dgambill Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, Reacher said: @dgambill, I think the reason for the Ukranian support has little to due with race, but rather the fact that they are the subject of a large military invasion that if unchecked could breach into other western European countries, set a dangerous post WWII precedent and lead to further destabilization and a potential WW III. Georgia was a backwater with minimal significance. Ukraine has size and relevance. Ethnic and religious minority persecution is a totally separate issue. Yes, both are wrong. Russia needs to be stopped here and now. The world is seeing this. Even China is distancing itself (a bit) from Russia. Hopefully the world wakes up and focuses on other injustices occurring around the world as well. Russia's desent is China's rising. I think they have long been #2 on the world stage but this just strengthens them. They will own 1/2 of Russia by the time this finishes....they love this. I'm all for the support by the way....nothing against it at all...and fully understand the significance of the moment....but will leave my very lengthy post as my defense for what I said. There is a distinct disconnect for many Americans when it comes to the victims in other places in the world vs what we are seeing in Ukraine. JMO. Maybe I'm wrong in how I'm reading people's & businesses reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, dgambill said: Why does that matter...when people are being murdered and human rights violated does it matter only if the person doing it is a top 3 military or it is a nation as a whole? I appreciate your kind words and appreciate your difference of opinion. I understand why you feel the way you do and hold your opinion as you do. No hard feelings at all on the difference in viewing this. I figured it might not be a popular post or position. I've just seen a whole lot of people identifying with the "faces" of those in this conflict.....because they relate to them. I'm not disagreeing that we haven't gone in and done the right thing in the past in some instances....but where is the outpouring of support for Uyghurs in China...I see no sanctions, I see few if any businesses pulling out China, I see few celebrities standing with them and verbalizing/standing against them...and few facebook and media nightly calling for action against it. We have had atrocities over and over in Syria, Cuba, Venezuela, Burma and how many years in Africa where genocide is common...and while our govt has taken various actions the outrage amongst us people has been widely uninterested to say the least imo and media coverage has largely been brief because the images didn't "resonate" with the viewers. All of a sudden these people look like my neighbors and suddenly it is 24/7 coverage, outrage, and desperate prayers and support and global industries and business breaking ties etc. The response and attitude towards it has been strikenly different...and I am would say that I am just as guilty as anyone as how quickly I forget to pray or stop sending donations for those being oppressed...being murdered and suffering. My point wasn't to point fingers at others or purely say this is a racial thing per say (although this in my mind is a natural/subconscious racism even so much that probably can't be changed but ingrained in us)...but to say when the stakes are low...when the bar is low...it is easy to take a stand against Russia....nothing to lose for these businesses and billionaires and the media....but what about when you have something more serious to lose....$$$...because your network has huge ties to say China....or you sell tons of products there...or have a majority of your manufacturing there...suddenly people clam up. Govts waffle. Citizenry when they don't identify with the pictures simply say that's a shame and turn back to another channel or back to their lives. Businesses when they see a chance to earn more $$ or take a financial set back suddenly go quiet or take no real action to punish or stop doing business with these regimes that commit the crimes. They are actually financing the evil...and even myself in a way buy their products and services are also a part of this web...bothers me a lot actually....but like I said I quickly grow numb and forget because the faces don't cry out to me daily and I get distracted by my own life and hardships. I'm not trying to undermine the seriousness of the moment...the gravity and severity of what Putin is doing...but I am taking a moment to point out these are not the only victims....casualties of atrocities in the world. People are still being killed by the Syrian govt with weapons of war....people are still being murdered and encamped by the Chinese govt for their religion. Similarly in Burma. People are still being hunted down in the middle east for being Christian. Women, children, fathers...murdered because they are from a different tribe or religion in Africa. Women and children murdered and raped trying to make it to the US from South and Central America. Murdered and imprisoned in Cuba for speaking against the govt. I guess we could go on all night. Just finish by saying let us remember ALL those suffering...and let us not just pick and choose when we are outraged and standing up to evil...let us do it all the time consistently...and let people/govt really put their money where their mouth is in the same way. To long businesses and our govt saying the right thing in public but taking $$$ and doing business and deals with those committing evil without a thought. I think this is a bit different in the fact that it could be a prelude to WW III. That, in my estimation, is why we have the continuous coverage and interest. Not 😂sure if the examples you cite come close to the immediate urgency we're seeing in the Ukraine. Couple that with the fact you have a nutcase with access to "the big one" and it takes on a whole new significance... especially now that he's painted himself into a corner... I'll stop there to honor my friend, @mrflynn03's brevity request. 🙂 Edited March 2, 2022 by IUFLA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I think this is a bit different in the fact that it could be a prelude to WW III. That, in my estimation, is why we have the continuous coverage and interest. No 😂 f the examples you cite come close to the immediate urgency we're seeing in the Ukraine. Couple that with the fact you have a nutcase with access to "the big one" and it takes on a while new significance... especially now that he's painted himself into a corner... I'll stop there to honor my friend, @mrflynn03's brevity request. 🙂 I agree....I think we 100% agree on the significance of the moment and events happening. I think perhaps in my long winded poorly worded post perhaps I didn't capture what I was trying to get at. It's all good...praying for a conclusion soon and safety of all those in harms way! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 Just now, dgambill said: I agree....I think we 100% agree on the significance of the moment and events happening. I think perhaps in my long winded poorly worded post perhaps I didn't capture what I was trying to get at. It's all good...praying for a conclusion soon and safety of all those in harms way! Yeah, I do understand what you were driving at. But a lot of it has a lot more to do with money than ethnicity I believe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierFaithful Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 If you can't control your emotions, do not post here. It's that simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 I think you’re both right if it’s any consolation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 2 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said: If you can't control your emotions, do not post here. It's that simple. 😭 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 Info on the Russian aviation industry for @IUFLA and others who might be interested- https://unrollthread.com/t/1498723248183382020/ "What does this mean? Russia will be in effect cut off from international travel, perhaps with the notable exception of China. It will be more isolated than the USSR, and even domestic journeys will be severely limited. Sanctions - if drafted well - do work." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Reacher said: Info on the Russian aviation industry for @IUFLA and others who might be interested- https://unroll-thread.com/t/1498723248183382020/ "What does this mean? Russia will be in effect cut off from international travel, perhaps with the notable exception of China. It will be more isolated than the USSR, and even domestic journeys will be severely limited. Sanctions - if drafted well - do work." Guess I don’t get to see my friend anytime soon 😩 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 4 hours ago, dgambill said: I agree....I think we 100% agree on the significance of the moment and events happening. I think perhaps in my long winded poorly worded post perhaps I didn't capture what I was trying to get at. It's all good...praying for a conclusion soon and safety of all those in harms way! I’ve actually seen a lot of what you mentioned in the media and have heard it from friends. The “they look just like normal Europeans, this isn’t the Middle East or Africa” kind of comments. I totally get what you are saying and to some extent agree with you. But I also understand why people feel that way. European and North American people tend not to care that much about the developing world (sh*thole countries) when stuff likes this happens. My wife even got in trouble when she was a teacher in Carmel many years ago, when she taught about Rawanda. Parents came after her big time for exposing their kids to it and wasting their time. I am LOVING how Apple, Nike, and other big companies are stopping sales in Russia. Apparently they don’t even get the new Batman movie this weekend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, Lostin76 said: I am LOVING how Apple, Nike, and other big companies are stopping sales in Russia. Apparently they don’t even get the new Batman movie this weekend. I wish Coca Cola was doing the same. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 3, 2022 Report Share Posted March 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Lostin76 said: I’ve actually seen a lot of what you mentioned in the media and have heard it from friends. The “they look just like normal Europeans, this isn’t the Middle East or Africa” kind of comments. I totally get what you are saying and to some extent agree with you. But I also understand why people feel that way. European and North American people tend not to care that much about the developing world (sh*thole countries) when stuff likes this happens. My wife even got in trouble when she was a teacher in Carmel many years ago, when she taught about Rawanda. Parents came after her big time for exposing their kids to it and wasting their time. I am LOVING how Apple, Nike, and other big companies are stopping sales in Russia. Apparently they don’t even get the new Batman movie this weekend. Agreed. Understand exactly…and I am happy to see everyone get behind it…just wish they would be consistent when it comes to producing their products in China and allowing other rogue regimes to use their services like google/Facebook etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted March 3, 2022 Report Share Posted March 3, 2022 23 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: So I can go to Ukraine and capture a tank? Hell yeah! Relatives of yours? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) I don't think trying to "cancel" Putin is a good strategy, nor is it going to work. Putin doesn't care about companies not dealing with his country...he's got the most essential thing (oil) covered. He doesn't care if his people suffer... All it's going to do without military power to support it, is piss his deranged mind off and set in motion what I think are going to be unimaginable events... I believe he wants to cement his legacy one way or the other, and we need to stand up strongly right now... And we need a 21st century Churchill... Edited March 3, 2022 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 3, 2022 Report Share Posted March 3, 2022 From the American Legion: https://www.legion.org/landingzone/255093/causes-and-consequences-putin’s-war?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=UKRAINE&utm_campaign=Source+Code+Here&utm_term=newsletter 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted March 3, 2022 Report Share Posted March 3, 2022 Some good stuff in here- https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/03/macron-after-call-with-putin-prepare-for-the-worst-in-ukraine-n452700 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 9 hours ago, IUFLA said: I don't think trying to "cancel" Putin is a good strategy, nor is it going to work. Putin doesn't care about companies not dealing with his country...he's got the most essential thing (oil) covered. He doesn't care if his people suffer... All it's going to do without military power to support it, is piss his deranged mind off and set in motion what I think are going to be unimaginable events... I believe he wants to cement his legacy one way or the other, and we need to stand up strongly right now... And we need a 21st century Churchill... So your saying Putin isn’t worried about woke western culture being cut off from him and his people 😆 agreed…although Russian has been effected by western culture…obviously Ukraine significantly has been. Kind of hard to put the genie back in the bottle since communism fell and Russia became westernized. No doubt he has food and oil to heat and feed his people….the other “luxuries” I don’t think he cares about his citizenry not having that. When you live in desperation and hunger and fear you are much easier to control than those who have their needs met etc. As a leader you have the power to lead people with the promise of something better…to fight for that scrap of bread…to obtain what was perceived stolen or owed to you. Stalin did that…controlled his people with starvation and fear and I have no doubt Putin would like to do the same. I do wish we had a leader as you say…I see that column of trucks and I think…we could destroy that easily…totally and end this right now….yet it’s like we are watching these people slowly be murdered and standing by and doing nothing. Really scares me…like watching a loaded train of Jews being shipped off…knowing the won’t be coming back…the outcome. I know I know…he has the nukes…he could go crazy in desperation but in the end I don’t see him stopping this atrocity without our intervention. Is the world going to stand by and watch him murder these people?? Really…we have no resolve to stop it? It should have never come to this and we’ve failed in leadership of all of us (world community)…but that’s the past…the moment is here in front of us now. We are going to just stand by and let this happen. Throw up our hands and say we took away a few yachts and some money…that’s all we can do to deter him and turn him back?? I’m fearful of what it would mean to intervene but I’m more fearful of what will happen to those innocent people if we stand by and their blood is on our hands. Geez the weight of all this… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 8 hours ago, Reacher said: Some good stuff in here- https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/03/macron-after-call-with-putin-prepare-for-the-worst-in-ukraine-n452700 I’m sorry but that sounds like a scared man….don’t you dare intervene…don’t even think about stopping me…he knows if Europe and America quickly mobilized and struck he would be dead in the water….and what would be left of his army…nothing. He is acting this way out of fear…it’s his only card he holds so he is threatening it knowing full well he wouldn’t last 24 hours if we banded together and assaulted. What would be left if he did try to nuke?? The world would be a mess but he wouldn’t have anything left to capitalize with it…and if his rockets are as outdated and inept as the rest of his forces he won’t be effective..and he will in return be wiped off the earth. There is no victory for anyone in a nuclear war…I think he is fearful because he know he is exposed and his army is weak…has to keep people at bay with fear and bravado rather than by the skill and ability of his army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 At the end of the day I don’t think anyone anywhere would follow orders to launch a nuke. Not only would it mean killing millions of people it would no doubt cause retaliation that will kill you and everyone you know. Basically you would be destroying the world as we know it. I can’t think of anyone that is following that order to start that chain reaction. No matter if it was ordered I think at that point his military will turn on him. Maybe I’m wrong…probably a good thing I’m not in charge of the free world…but I just don’t believe if we intervened that would immediately escalate into nuclear war…I dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 10 hours ago, RoadToZion said: JSMH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, rico said: JSMH Giant nuclear hostage to keep Europe out of Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 11 minutes ago, dgambill said: Giant nuclear hostage to keep Europe out of Ukraine. Putin's answer to turning off the light switches in the Ukraine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 I saw a short interview with a Russian stockbroker yesterday on Reddit, and he looked near suicidal. Just dead eyes and flat affect, couldn’t even act like he wasn’t totally drained by this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, Lostin76 said: I saw a short interview with a Russian stockbroker yesterday on Reddit, and he looked near suicidal. Just dead eyes and flat affect, couldn’t even act like he wasn’t totally drained by this. Is he seeking asylum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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