excite me anymore.  We talk these guys up every summer and it is just a big disappointment when it matters.  

Think of the things we discussed this summer that were supposedly being worked on that would make us better.  I can't really think of one thing that needed work that has consistently gotten better.  Not one.  And not one of the new guys that was getting hyped has proven to be that much of a difference maker.

IU basketball is nothing but a hype machine anymore.  All style and no substance.  We got the social media game down pat.  Gameday experience is there.  And for the majority of the past 20 years that has all been lipstick on a pig.  I would say run some guys off, but you are just going to end up with another group of castaways. 

We are Iowa now with the misfortune of having the older portion of our fanbase that knows what it is like to be Duke and Kentucky.  Nobody is ever happy when you go from filet mignon to hamburger and hot dogs.

[Hoosier51]

 The one thing that frustrates me the most is that this team while not the most talented still has enough talent to be a tourney team but is starting to look like they might miss it again. And next season MIGHT not be any better, there is a good possibility Trayce, Race and Rob are gone. Coach Woodson needs to kill it with the portal this off season.

 

 

 

[NCHoosier32]

so i was devastated when Woodson was hired.  then when i saw the staff assembled, recruits, transfers, guys staying, and all the excitement around, i was greatly encouraged.  while i have been very skeptical from the start, i don't see declaring he wasn't the answer or that he isn't getting the job done after less than a season.  at the same time, college basketball is kind of built so that you can turn things around quickly with recruiting and the transfer portal.  hard to have as much patience these days.  also, i know many disagree, but would we really have won less games with Miller coaching this season?  i guess maybe?  i still say our pre conference record would have been the same.  either way, i also don't understand the concept of ever stopping watching games or stop cheering for wins!