IU @ MN post game thread.

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, Artesian_86 said:

Well said....Also, we need to give Minnesota credit too. They did everything they had to do to cut into that deficit. I know exactly why Coach Woodson was mad at Rob for taking that last quick 3 last night. We were up 25+ and didn't need 3's, especially that early, with that much time on the possession clock. We needed to slow the game down and look for the best high percentage shot available, well into the possession. It takes just one quick outlet pass after a missed 3 for an open 3 on the other end, to build confidence. The game flipped momentum immediately after Rob's missed 3. I also liked that he didn't call time out during Minnesota's run. That was exactly what coach Knight would have done. Coach Woodson wanted his players to fight through it and figure it out. Again, Woodson had confidence in his players that they could weather the storm. That also let the players know that he had faith in them. 

I think in general we (fans) don't respect the other team enough and what they're trying to do. Each team we play wants to win just as badly as we do. 

[DWB]

Just watched the last 10 minutes of the game. From the 8:02 mark, we had 6 turnovers, and they had 8 three's.

Not a receipe for winning. We did play defense during that time, as most of the 3's were contested, but IMO we didn't have the intensity that we had in the 32 minutes before that.

Woody has to keep them focused during those "down" stretches. I'm not sure the team is mentally mature enough to "figure it out". Seems to me they are more confused, ala Phin's quick 3, and 6 turnovers.

[btownqb]

Just now, DWB said:

Just watched the last 10 minutes of the game. From the 8:02 mark, we had 6 turnovers, and they had 8 three's.

Not a receipe for winning. We did play defense during that time, as most of the 3's were contested, but IMO we didn't have the intensity that we had in the 32 minutes before that.

Woody has to keep them focused during those "down" stretches. I'm not sure the team is mentally mature enough to "figure it out". Seems to me they are more confused, ala Phin's quick 3, and 6 turnovers.

You ONLY watched those 10 mins? or you just re-watched them? 

[dgambill]

14 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I almost turned the game off. If anyone else did, they’re gonna spit out their coffee when they read the morning paper. 

lol...no doubt...My wife was killing me trying to get me to give our daughter a bath and I was like....just one minute...as I kept waiting for us to kind knock down a couple shots and end their run and feel safe to turn away. She was like you guys are up 25!! I was like....not anymore lol. Poor kid didn't get to bed til like 10!! 😥

Edited February 28, 2022 by dgambill

[Euroclydon]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Can't be a collapse if we win, right? 

To the bolded statement that I made larger: You aren't seeing that we are trying to play a more perimeter oriented game offensively, currently? We scored 84 pts last night and we didn't just have one massive half and then a crap one. We had two REALLY good halves offensively. 84 is the most we've put up in the conference all year and it was on the road. 

We only had 10TOs, we hit 10 3s at over a 45% clip, we hit FTs reasonably well, they only had 4 Orebs, and in general they didn't get good looks. We played WELL last night. 

"TJD needs to get more done offensively and on the glass" He scored 14p on 7 shots and had 8 rebounds... what more does he need to do? 14p 8r 3a 2s 2b is a great game, he was in the flow of the offense the entire game. We aren't a poor rebounding team, so I don't understand why HE needs to be rebounding better. He is hands down our best rebounder. 

As long as you read only what you want to read and see only what you want to see. Must be a politician. Give up a 27 point lead in about 8 minutes but it's not a collapse. Got it. I guess all is great and no need to worry. And IU is now a high percentage 3pt shooting team and TJD is dominating the conference even if he only gets seven shots in a game. This is the attitude that's led to crap season after crap season. Should fans start booking those Final Four flights? We all want IU to succeed but being realistic makes more sense.

[dgambill]

14 hours ago, rico said:

I was thinking about that UK/LSU game when we were in melt down mode.

I was thinking about the UW game this year...and I think Woody was too..and wanted to see us to figure it out...sadly I don't think any lesson was learned...Minn just ran out of time...and Wisc didn't.

[DWB]

11 minutes ago, btownqb said:

You ONLY watched those 10 mins? or you just re-watched them? 

Sorry...re-watched.

[dgambill]

14 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

A W is a W. No style points at this stage of the season.

Btw, Gophs are the #3 team in the country in 3 point shooting. Get it that it got too close tonight, but they have some shooters. 
 

Better testament that we held them in check for 2/3rds of the game 

We were very lucky...how many wide open threes did the miss earlier in the game. We did not defend the 3pt line very well at all....not til the end and at that point Willis was out of his mind. Guys got lazy and weren't sharp in the final 10 mins and we almost paid for it. You can't just turn it on and off....gotta keep up that intensity for 40 mins in B1G.

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

As long as you read only what you want to read and see only what you want to see. Must be a politician. Give up a 27 point lead in about 8 minutes but it's not a collapse. Got it. I guess all is great and no need to worry. And IU is now a high percentage 3pt shooting team and TJD is dominating the conference even if he only gets seven shots in a game. This is the attitude that's led to crap season after crap season. Should fans start booking those Final Four flights? We all want IU to succeed but being realistic makes more sense.

What in the world? Did you post a stat here? 

You can't "give up a 27 pt lead" if the other team never ends up leading!!! We struggled in the last 8 mins mostly because water finds it's level. Did you actually think we were going to beat Minny by 27 on the road? 

"and IU is now a high % 3pt shooting team and TJD is .." ... what does this mean? We WANT to play the way we played last night moving forward. More perimeter oriented and TJD getting lobs/put backs/few true 1 on 1 post ups. Why does he need more than 7 shots a game if he is going to score 14? 

And finally ... my attitude is what has led to us not winning as many games as we wanted the last 22 years? Got it! Makes perfect sense! 

[dgambill]

Woody is learning what it is like to coach teenagers. Learning the college game. Our team is learning to play not always going through Trayce. It is a work in progress. I do think we could be an interesting team in the tournament with the right matchups.....the B1G has had 3 years to perfect their defense against Trayce. Against a non-conference opponent....if we can get our guards going now and still have Trayce in our back pocket....could even get out of the first weekend.

[dwtaylor1055]

Loved Woody not taking a timeout down the stretch.  Allowed the kids to take a gut punch and still come out with the W.  May not work many other times, but it worked this go around.  

[Inequality]

2 hours ago, Euroclydon said:

They got the W. They looked very sharp for a lot of the game. Another collapse of a large lead. This team is clinging to tournament life and 28 games in I don't see a lot of big changes coming to how they play.

It may be the most we can hope for at this point is they get healthy and one or two guys start figuring it out. Bates and Geronimo were positives last night combining for 15 points, 6 rebounds and ZERO turnovers in 26 minutes. If they can continue to play at that type of level it really helps. 

TJD has to figure out a way to get more done on offense and on the glass. Understanding teams are doubling it's going to take him being more active around the rim to get some put backs. Outside of the 30 points against Wis on 2/15, he hasn't scored 20 points or more since he put up 23 against Nebraska on 1/17. He's also put up double digit rebounds twice over that same time. It is asking a lot but for this team to be successful he has to show up every game in a big way.

While TJD seems to be slowing down XJ seems to be taking off but you really have to look at the numbers. Yes, his points are going up but so are his shot attempts. His actual shooting percentage has not been great outside of his 7 for 7 against Maryland the game before. When you look closer he is still turning it over at a high rate (last night excluded) but the big improvement is the number of times he gets to the FT line - and he is hitting them.

Overall, this team seems to be the same roller coaster we've watched all season. Good enough to challenge really good teams but bad enough to lose most of those challenges. Good enough to easily beat average/poor teams, but also bad enough to inexplicably lose some of those games. 

Looking at the B1G they are right where you would expect a team like that to be right now. The are 9-9 with two to go. The season hanging in the balance in a conference where you win one and lose one in a week, and the team that goes on a modest 3 to 4 game win streak ends up as the regular season champs. 

One more positive - they are likely top 10 in conference so they won't have to play day one of the conf tournament.

 

 

Good post. Not a lot to add. I agree that Bates was a positive. He’s going to be a special player I feel like. Geronimo I feel like is just stuck behind seniority. He’s been a positive contributor probably more so than not. I think both Bates and Geronimo would be further along than they currently are at least in terms of comfortability if they weren’t stuck behind other players.

[ba43056]

15 hours ago, FritzIam4IU said:

Ho hum another boring W.

Gotta beat Rutgers at home. Go Hoosiers!!

I think it will come down to which XJ we have. I thought he took about 3 too many shots this game but 20+ points 5+ rebounds and assists with zero turnovers AND impressive defense,,,,not much more you can ask from your PG.

However the Rutgers guards are physical and that could mean foul trouble for him. 

[IUFLA]

11 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Loved Woody not taking a timeout down the stretch.  Allowed the kids to take a gut punch and still come out with the W.  May not work many other times, but it worked this go around.  

Loved that and Coach Woodson getting salty with Rob when he jacked up a 3 early in the shot clock with a 22 point lead...

We've seen leads evaporate before with that mentality...

You gotta play til the clock reads 0...

[jojo123]

When woody calls for them to pound the ball down low. Our offense stalls and we stand and look into the post for three seconds at a time telling the defense we are going to throw it in there. Hell a third grader could steal that pass. Our spacing goes to shit. our guards should take a glance if its not there swing it. Trace and Race can not just post on one block they need to move and screen each other. Just too much standing when the focus becomes pounding down low. 

[Euroclydon]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

What in the world? Did you post a stat here? 

You can't "give up a 27 pt lead" if the other team never ends up leading!!! We struggled in the last 8 mins mostly because water finds it's level. Did you actually think we were going to beat Minny by 27 on the road? 

"and IU is now a high % 3pt shooting team and TJD is .." ... what does this mean? We WANT to play the way we played last night moving forward. More perimeter oriented and TJD getting lobs/put backs/few true 1 on 1 post ups. Why does he need more than 7 shots a game if he is going to score 14? 

And finally ... my attitude is what has led to us not winning as many games as we wanted the last 22 years? Got it! Makes perfect sense! 

That's it? That's the response? You can go sit down now.

Let me be more accurate so it helps some feel better. They gave up 24 points of a 27 point lead and had to hit a FT with under four seconds to prevent a potential complete collapse. One of many large leads to evaporate this season.

I guess we must ignore the obvious about this team because they beat a Minny team with all of four wins in conference this season. We "WANT" to rely on the perimeter game and getting 14 points for TJD is all they need, so seven shots is all that is required. That should work out great. Can't wait to see how well that thinking plays out going forward.

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, Euroclydon said:

That's it? That's the response? You can go sit down now.

Let me be more accurate so it helps some feel better. They gave up 24 points of a 27 point lead and had to hit a FT with under four seconds to prevent a potential complete collapse. One of many large leads to evaporate this season.

I guess we must ignore the obvious about this team because they beat a Minny team with all of four wins in conference this season. We "WANT" to rely on the perimeter game and getting 14 points for TJD is all they need, so seven shots is all that is required. That should work out great. Can't wait to see how well that thinking plays out going forward.

So, you are arguing for MORE post ups for TJD? You enjoy scoring in the 50s? Your point here is incredibly unclear.  

[KoB2011]

9 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

That's it? That's the response? You can go sit down now.

Let me be more accurate so it helps some feel better. They gave up 24 points of a 27 point lead and had to hit a FT with under four seconds to prevent a potential complete collapse. One of many large leads to evaporate this season.

I guess we must ignore the obvious about this team because they beat a Minny team with all of four wins in conference this season. We "WANT" to rely on the perimeter game and getting 14 points for TJD is all they need, so seven shots is all that is required. That should work out great. Can't wait to see how well that thinking plays out going forward.

I can tell you are upset, sorry for that. Can you help me understand if you're upset about our defense giving up so many points in the last 8 minutes or with our offensive production in the game? 

I'm not sure I understand the relation to TJD getting more post ups and Minnesota getting back into the game. 

[SawatchHoosier]

A couple things that came to mind after some sleep. 

1. This team historically has no one on it that is used to being up by more than 5 possessions. It might seem dumb but teams used to playing close games and playing from behind tend to do dumb things when they're up by double digits.
2. This team is still trying to understand what it means to run an offense. You saw the inexperience last night when being up by 25 required the team to adjust. The game required they go from a free flowing offense to a purposeful time management offense. CMW made those adjustments but the players couldn't slow the game down without turning the ball over and or forcing the ball into places it shouldn't go. 
3. Regarding Woodson not calling a timeout and letting them play though it I originally was frustrated by this. Now I feel it was the right thing to because it gave them experience they otherwise wouldn't have had. The next three games are pretty much all must wins. Going 2-1 in the next three will pretty much guarantee a spot in the tournament and making calm adjustments to stay in a game and or put it away will be essential to this team getting a bid. 

4. Also, in the immoral words of Mike Tyson "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth the opponent gets hot from the 3 point line." 

Edited February 28, 2022 by SawatchHoosier

[5fouls]

It was 70-45:with exactly 8 minutes left.  So, in that 8 minute window, IU scored 14 points., It's not like we went 5 minutes without a point.  14 points in 8 minutes is actually a 70 point pace over 40 minutes.

What almost resulted in this being a historic comeback is that Minnesota scored 34 in those same 8 minutes.  That's a 40 minute pace of 170.  That's almost unfathonable.

Did we really almost collapse, or were we in the middle of a cosmic event?

 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

It was 70-45:with exactly 8 minutes left.  So, in that 8 minute window, IU scored 14 points., It's not like we went 5 minutes without a point.  14 points in 8 minutes is actually a 70 point pace over 40 minutes.

What almost resulted in this being a historic comeback is that Minnesota scored 34 in those same 8 minutes.  That's a 40 minute pace of 170.  That's almost unfathonable.

Did we really almost collapse, or were we in the middle of a cosmic event?

 

We didn't collapse at all lol 

I just watched the thing again, the last 10 mins. They hit some SLOP. Couple of lazy close outs, but holy cow the last 12 points they score were all very, very low quality shots and absolutely not sustainable throughout a 40 min time frame. 

[SawatchHoosier]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

What almost resulted in this being a historic comeback is that Minnesota scored 34 in those same 8 minutes.  That's a 40 minute pace of 170.  That's almost unfathomable.

So what you're saying is Minnesota played like the 92' Dream Team for 8 minutes. I knew I was watching some BS.

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

It was 70-45:with exactly 8 minutes left.  So, in that 8 minute window, IU scored 14 points., It's not like we went 5 minutes without a point.  14 points in 8 minutes is actually a 70 point pace over 40 minutes.

What almost resulted in this being a historic comeback is that Minnesota scored 34 in those same 8 minutes.  That's a 40 minute pace of 170.  That's almost unfathonable.

Did we really almost collapse, or were we in the middle of a cosmic event?

 

There's obviously a lot we could have done better in those 8 minutes, but there has to be some recognition that Minnesota just hit some incredibly difficult shots. Take away even 2 of those ridiculous three pointers and it is still a double digit win. 

[SawatchHoosier]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

It was 70-45:with exactly 8 minutes left.  So, in that 8 minute window, IU scored 14 points., It's not like we went 5 minutes without a point.  14 points in 8 minutes is actually a 70 point pace over 40 minutes.

What almost resulted in this being a historic comeback is that Minnesota scored 34 in those same 8 minutes.  That's a 40 minute pace of 170.  That's almost unfathonable.

Did we really almost collapse, or were we in the middle of a cosmic event?

 

Game footage of Minnesota in the last 8 minutes... 

[southsidehoosier]

1 minute ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Game footage of Minnesota in the last 8 minutes... 

“Boom-Shaka-laka”