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2022 through 2065 MLB Seasons


5fouls

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The Kershaw thing is both the right thing to do and the wrong thing for baseball.  Obviously, a perfect game is special enough of a thing that you let him go for it.  At the same time, he is older and had broken down the last several years.  Injury risk by over-extending himself would have been significant.

The real problem is in the way pitchers are handled all the way through the system in the modern game.  Except for the rare birds like Scherzer, pitchers simply aren't as able to go as long as they used to.  This needs to be reversed for the good of the game.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

 

The real problem is in the way pitchers are handled all the way through the system in the modern game.  Except for the rare birds like Scherzer, pitchers simply aren't as able to go as long as they used to.  This needs to be reversed for the good of the game.

A few things I would like to add to this.  MLB values their starters more than they used to.  Sports medicine has come a long way in how to handle these starters.  What does it all mean?  I dunno but there were quite a few elite starters from my youth who ended their careers early due to arm problems.  Us "old school" guys  seem to forget about those guys.  

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Listening to Dan Patrick and they were discussing this and it goes back to the pitchers are not trained to throw a lot of pitches.  It is more of a sprint instead of a marathon when it comes to pitchers.  It is about throwing as hard as you can and for long as you can.  

Most of the older guys on there were talking about how pitchers are coddled today and that a lot of the older pitchers put he'd a lot of innings and complete games. A lot of them pitched a lot of years doing this as well and never got injured. Man Ryan at age 44 threw 5 complete games which would have led the league last year.

I am not a fan of watching each team have 5 or 6 pitchers pitch in the game.

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1 hour ago, rico said:

A few things I would like to add to this.  MLB values their starters more than they used to.  Sports medicine has come a long way in how to handle these starters.  What does it all mean?  I dunno but there were quite a few elite starters from my youth who ended their careers early due to arm problems.  Us "old school" guys  seem to forget about those guys.  

On the flip side, there were quite a few pitchers back that regularly pitched 230+ innings year in and year out.  Both elite and just 'good'.  And, frankly, a guy whose career ends at 37 or 38 due to arm trouble doesnt count.  

For every Kerry Wood, there is a Randy Johnson.

300 wins by a starter will never happen again.  Most of those that got to that level did so in 4 man rotations, pitching 230+ innings, getting wins when their team scores 3 runs in the 7th or 8th instead of that win going to a reliever.

The point is that it can be different, but it's not.  And that us not good for the sport.  Yesterday was just an example of that.

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1 minute ago, rico said:

I hate it when teams whine about getting their asses beat.

I agree. Coaching as many games as I have, we have definitely gotten our butts beat before. I don't remember ever having an issue with this type of stuff. Way more worried about our dudes then what the other team was doing. 

I remember being down like 35-10 at the half in a basketball game and I told the other teams coach that if he stopped pressing in the 2nd half, I was going to be pissed lol We won the 2nd half! improvement! 

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3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Listening to Dan Patrick and they were discussing this and it goes back to the pitchers are not trained to throw a lot of pitches.  It is more of a sprint instead of a marathon when it comes to pitchers.  It is about throwing as hard as you can and for long as you can.  

Most of the older guys on there were talking about how pitchers are coddled today and that a lot of the older pitchers put he'd a lot of innings and complete games. A lot of them pitched a lot of years doing this as well and never got injured. Man Ryan at age 44 threw 5 complete games which would have led the league last year.

I am not a fan of watching each team have 5 or 6 pitchers pitch in the game.

 

Not buying it. I coached the youth game and I over pitched my kids, and I wish I was better and more informed in that regard. We threw entirely too many pitches at young ages at one time and in the span of multiple days. 

I'm not sure why we need to throw more pitches, if science is telling us it's not a good thing. 

"the pitchers are not trained to throw a lot of pitches"--- they shouldn't be. They do in their youth though, and that is wrong. 

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47 minutes ago, btownqb said:

 

 

 

Not buying it. I coached the youth game and I over pitched my kids, and I wish I was better and more informed in that regard. We threw entirely too many pitches at young ages at one time and in the span of multiple days. 

I'm not sure why we need to throw more pitches, if science is telling us it's not a good thing. 

"the pitchers are not trained to throw a lot of pitches"--- they shouldn't be. They do in their youth though, and that is wrong. 

To me it shouldn't be the amount of pitches but the problem is that the kids are trying to throw to hard.  Also trying to put more effort to get spin rate on their pitches hurt their arms more than the amount of pitches.  Us older guys have seen a lot of pitchers pitch a lot of years throwing 250-300 innings a year.  Until the last day 20 years is the first time where they even talked about pitch counts during the game.

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10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me it shouldn't be the amount of pitches but the problem is that the kids are trying to throw to hard.  Also trying to put more effort to get spin rate on their pitches hurt their arms more than the amount of pitches.  Us older guys have seen a lot of pitchers pitch a lot of years throwing 250-300 innings a year.  Until the last day 20 years is the first time where they even talked about pitch counts during the game.

Is that what science is telling us? And your 2nd sentence is not true. 

I understand that this is the first time we've seen this as an "issue". But, that is because science has just now caught up to the game? Is there any possibility those guys can throw more as adults because they didn't pitch the amount the kids nowadays are pitching? I'm talking about 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 17 year olds. Those ages have never pitched/played more games then they are now. 

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I really don't have much of an opinion, other then the pitch count stuff is real. And it continues to be a massive problem for our youth. I don't have any information on the effects of large youth pitch counts and injuries later on. 

Ultimately though, Kershaw had no want or need to continue in that game... and to me, that should be enough. 

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12 minutes ago, btownqb said:

 

I understand that this is the first time we've seen this as an "issue". But, that is because science has just now caught up to the game? Is there any possibility those guys can throw more as adults because they didn't pitch the amount the kids nowadays are pitching? I'm talking about 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 17 year olds. Those ages have never pitched/played more games then they are now. 

That is an interesting thought.  I would definitely say that kids play more at a younger age now than they did in my day.  Hell, we didn't even have T-ball.

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29 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me it shouldn't be the amount of pitches but the problem is that the kids are trying to throw to hard.  Also trying to put more effort to get spin rate on their pitches hurt their arms more than the amount of pitches.  Us older guys have seen a lot of pitchers pitch a lot of years throwing 250-300 innings a year.  Until the last day 20 years is the first time where they even talked about pitch counts during the game.

I tried to throw as hard as I could and I threw curve balls 'til my arm hurt.  Kids will be kids.  I will say that kids today probably get better "coaching" nowadays as to what I got in my day.

It really doesn't matter.  The science is just so much "advanced" today.  6 man rotations will appear soon for all clubs.  Starters will go once a week...and still not make it through 6 innings.

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24 minutes ago, rico said:

That is an interesting thought.  I would definitely say that kids play more at a younger age now than they did in my day.  Hell, we didn't even have T-ball.

Oh dude. It's not even close to when I was growing up.  They play so much more. 

Plus an abundance of fall ball opportunities. 

The team I coached.. we had played 6 or so tourneys before school had even gotten out. Plus they were playing two days a week in league ball.  

Edited by btownqb
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28 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I really don't have much of an opinion, other then the pitch count stuff is real. And it continues to be a massive problem for our youth. I don't have any information on the effects of large youth pitch counts and injuries later on. 

Ultimately though, Kershaw had no want or need to continue in that game... and to me, that should be enough. 

I was talking about at the major league level and I have a problem with having major Leaguers on pitch counts

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24 minutes ago, rico said:

That is an interesting thought.  I would definitely say that kids play more at a younger age now than they did in my day.  Hell, we didn't even have T-ball.

We played everyday in my back yard during the summer us playing little league.  Have no idea how many pitches we pitched in a summer.  I was talking about at the major league level and the pitch counts

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I was talking about at the major league level and I have a problem with having major Leaguers on pitch counts

Scott..  every major leaguer was a little leaguer at some point. 

And why is that something that bothers you? I get bored af watching the same dude pitch lol 

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Just now, btownqb said:

Scott..  every major leaguer was a little leaguer at some point. 

And why is that something that bothers you? I get bored af watching the same dude pitch lol 

I rather see the starter finish the game than watching 5 relievers come in.  Just how a lot of my generation saw baseball and how the players back then thought.  Those pit jets from that eta thinks today's pitcher are coddled and soft

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I rather see the starter finish the game than watching 5 relievers come in.  Just how a lot of my generation saw baseball and how the players back then thought.  Those pit jets from that eta thinks today's pitcher are coddled and soft

No, not all of them.  Anyways.. this is going to go no where. 

And maybe you will get to see that more often if we keep their pitch counts down when they are younger. 

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9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I rather see the starter finish the game than watching 5 relievers come in.  Just how a lot of my generation saw baseball and how the players back then thought.  Those pit jets from that eta thinks today's pitcher are coddled and soft

I think you missing the point/speculation that pitchers today have thrown more pitches before they reach the majors.

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