OSU Post Game Thread

[IUCrazy2]

4 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Who else are going to put on Branham? That would have been Trey Galloway's man THE ENTIRE GAME! Not having Galloway last night was ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING! 

We always have key pieces out.  Always.

I saw on another site that our record winning percentage in February going back to the 2016/17 season is 33%.  This programs calling card is faltering down the stretch.  We falter down the stretch of games and we falter down the stretch of seasons.

I am not throwing in the towel on Woodson but this past month has not done anything to move my fan needle in a positive direction.  You cannot even point to "well we got better over the year..."  And I am so tired of the help is on the way BS.  Kopp, Stewart, Bates, and Johnson were supposed to be the help.  Johnson has been the only guy that was as advertised.  I stopped following recruiting much because it is the same crap year after year, just different names.  "This guy is the missing piece..."  WTF ever. 

Bad sign when I am already skipping games in the first year and feeling like it was a good decision.

[IUwins0708]

When you change coaches and have the same problems as before, maybe it is the players.  I love them for choosing IU but there is no toughness whatsoever in this team.  Trayce, Kopp, Durr, and even Race to an extent are all soft players.  Our toughest player is Trey and it’s not even close.  That goes both mentally and physically.  Race cost us this game on the defensive side of the ball.  You could see Woody getting into him a good bit at the end of regulation.  He’s constantly lost on D.  Trayce, well he is what he is.  He’s a good, not great player.  To put it better, he is a second option type player.  These guys all seem so distracted with other stuff around them.  Go Hoosiers!

[IUwins0708]

9 hours ago, Inequality said:

Woodson is here because of Isaiah Thomas. Period.

Quinn Buckner

[dbmhoosier]

10 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Losing programs with rotten cultures have a knack for finding ways to lose. I'm sorry, but if you're an NCAA tournament team you HAVE to win when you're up 4 with the ball and 1:30 left. Take any team from the field of 68 and I bet more than half of them win in that scenario. 

 

Been saying this for awhile now, but I'm not sure this program ever gets fixed. 

I'm not sure the administration wants it fixed.  At some point you have to start to believe that this is all by design.  It's hard to believe at this point that anyone could be this incompetent by accident. 

[madmax]

Disappointing loss. Tourney hopes hanging by a thread. I’m a masochist, so I’ll keep watching, but it’s going to take a serious turn around at this point to make it in.

[IUwins0708]

Last thing I’ll ask.  When was the last true leader, and by leader I mean on the floor?? Not saying it has to be a point guard but the last leader I can think of is Yogi.  He wasn’t afraid to get into people when they messed up.  We have nobody to do that.  No leaders within the players that I’ve seen.  Fake leaders, no true leaders though.

[BGleas]

Yikes! I'm a big believer that guard/wing talent is largely responsible for this, but also at some point the coaching staff has to try some different things beyond 'force it to TJD and stand around.'

 

[OLDIUFAN]

How many possessions does K-pop come down stands in the corner doesn’t crash the board for rebound’s doesn’t move out into passing lanes, just kind of stands there! Steward kind of same thing just stands on the wing. That’s why those two are easily guarded! 
poor shooting is our weakness! Makes everything else a struggle! 

[IUCrazy2]

2 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

Last thing I’ll ask.  When was the last true leader, and by leader I mean on the floor?? Not saying it has to be a point guard but the last leader I can think of is Yogi.  He wasn’t afraid to get into people when they messed up.  We have nobody to do that.  No leaders within the players that I’ve seen.  Fake leaders, no true leaders though.

So my take on the program culture...we have passive guys on the team but I think the issue is deeper than that.

We have guys on the team who get treated like they joined the Duke or UK program but they are really walking into Rutgers.  I think all of the pageantry and ass kissing that goes on with the program has become detrimental to the on court product.  We don't have junk yard dogs on the court because the program recruits and develops French poodles.  I think that is particularly true of the local (Indiana) guys we have had on the team more often than not.  They walk in treated like royalty and nobody in this program has done much to earn that.  Access to cool apartments, state of the art facilities, people falling over themselves to throw them money and for what?  Not one guy in this program has made the tournament.  Not one.

Are guys putting up shots in the offseason and between games?  A big thing we heard about our last really good run was how much time guys like Hulls and Oladipo were putting in to improve their game.  In fact, there was speculation they did so much that it "wore them out".  (I think that is nonsense but whatever.)  I just feel we have a participation trophy culture and so we get participation trophy results.  These guys can suck ass for 4 years and they still get all the trappings of being an IU player and EVERYTHING they get was earned by guys who have not been on campus in over 20 years and who also won games without half the creature comforts this current crop has.

These dudes start on third base at Indiana, think they did something, and never put in the required effort to get home.

 

[ThePaulieWalnuts]

11 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Losing programs with rotten cultures have a knack for finding ways to lose. I'm sorry, but if you're an NCAA tournament team you HAVE to win when you're up 4 with the ball and 1:30 left. Take any team from the field of 68 and I bet more than half of them win in that scenario. 

 

Been saying this for awhile now, but I'm not sure this program ever gets fixed. 

Granted it's Woodson's first year, I don't think it can be fixed.

Edited February 22, 2022 by ThePaulieWalnuts

[IUwins0708]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

So my take on the program culture...we have passive guys on the team but I think the issue is deeper than that.

We have guys on the team who get treated like they joined the Duke or UK program but they are really walking into Rutgers.  I think all of the pageantry and ass kissing that goes on with the program has become detrimental to the on court product.  We don't have junk yard dogs on the court because the program recruits and develops French poodles.  I think that is particularly true of the local (Indiana) guys we have had on the team more often than not.  They walk in treated like royalty and nobody in this program has done much to earn that.  Access to cool apartments, state of the art facilities, people falling over themselves to throw them money and for what?  Not one guy in this program has made the tournament.  Not one.

Are guys putting up shots in the offseason and between games?  A big thing we heard about our last really good run was how much time guys like Hulls and Oladipo were putting in to improve their game.  In fact, there was speculation they did so much that it "wore them out".  (I think that is nonsense but whatever.)  I just feel we have a participation trophy culture and so we get participation trophy results.  These guys can suck ass for 4 years and they still get all the trappings of being an IU player and EVERYTHING they get was earned by guys who have not been on campus in over 20 years and who also won games without half the creature comforts this current crop has.

These dudes start on third base at Indiana, think they did something, and never put in the required effort to get home.

 

This is awesome and absolutely correct!

[OLDIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

This is awesome and absolutely correct!

absolutely correct!,

[Seeking6]

Only way out this trap is recruiting and I'm positive our staff will address that in a month. For the time being we've got to figure out a way to get out of this toxicity trap we all have created.

 

 

 

[Hippopotamo]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

So my take on the program culture...we have passive guys on the team but I think the issue is deeper than that.

We have guys on the team who get treated like they joined the Duke or UK program but they are really walking into Rutgers.  I think all of the pageantry and ass kissing that goes on with the program has become detrimental to the on court product.  We don't have junk yard dogs on the court because the program recruits and develops French poodles.  I think that is particularly true of the local (Indiana) guys we have had on the team more often than not.  They walk in treated like royalty and nobody in this program has done much to earn that.  Access to cool apartments, state of the art facilities, people falling over themselves to throw them money and for what?  Not one guy in this program has made the tournament.  Not one.

Are guys putting up shots in the offseason and between games?  A big thing we heard about our last really good run was how much time guys like Hulls and Oladipo were putting in to improve their game.  In fact, there was speculation they did so much that it "wore them out".  (I think that is nonsense but whatever.)  I just feel we have a participation trophy culture and so we get participation trophy results.  These guys can suck ass for 4 years and they still get all the trappings of being an IU player and EVERYTHING they get was earned by guys who have not been on campus in over 20 years and who also won games without half the creature comforts this current crop has.

These dudes start on third base at Indiana, think they did something, and never put in the required effort to get home.

 

I think your first paragraph is an especially great point. I have a weird comparison but bear with me here. 
 

After I graduated from IU, I went to a music conservatory for my Master’s degree. This school has an incredible history and tradition as being one of the best music schools around, but it’s obvious to me that it isn’t the case anymore. What was telling however, was a lot of the students (especially undergrads) who went there acted like they had already “made it,” and that couldn’t have been further from the truth. Those students would then goof off and not work hard in an industry where making a full-time living is incredibly unlikely. Another funny observation during my time there was the administration acted like we were a top level school as well, which I’m sure didn’t help the students stay grounded and focused on their pursuit of becoming a professional musician. 

[OLDIUFAN]

About how hard Hulls and Oladipo worked. I read one time that Larry Bird shot so many shots during the off season that there were spots on the floor that if he was there he could make the shot with out seeing the rim! Just by muscle memory. 

[Zuckerkorn]

11 hours ago, BGleas said:

We need a massive upgrade in talent at the point guard and both wing spots. 

We need a team that is not built around a post oriented offense. 

I'm a supporter of this staff. But, you don't hire a 63 year old lifetime NBA guy and bring in Thad Matta to consult, and the staff that's been built, for a 4 year build. 

You bring those guys in for a fast turnaround built around getting players (by players I mean ballers) fast. 

I'm not saying completely cleanhouse, but this roster also isn't where it needs to be. You don't win Big Ten Titles with a roster that has zero NBA players on it. 

 

In the past half day this post has dominated my reflection on last night's game.

Not only do I agree fully with this but it really backs up what I see as the primary cause for our current plight: Archie Miller was a major failure in terms of recruiting.  Period!

His 4 recruiting classes featured ONE player capable of making and sticking on an NBA roster (Romeo Langford) and not only did that happen in his "honeymoon period", but it's very possible RL wouldn't even have come to IU if Louisville hadn't been caught cheating (yet again). 

I suspect no team in the B10 has sent fewer players to the NBA than IU in the past 4 or 5 seasons, and as BG says you don't win without them.

Beyond that you have RT & TJD and more busts than you can shake a stick at.  What CAM left was, essentially 1 B10 quality starter (perhaps 2 if you count Race) and a bunch of backups and role or spot players.

I'm so critical of CAM's recruiting that I have serious doubts about every one of them still here and the one coming next fall.  I hope Geronimo can develop significantly, but right now he's mediocre player with incredible athleticism.  Duncomb has miles to go it appears.  Leal is probably a spark off the bench type player at best. 

I don't know what to say about RP.  He does play very good defense for sure.  His offense has been inconsistent and unfortunately he's frequently injured. The kid has been snake bit.

Woodson seems to be having some success with HS recruiting, hopefully two difference makers are already signed, but his portal results are mixed at best.

I keep coming back to the belief that MW knows what type of players he needs to play his game.  He also knows he doesn't have those pieces at this point.  It all comes down to "sense of urgency" and how aggressive he's wiiling to be in churning the roster (and how much leeway Dolson & others will allow).  The improvements have to be made in "chunks" not bits and pieces.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Zuckerkorn

[Steubenhoosier]

Don't believe that the sky is falling.

Don't believe that it will never "get fixed."

Do believe that we need a massive talent upgrade. Think it will take 2 recruiting classes to get there.

Everyone is upset, especially with the way this one ended. The last 2 minutes of regulation were a cluster.

Putting things in perspective however, other than the Northwestern game, we have lost to teams with equal or better talent in each of the other four games, and to programs with established coaches and cultures. Teams that have been recruited for and built to meet the playing styles that the coaches want to implement, and with players meeting the mentality that the coaches want to foster. CMW is in his first year with a patchwork roster. It's gonna take a little time. All the hand wringing and doom and gloom is overreaction, imo. 

Frankly, it's a tribute to these guys that they have stayed as competitive as they have. Made stupid plays last night and missed shots--yes. Gave up--not at all

[jefftheref]

9 hours ago, bronkonagurski said:

Glad I set the DVR instead of watching. Delete and move on. 🙁

Not a Woodson fan and I have given up watching the games. I sleep much better at night.

Hopefully one of these years it gets better but I don't think it will be in my lifetime.

[IUCrazy2]

35 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

I think your first paragraph is an especially great point. I have a weird comparison but bear with me here. 
 

After I graduated from IU, I went to a music conservatory for my Master’s degree. This school has an incredible history and tradition as being one of the best music schools around, but it’s obvious to me that it isn’t the case anymore. What was telling however, was a lot of the students (especially undergrads) who went there acted like they had already “made it,” and that couldn’t have been further from the truth. Those students would then goof off and not work hard in an industry where making a full-time living is incredibly unlikely. Another funny observation during my time there was the administration acted like we were a top level school as well, which I’m sure didn’t help the students stay grounded and focused on their pursuit of becoming a professional musician. 

Not a weird comparison at all.  I think it is a spot on comparison to where the basketball program at Indiana is right now.  It takes work to be good at your craft, just landing at a prestigious place is not the end point, it is really just the beginning.  

[IUCrazy2]

27 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Don't believe that the sky is falling.

Don't believe that it will never "get fixed."

Do believe that we need a massive talent upgrade. Think it will take 2 recruiting classes to get there.

Everyone is upset, especially with the way this one ended. The last 2 minutes of regulation were a cluster.

Putting things in perspective however, other than the Northwestern game, we have lost to teams with equal or better talent in each of the other four games, and to programs with established coaches and cultures. Teams that have been recruited for and built to meet the playing styles that the coaches want to implement, and with players meeting the mentality that the coaches want to foster. CMW is in his first year with a patchwork roster. It's gonna take a little time. All the hand wringing and doom and gloom is overreaction, imo. 

Frankly, it's a tribute to these guys that they have stayed as competitive as they have. Made stupid plays last night and missed shots--yes. Gave up--not at all

I hope you are right in that better days are ahead.  I hope you are wrong on the timeline.  Another 2 years to just get to the tournament is not something I am really interested in.

One thing though, the sentiments you are sharing right now have been shared repeatedly for the past 20 years.  Help is always on the way, a coach just needs time, etc.  And each time that has ended in failure.  This program is slowly strangling my optimism to death.

[bluegrassIU]

Thre are a lot of really insightful, thoughtful and mature posts in this thread.

Some.of the best discussion I can remember during a tough period.

Not saying I agree with it all, but it is definitely thought provoking stuff.

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Thre are a lot of really insightful, thoughtful and mature posts in this thread.

Some.of the best discussion I can remember during a tough period.

Not saying I agree with it all, but it is definitely thought provoking stuff.

Is this a challenge? or? 🤣

I just want to hit 3s lol if we are going to lose I'd rather lose 100-98. I can't take the 50ppg anymore. 

[bluegrassIU]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Is this a challenge? or? 🤣

.....

No, we have plenty of the "other type" of talk in the Juwan Howard discussion.   🤣

[Hoosierinbham]

17 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Not a weird comparison at all.  I think it is a spot on comparison to where the basketball program at Indiana is right now.  It takes work to be good at your craft, just landing at a prestigious place is not the end point, it is really just the beginning.  

That was a great comparison.  Texas football is another good example. They have a country club culture where players seem to think getting a scholarship and jersey hands them the keys to the club with all the trappings.

[ba43056]

1 hour ago, IUwins0708 said:

Quinn Buckner

Buckner would've been a great successor to RMK. Wittman never being a serious candidate was always surprising. 

I've appreciated CMW's ability to get the team to play defense and in the first year I'm not sure you can expect a lot of continuity offensively so I'm not ready to burn the place down just yet. 

Lets see what year 2 looks like. We'll have 3 McDonalds All-American Guards on the roster next year.