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16 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Anyone wishing for Trace to be gone is a few shy of a full deck. The kid is all IU and the number one focus for opposing teams film prep. I actually feel bad for his experience while at IU.

I like the post game comment from Johnny Davis about Trace being a great player but not having much help around him.

We can only dream of shooters playing with TJD. All the wide open 3's missed this season on kickouts from the post. I hope we get another shot at UW in the B10T

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51 minutes ago, Indykev said:

The one player that does give a crap about IU, because I talked to him at length about, is the one player as of late some people want gone. TJD.

Anyone wanting Trayce gone is hitting the bottle a little too hard. You can tell he loves IU and his teammates; he will probably go down as one of my favorite Hoosiers of all time.

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47 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Go back and watch a couple of games from that time. It looks an awful like the teams we've watched the last 5 years. Bad, turnovers, bad passing, bad offense.

I guess our memories aren't as good as I thought.  I looked at RMK last 4 years and offensively those teams are a lot better. Those last teams PPG 73, 77, 78,75.  Those teams shot over 37 percent from 3.

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9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I guess our memories aren't as good as I thought.  I looked at RMK last 4 years and offensively those teams are a lot better. Those last teams PPG 73, 77, 78,75.  Those teams shot over 37 percent from 3.

Stats arent everything, look at Carson Wentz  lol.. eye test looks no different than todays team.

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1 hour ago, Officer Obie said:

Why can't we be more like Rutgers? 🤨

I thought the same thing but couldn’t bring myself to post it.  Sucks to be what we have become…a bottom tier team year after year with no reason to believe things will change any time soon.  At least we aren’t Nebraska, yet.

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I absolutely hope TJD comes back. Not expecting it by any means, but would love it. 

I do think there is something to the idea of a team built around TJD and Race maybe not being the best idea, unless Race can drastically improve his 3pt shooting. 

I look at a guy like Grant Williams on my Celtics. Shot 25% from 3 as a rookie, now in his 3rd year is shooting 44%. 

It's not the only needed fix, but I think a team built around two bigs that play together and neither can shoot is not a good idea. 

But I again, I would love TJD to come back. 

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16 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I just didn't enjoy the last few years of the RMK era.  When I look to watch old games, I have a hard time watching anything from 97-01

I agree. This doesn't get talked about too much but I always felt like those last several Knight teams played scared and tight all the time. Not scared of the opponent but scared of making a mistake. To me, this is why that 02 team did so well, they were trained under RMK but were finally allowed to play a little more loose. Coaches have to be able to adapt to the mentality of kids as that changes over time. 

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1 minute ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

If TJD has aspirations of being a solid NBA player, he needs to return for one more year.  Back end 2nd round at best is what I have seen in a mock draft or two recently

I don’t know. Really the only thing that could make him move up any mock draft would be coming back and extending his range to the 3pt line at probably a 35%+ clip. 

Nothing else he can do in college to improve his stock. I'd guess he realizes that and just leaves to go work on that in the G League in an MBA system playing an NBA style of game, unless he's just raking in NIL money. 

Don't get me wrong, I hope he comes back. 

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9 hours ago, BGleas said:

I absolutely hope TJD comes back. Not expecting it by any means, but would love it. 

I do think there is something to the idea of a team built around TJD and Race maybe not being the best idea, unless Race can drastically improve his 3pt shooting. 

I look at a guy like Grant Williams on my Celtics. Shot 25% from 3 as a rookie, now in his 3rd year is shooting 44%. 

It's not the only needed fix, but I think a team built around two bigs that play together and neither can shoot is not a good idea. 

But I again, I would love TJD to come back. 

Me too, although I’m not that overly concerned about it. However, I am curious about what is going through Trayce’s mind. 

The meeting between him and Woody last spring is now infamous. Woody pointed out everything he needed to work on to make the NBA. We beat it to death on here, but we still don’t see a right hand and see don’t see an outside shot. The development of these skills was the reasons TJD stayed. So, if TJD is not developing the way he needs to be (whether that’s Trayce’s fault, the staffs fault or just a result of circumstance - I think it’s the latter) will he look to go elsewhere? A place to go where he doesn’t have to be a 5 (perhaps play complimentary to a legit 5), whether that be another school or the G league? 

All that said, if he does leave and Race stays I think we’ll be in an okay position next season. If anything it may fast forward the transition to an offense we believe Woody wants to implement. 

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34 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I agree. This doesn't get talked about too much but I always felt like those last several Knight teams played scared and tight all the time. Not scared of the opponent but scared of making a mistake. To me, this is why that 02 team did so well, they were trained under RMK but were finally allowed to play a little more loose. Coaches have to be able to adapt to the mentality of kids as that changes over time. 

Yep, completely agree. RMK's last few years were hard to watch. He was always somewhat curmudgeonly, but it was always laced with a sense of humor. He always seemed to have a bit of fun mixed in with his anger, and liked to troll people, like when he brought the donkey on his show to reference Purdue and so forth. I think the lack of success on the court + the pressure he was getting from the admins of the school translated to someone who was just angry at everything, and it showed in the play on the court.

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56 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I agree. This doesn't get talked about too much but I always felt like those last several Knight teams played scared and tight all the time. Not scared of the opponent but scared of making a mistake. To me, this is why that 02 team did so well, they were trained under RMK but were finally allowed to play a little more loose. Coaches have to be able to adapt to the mentality of kids as that changes over time. 

It also didn't hurt adding Jeffries and Moye, who never played for RMK. 

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37 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Me too, although I’m not that overly concerned about it. However, I am curious about what is going through Trayce’s mind. 

The meeting between him and Woody last spring is now infamous. Woody pointed out everything he needed to work on to make the NBA. We beat it to death on here, but we still don’t see a right hand and see don’t see an outside shot. The development of these skills was the reasons TJD stayed. So, if TJD is not developing the way he needs to be (whether that’s Trayce’s fault, the staffs fault or just a result of circumstance - I think it’s the latter) will he look to go elsewhere? A place to go where he doesn’t have to be a 5 (perhaps play complimentary to a legit 5), whether that be another school or the G league? 

All that said, if he does leave and Race stays I think we’ll be in an okay position next season. If anything it may fast forward the transition to an offense we believe Woody wants to implement. 

Completely agree. 

This isn't a "we're better off without TJD and Race" opinion. Absolutely not. Both are great. 

What I'm saying in a couple threads and sounds like you're saying too, is that offensively it's tough to play well as this roster is currently structured where we basically play around/through two bigs with neither being able to space the floor.

I also don't think that is how Woodson wants to play either, he's alluded to it several times, but this is the roster we have right now and it was built on the fly. 

That is not the only issue with the offense, obviously we need a skill upgrade on the wings, etc., but basketball isn't really played anymore through the post. 

It's up to Woodson and staff now to recruit what he needs. Hopefully he can do it. 

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7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's up to Woodson and staff now to recruit what he needs. Hopefully he can do it. 

I think the question around that is what are reasonable expectations for this to happen? The transfer portal and the (perceived) ease of plugging holes using it, does that accelerate the amount of time expected to turn things around? The portal is almost like free agency in a way.

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23 hours ago, Southern IN Hoosier said:

I will be 28 in March so the only really good team I can remember is 2002. Now I know there are some outliers in there with Zeller, VO, and company but maybe my expectations are just way to high.

I'm sorry.  I am 43 and was in 2nd grade when we last won a title but I at least can remember a whole bunch of years when this program was performing at a peak.  The period you have experienced has been brutal.  

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11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. 

This isn't a "we're better off without TJD and Race" opinion. Absolutely not. Both are great. 

What I'm saying in a couple threads and sounds like you're saying too, is that offensively it's tough to play well as this roster is currently structured where we basically play around/through two bigs with neither being able to space the floor.

I also don't think that is how Woodson wants to play either, he's alluded to it several times, but this is the roster we have right now and it was built on the fly. 

That is not the only issue with the offense, obviously we need a skill upgrade on the wings, etc., but basketball isn't really played anymore through the post. 

It's up to Woodson and staff now to recruit what he needs. Hopefully he can do it. 

I try to be careful not to lean into TJD too hard about his development, or lack of. I truly believe this is due to the circumstances of the way our roster is currently put together. He needs to play a role for us that he can't possibly play in the NBA, but he continues to do so because I truly believe he just wants to win. He doesn't complain about it. He accepts responsibility for his bad games. I think these traits do deserve to be recognized and celebrated bu Hoosier Nation. Ironically, these are also the reasons I'm torn about TJD staying another year. TJD is handcuffed. Woody is handcuffed. It may be better, for both parties, for him to leave.

"Some birds aren't meant to be caged, their feathers are too bright" - Red

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17 hours ago, Indykev said:

The suspensions were just the kick to the nuts of this season and it gave fans a look to why this team is so inconsistent. It also, on a good note, showed us CMW isn't going to take any crap. The one player that does give a crap about IU, because I talked to him at length about, is the one player as of late some people want gone. TJD.

Anybody who wants him gone next year is certifiable.  If he leaves, next year is going to be rough IMO.  If we could convince him to stay, I think we could build from this year and have a good year.  

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5 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Anybody who wants him gone next year is certifiable.  If he leaves, next year is going to be rough IMO.  If we could convince him to stay, I think we could build from this year and have a good year.  

Absolutely! Definitely want him to stay. I just think the TJD/Race combo sort of handcuffs the offense to an extent, unless one of them develops a reliable, consistent spot up 3pt shot. 

May that also eases by getting more dynamic wings and guards that are multi-skilled and are real threats to shoot and attack. 

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16 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I guess our memories aren't as good as I thought.  I looked at RMK last 4 years and offensively those teams are a lot better. Those last teams PPG 73, 77, 78,75.  Those teams shot over 37 percent from 3.

I was on campus for those last few years and the thing that we lacked was interior play, particularly athletic interior play.  Haston was just starting to blossom when Knight was fired and he had landed Jefferies, Newton, and to a lesser degree George Leach.  We had a good system and a few pretty darn good guards we were just running William Gladness and Larry Richardson out there in the post and they were undersized and just more role players.

I will say this, you look at the roster for 1998-1999 and I guarantee you that every coach we have had since Knight, except maybe Sampson, would not have won as many games.

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