Wisconsin Post Game

[tdhoosier]

4 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

this team while not the most talented still has enough talent to be a tourney team

Exactly. Simply stated. 

[IUCrazy2]

56 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And I got so sick hearing Benedetti say "Wisconsin has won 22 of the last 25" I could die...He never mentioned the fact that even with that since 1950 IU leads the series 82-44...

Yeah that is annoying but recent history becomes more important.  Those games from the 80's where we were in the middle of winning like 40 straight don't really mean much when a punk ass is on your court having won 22 of the last 25 telling your fans bye.

The history is nice, but at a certain point you want to live in the here and now.  I am 43.  I was in middle school in 1992.  I was 23 when we made our run in 2002.  The only other years that were really worth much since then were because of Cody Zeller and even that ended in a massive disappointment.  One that you could probably deal with if not for the fact that they were about the only years where IU was anything close to a contender in the last 20.

And if you have certain beliefs, about the only attachment you have to IU anymore is the sports teams and your memories.  I laugh when an 812-855 number shows up on the caller ID.  Y'all aren't getting a dime from me.  The whole school has been ineptly run for a long time.  The people that run the place should be on their knees thanking the good lord they had the fortune of being grandfathered into one of the two big conferences because with our athletic teams of the past 20 years, we would be scrambling to build facilities and compete in the Big East.

We should have paid players a long time ago.  They threw out everything else about Bobby Knight but stuck with the one thing that would keep the sports teams from being competitive.  Because we are a cheap school.

Edited February 16, 2022 by IUCrazy2

[IU Scott]

What scares me is if Woodson can't turn this around then the program is deep $hit.  We have seen the last few years that big time coaches are staying where they are at.  They are not moving to the so called blue bloods so if not Woodson then who?

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Yeah that is annoying but recent history becomes more important.  Those games from the 80's where we were in the middle of winning like 40 straight don't really mean much when a punk ass is on your court having won 22 of the last 25 telling your fans bye.

The history is nice, but at a certain point you want to live in the here and now.  I am 43.  I was in middle school in 1992.  I was 23 when we made our run in 2002.  The only other years that were really worth much since then were because of Cody Zeller and even that ended in a massive disappointment.  One that you could probably deal with if not for the fact that they were about the only years where IU was anything close to a contender in the last 20.

And if you have certain beliefs, about the only attachment you have to IU anymore is the sports teams and your memories.  I laugh when an 812-855 number shows up on the caller ID.  Y'all aren't getting a dime from me.  The whole school has been ineptly run for a long time.  The people that run the place should be on their knees thanking the good lord they had the fortune of being grandfathered into one of the two big conferences because with our athletic teams of the past 20 years, we would be scrambling to build facilities and compete in the Big East.

We should have paid players a long time ago.  They through out everything else about Bobby Knight but stuck with the one thing that would keep the sports teams from being competitive.  Because we are a cheap school.

I would rather go through these kind of years than win by cheating.

[IUFLA]

17 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I’m not calling for Woody’s head. I like Woody and want him to succeed. But @IUFLA, can you honestly say the in game coaching has been close to ‘good’ lately? Does coaching not have anything to do with our loses? 

I don't know...I'm not in practices...I get to see about 1/100th of what goes on between coaches and players...'

But I do know this...It's not beyond the pale to ask a Division 1 guard to shoot 34%...ANY Division 1 guard...

And, had we done that with our guards last night, we would have won...

Until we upgrade our guard play, that's the situation we're in unfortunately...

[IUFLA]

7 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I laugh when an 812-855 number shows up on the caller ID.  Y'all aren't getting a dime from me.  The whole school has been ineptly run for a long time. 

Don't we have a new President and AD (who are both said to be pro strong, winning athletic programs) in addition to a new coach? Change takes time...

[IUJoe]

16 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

so i was devastated when Woodson was hired.  then when i saw the staff assembled, recruits, transfers, guys staying, and all the excitement around, i was greatly encouraged.  while i have been very skeptical from the start, i don't see declaring he wasn't the answer or that he isn't getting the job done after less than a season.  at the same time, college basketball is kind of built so that you can turn things around quickly with recruiting and the transfer portal.  hard to have as much patience these days.  also, i know many disagree, but would we really have won less games with Miller coaching this season?  i guess maybe?  i still say our pre conference record would have been the same.  either way, i also don't understand the concept of ever stopping watching games or stop cheering for wins! 

Would we have won less games with Miller this year?  Well, TJD wouldn’t be here, so I’d say yes.  Much, much less.

[dbmhoosier]

13 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

so i was devastated when Woodson was hired.  then when i saw the staff assembled, recruits, transfers, guys staying, and all the excitement around, i was greatly encouraged.  while i have been very skeptical from the start, i don't see declaring he wasn't the answer or that he isn't getting the job done after less than a season.  at the same time, college basketball is kind of built so that you can turn things around quickly with recruiting and the transfer portal.  hard to have as much patience these days.  also, i know many disagree, but would we really have won less games with Miller coaching this season?  i guess maybe?  i still say our pre conference record would have been the same.  either way, i also don't understand the concept of ever stopping watching games or stop cheering for wins! 

I’ve said it a million times but with the IU fan base being what it is you must hire a coach with street cred.  Someone who is one of top 10-15 X’s and O’s guy in college basketball and with the results to prove it.  Someone who has the resume to shut up the fans when things go astray for a bit.  No one else will ever succeed here.

Unfortunately the disconnect between the administration and the fans is so massive I’m not sure there’s ever a real solution.  There’s only one guy out there that would satisfy both the fans and the administration and he’s not interested.  The administration is too incompetent to hire a Pearl, Drew, Marshall, Pitino, etc.  It will just never happen.  I’m afraid we’re stuck in permanent purgatory.

[IUCrazy2]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I would rather go through these kind of years than win by cheating.

Good for you, at this point, I would have liked to win.  And frankly I don't even believe it was cheating because the NCAA did not give a flying f about it.  That is clear.  Their most high profile teams were all in on balls to the wall cheating but it was all good because they were still getting the biggest piece of the pie.  And the people who finally got busted were charged not with cheating, but with defrauding the Universities which is nothing but a sick joke.  Anyone who has followed college basketball could tell you who was cheating for 25 years now.  The universities knew, the NCAA knew, the players know, and the fans know and the only people that cared were programs like ours that cling to an era that stopped existing in the late 80's.  And funny enough, that also coincides with the last time this program was consistently competitive in this sport.

[IUCrazy2]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Don't we have a new President and AD (who are both said to be pro strong, winning athletic programs) in addition to a new coach? Change takes time...

The sports programs are the tip of the iceberg for me.  The other discussion goes into a verboten topic for this forum, and nothing about the new President, BOT, and current leadership at the school  leads me to believe that is changing ever.

[Euroclydon]

Last night IU would have a burst offensively with some good D and start to pull away. Then a turnover, a foul, a missed open shot or some other misfortune (or all of the above) would pop up to keep Wis close. That's the story of the season so far. They do not have the ability to separate and build a lead from most good teams and when the game is on the line they don't have the shooters or play makers to get it done. While other teams can work the ball and come up with either an easy basket or open shot, which they will hit, IU is an uphill climb all the way. They not only have to outplay the other team, they have to overcome all their own repeated mistakes.

One thing that bothers me and has shown up in multiple games. IU will be on a roll and then there is an on floor incident that causes them to lose focus. Dbag for wisconsin instigates a face-to-face exchange and IU forgets about the game and now it's a man-to-man challenge.  After the technical Parker lost his cool and although it was partly a flop, there was a push off. Why? You haven't seen the Davison playbook before? You didn't see this coming? Whether it's Parker or X or someone else, they get sidetracked with the extracurricular. I knew it wouldn't be two minutes before Parker either committed a foul or a turnover after the technical. Him and X have issues staying composed. I appreciate the fight and the no back down attitude, but it hasn't resulted in many positive plays for IU this season. 

 

[twenty02]

44 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Woodson has a shelf life no matter what.  We knew that when he was hired.  I think missing the tournament this year would be a bad year.  Even with the deficiencies on this team, we gave away several games we should have won.

You have to roll with what you got.  I was excited to get back into this year and now I am sinking back into the apathy.  That doesn't mean calling for Woodson's head at this point, it just means not really fully engaging.  I long ago gave up scheduling around the games.  Then I started to DVR and only watch wins.  Then I slowly moved to DVR and they just sat there unwatched no matter what because the games were frankly boring.  I will probably be reverting back to that until I see a reason to be excited again.  And frankly, "so and so is coming, help is on the way..." does not excite me anymore.  We talk these guys up every summer and it is just a big disappointment when it matters.  

Think of the things we discussed this summer that were supposedly being worked on that would make us better.  I can't really think of one thing that needed work that has consistently gotten better.  Not one.  And not one of the new guys that was getting hyped has proven to be that much of a difference maker.

IU basketball is nothing but a hype machine anymore.  All style and no substance.  We got the social media game down pat.  Gameday experience is there.  And for the majority of the past 20 years that has all been lipstick on a pig.  I would say run some guys off, but you are just going to end up with another group of castaways. 

We are Iowa now with the misfortune of having the older portion of our fanbase that knows what it is like to be Duke and Kentucky.  Nobody is ever happy when you go from filet mignon to hamburger and hot dogs.

 

We'd be lucky to be as good as Iowa at this point.  I think they are going to their 3rd straight tourney.  When did we last go to the tourney 3 years in a row?  I'm too depressed to look.  

[Euroclydon]

Someone close to CMW needs to let him know the fans watch the press conferences after games. You have to offer more than "I need to help them...".

CMW's duagther's maybe? Talk to him. IU fans understand exactly what is going on with the team. We don't need canned responses for every loss. We appreciate straight forward answers. We understand coaches can't say some things or call out too many players each game, but we need more than, "I've go to  get them over the hump."

The point is, you can't say the same things over and over while losses pile up and expect the fans to accept it. 

 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

Someone close to CMW needs to let him know the fans watch the press conferences after games. You have to offer more than "I need to help them...".

CMW's duagther's maybe? Talk to him. IU fans understand exactly what is going on with the team. We don't need canned responses for every loss. We appreciate straight forward answers. We understand coaches can't say some things or call out too many players each game, but we need more than, "I've go to  get them over the hump."

The point is, you can't say the same things over and over while losses pile up and expect the fans to accept it. 

 

Dude.. its year 1. Relax. 

[HoosierDPU95]

25 games! That's all it took for the "we should have hired Marshal, Pearl, blah blah blah" banter to kick it. Unbelievable. The new staff had to scramble to re-recruit players from last years team, cobble together parts from the portal (late in the game), teach the team a new system, plus have a head coach adjust to the college game. Some folks act like we started with a fully stocked pantry and botched making dinner when in reality all we had were some stale crackers, a few cans of tomato soup, and some canned tuna.

Is this staff "the answer"? Only time will tell and it certainly needs to be more time than 25 flipping games. Just look at the conference standings. EVERY team ahead of us has one thing in common, solid to exceptional guard play but sure, Marshall/Pearl/Pitino would have totally fixed that this year. Good grief. Talent (especially at the 1-3) is 90% of recipe for success.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, AxnJxn said:

I'd really be interested in clarity on whether that out of bounds play is allowed to be reviewed in the manner that it was. It doesn't really matter if they got the call right if that part of it wasn't supposed to be reviewed.

Also, what I find really odd is that we're a really tough team defensively, which usually means mental strength, yet we don't seem to have any of that. We've been completely taken out of our game in the last two contests because our opponents are pushing buttons and getting results from that. It doesn't matter how many wings or how much talent you bring in if that doesn't change.

It is not a reviewable play. And even if it was, there wasn’t conclusive evidence the ball didn’t hit out of bounds (we never got a baseline camera angle).

And even if it was reviewable and was conclusive, it should have been a jump ball. You can’t award a team possession on what was a loose ball. 

[Hoosier51]

1 minute ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

That's all it took for the "we should have hired Marshal, Pearl, blah blah blah" banter to kick it

Ok admittedly I might have missed it, but I haven't seen many on here say this. Some are frustrated with this team, players and coaches deservedly so, but most know he deserves time to turn it around.

[tdhoosier]

49 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I don't know...I'm not in practices...I get to see about 1/100th of what goes on between coaches and players...'

But I do know this...It's not beyond the pale to ask a Division 1 guard to shoot 34%...ANY Division 1 guard...

And, had we done that with our guards last night, we would have won...

Until we upgrade our guard play, that's the situation we're in unfortunately...

I enjoy the debate and your perspective as always. Last thing I will say because I'm beginning to beat a dead horse.....

Would we have even been in last night's end of game situation if (for example) we didn't consume 5-6 minutes with a line-up who didn't have a legitimate scoring threat on the floor? I'm not disputing your point about shooting, but just emphasizing that it was not the only reason we lost last night. Wins and losses are a result of many factors, each deserving of their own praises and criticisms. 

And to @Hoosier51's point: 'Talent' is relative, so we need to put it in context. The two 'in context' questions about talent that I can't shake are:

1. Do we have better talent on this year's roster vs. last year's? 

2. Do we have enough talent to make the tournament? 

My answer is 'yes' to both of those questions. So, if we follow the same trajectory as last year and don't make the tournament, we can't solely blame a lack of talent. TJD is on the mid-season Naismith list. Race is one of best two way players in the B1G. One week ago some were lauding XJ as one fo the best point guards in the B1G. Most teams have talent gaps in their roster, but good coaches find ways to cover up these deficiencies. At some point the narrative needs to be that we are underachieving. I don't find joy in saying this, but it does. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by tdhoosier

[Euroclydon]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Dude.. its year 1. Relax. 

No.

I'm pulling for CMW and the team. I won't relax. He needs to know it's not going to sit well if all he can offer is the same comments over and over. IU fans understand the game and they are tired of watching substandard play. 

[HoosierDPU95]

1 minute ago, Hoosier51 said:

Ok admittedly I might have missed it, but I haven't seen many on here say this. Some are frustrated with this team, players and coaches deservedly so, but most know he deserves time to turn it around.

 

38 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I’ve said it a million times but with the IU fan base being what it is you must hire a coach with street cred.  Someone who is one of top 10-15 X’s and O’s guy in college basketball and with the results to prove it.  Someone who has the resume to shut up the fans when things go astray for a bit.  No one else will ever succeed here.

Unfortunately the disconnect between the administration and the fans is so massive I’m not sure there’s ever a real solution.  There’s only one guy out there that would satisfy both the fans and the administration and he’s not interested.  The administration is too incompetent to hire a Pearl, Drew, Marshall, Pitino, etc.  It will just never happen.  I’m afraid we’re stuck in permanent purgatory.

 

[btownqb]

11 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

No.

I'm pulling for CMW and the team. I won't relax. He needs to know it's not going to sit well if all he can offer is the same comments over and over. IU fans understand the game and they are tired of watching substandard play. 

Lol

Edited February 16, 2022 by btownqb

[Hoosier51]

1 minute ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

 

 

If you have been on this forum for a while that is one person you should take with a grain of salt on his opinion on IU and its coaches. He is an IU fan that is always kind of testy towards the Hoosiers LOL.

[AxnJxn]

11 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It is not a reviewable play. And even if it was, there wasn’t conclusive evidence the ball didn’t hit out of bounds (we never got a baseline camera angle).

And even if it was reviewable and was conclusive, it should have been a jump ball. You can’t award a team possession on what was a loose ball. 

That's what I thought. It's just so strange that no one really complained about it at the time, and I'm sure there won't be any repercussions for the refs. And, yeah, we still had opportunities to win the game and blew it, but that doesn't make it ok for referees to just make things up on the fly. 

[rico]

52 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

What scares me is if Woodson can't turn this around then the program is deep $hit.  We have seen the last few years that big time coaches are staying where they are at.  They are not moving to the so called blue bloods so if not Woodson then who?

In your scenario, we would have to get a young coach that is unproven at this level.

[btownqb]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I enjoy the debate and your perspective as always. Last thing I will say because I'm beginning to beat a dead horse.....

Would we have even been in last night's end of game situation if (for example) we didn't consume 5-6 minutes with a line-up who didn't have a legitimate scoring threat on the floor? I'm not disputing your point about shooting, but just emphasizing that it was not the only reason we lost last night. Wins and losses are a result of many factors, each deserving of their own praises and criticisms. 

And to @Hoosier51's point: 'Talent' is relative, so we need to put it in context. The two 'in context' questions about talent that I can't shake are:

1. Do we have better talent on this year's roster vs. last year's? 

2. Do we have enough talent to make the tournament? 

My answer is 'yes' to both of those questions. So, if we follow the same trajectory as last year and don't make the tournament, we can't solely blame a lack of talent. TJD is on the preseason Naismith list. Race is one of best two way players in the B1G. One week ago some were lauding XJ as one fo the best point guards in the B1G. Most teams have talent gaps in their roster, but good coaches find ways to cover up these deficiencies. At some point the narrative needs to be that we are underachieving. I don't find joy in saying this, but it does. 

3 of our last 4 losses are from teams that are better then us, I think ILL is a lot better. Northwestern game its pretty fair to throw that game out of any equation. 

Didnt like our last possession last night. Obviously no one associated with our basketball team did either. 

Being up 22 and losing bothers me more than this game. We were solid as s*** last night. We just lost. Things to correct, no doubt, but the other team is trying to win, as well. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by btownqb