Offseason 2022

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, southsidehoosier said:

Off the top of my head 

@ wisky

@‘cuse

@PSU, @OSU, @Purdue, and home against Rutgers. All 6 of those games.. he missed.  

[BGleas]

13 minutes ago, btownqb said:

@PSU, @OSU, @Purdue, and home against Rutgers. All 6 of those games.. he missed.  

Made a huge difference. Phinisee also missed some of those games too. 

[Hoosierdave]

15 hours ago, BGleas said:

Not really how it works though. Race is a 2-year starter. Unless there is some larger style change that's been discussed that would necessitate his moving to the bench, Race has earned the right to begin practice as the starter. 

Somebody has to take it from him and earn it. Race has already done that. 

I was a 4-year starter in college and I can tell I would have been massively pissed in year 2-4 if when practice first started I wasn't in the first group to start. I dont have to earn it back, someone has to take that from me in the preseason. 

Again, not really what I’m saying…

Giving the IMPRESSION to a player that it’s his spot to lose based on his prior play is not equal to behind the scenes GUARANTEEING a player a starting role like someone had suggested. Making empty promises to players IMO is a bad cultural move and wouldn’t help motivate players to grind and work hard and be the best player and teammate possible. Again, huge difference between being transparent with a player on where they currently are on the depth chart based on what coaches are seeing and telling them “idgaf what you do during the off-season, I’ve already decided how I’m allocating minutes next year.”

Also, you’re lucky in that regard. I played college sports too, started my first 3 years. Got pushed to the bench because a freshman was just objectively better than me. He earned it, and while it sucked to work hard for 3 years and my senior year lose that role, I was happy that my coach didn’t allow seniority and personal relationships to get in the way of what was best for our team. I wasn’t mad at my coach, I understood it’s competitive sports and it’s his job to put the best players out there because they EARNED it.

I only see race coming off the bench if TJD comes back because his permitter scoring and perimeter defense left a lot to be desired at the 4, and it would surprise me if Woody relied on Duncomb more than Race to fill those minutes when TJD needs a breather/in foul trouble. 

[btownqb]

40 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said:

Again, not really what I’m saying…

Giving the IMPRESSION to a player that it’s his spot to lose based on his prior play is not equal to behind the scenes GUARANTEEING a player a starting role like someone had suggested. Making empty promises to players IMO is a bad cultural move and wouldn’t help motivate players to grind and work hard and be the best player and teammate possible. Again, huge difference between being transparent with a player on where they currently are on the depth chart based on what coaches are seeing and telling them “idgaf what you do during the off-season, I’ve already decided how I’m allocating minutes next year.”

Also, you’re lucky in that regard. I played college sports too, started my first 3 years. Got pushed to the bench because a freshman was just objectively better than me. He earned it, and while it sucked to work hard for 3 years and my senior year lose that role, I was happy that my coach didn’t allow seniority and personal relationships to get in the way of what was best for our team. I wasn’t mad at my coach, I understood it’s competitive sports and it’s his job to put the best players out there because they EARNED it.

I only see race coming off the bench if TJD comes back because his permitter scoring and perimeter defense left a lot to be desired at the 4, and it would surprise me if Woody relied on Duncomb more than Race to fill those minutes when TJD needs a breather/in foul trouble. 

Why is the bold relevant to IU? 

[KoB2011]

Race is going to start next year because he is significantly better at basketball at this point than Jordan Geronimo. Does that work for everyone?

[DC2345]

43 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Race is going to start next year because he is significantly better at basketball at this point than Jordan Geronimo. Does that work for everyone?

It does not matter who is better on April 15th. The question will be is who is better in October and November and has JG progressed to where he can play the 3 like he wants. That is the question and that is if JG is even back at IU.

[KoB2011]

30 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

It does not matter who is better on April 15th. The question will be is who is better in October and November and has JG progressed to where he can play the 3 like he wants. That is the question and that is if JG is even back at IU.

Race has a sizable lead in The Who is better category and has shown steady improvement in his time here. Anything’s possible, but right now Race starting seems like an incredibly safe bet.

I also don’t really see why JG would transfer, he’s not going to find a major program ready to contend that offers him anything more than we are. JG has a lot of untapped potential but so far that’s really all it is. 

[BobSaccamanno]

5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Race has a sizable lead in The Who is better category and has shown steady improvement in his time here. Anything’s possible, but right now Race starting seems like an incredibly safe bet.

I also don’t really see why JG would transfer, he’s not going to find a major program ready to contend that offers him anything more than we are. JG has a lot of untapped potential but so far that’s really all it is. 

I like both players a lot but you seem to really be planting your flag in the Race camp and diminishing JG.  But what you aren’t taking into account is that JG was surging later in the season and Race struggled later.  It’s not out of the question that JG will capitalize on his momentum and improve a lot.  He brings dimensions that Race doesn’t in terms of athleticism and stretching the floor.   The spacing may be very useful to running our desired offense.   If you look at a team like Arkansas, those alignments are brutal to deal with on both ends.  

[BobSaccamanno]

9 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i know TIC, but i'm saying no Stewart or Kopp.  i know. i know. Kopp will likely start, but if Bates and JHS are good enough to start, that's my point.  XJ, JHS, and Bates could provide 3 scorers who have the ability to make plays and also shoot.  

I know you’re not saying this but I wanted to comment on Kopp just because his name came up.  People like to lump Kopp in the liability camp with Stewart.  I am going to predict that Kopp will be huge for us next year.  You saw a glimpse of what he can do down the stretch.  He finally got in the flow and he and the staff figured out how to optimize that.  The light bulb went on and IMO he will build on it.  

I predict he does well next year and this whole board will be pretending that they were all in his corner the whole time.  The kid is a pure shooter.  But people forget that your shooting percentage is contingent on a number of factors, including the offense getting the right shots and in the right position.  The guards have to get you the ball in the in the right flow where you can get your preferred shots up.  IMO, Kopp wasn’t getting the right shots earlier in the year.  As the team got into synch later, he became an asset and his role seemed to get figured out in terms of getting him shots in the right flow and where he can excel.  

We talk about needing shooters but we’ve got a kid who can flat out shoot.  I think he’s the most overly maligned guy we have and it’s not realistic.  I am looking for Kopp to be huge next year.  He’s found his role and his teammates and coaches have figured out his game.  I’m not saying he will average 20 PPG.  I’m saying he will hit huge timely shots and, just as importantly, spread the floor for the offense.  

Edited April 16, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[KoB2011]

10 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I like both players a lot but you seem to really be planting your flag in the Race camp and diminishing JG.  But what you aren’t taking into account is that JG was surging later in the season and Race struggled later.  It’s not out of the question that JG will capitalize on his momentum and improve a lot.  He brings dimensions that Race doesn’t in terms of athleticism and stretching the floor.   The spacing may be very useful to running our desired offense.   If you look at a team like Arkansas, those alignments are brutal to deal with on both ends.  

I hear you and like JG’s potential, but I don’t think he has anything on Race other than athleticism.

I would personally take Race in a shooting contest all day at this point in their careers.

I mean Race averaged 11 and 8 with a steal and a block, and was honorable mention all league. How many games has JG even done what Race averaged?

Hint: It’s 1 time ever. 

[BobSaccamanno]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I hear you and like JG’s potential, but I don’t think he has anything on Race other than athleticism.

I would personally take Race in a shooting contest all day at this point in their careers.

I mean Race averaged 11 and 8 with a steal and a block, and was honorable mention all league. How many games has JG even done what Race averaged?

Hint: It’s 1 time ever. 

No question.  I like Race a lot.  He’s an extremely tough kid who plays exceptionally hard.  He’s no nonsense out there and will never back down from anyone.  I will take that profile any day.  We’ve had some big guys over the years who I wished had those attributes.   So I will take a tough kid like that anytime   

I do think JG makes a lot of tough plays too but with a different dimension that I think helps us a lot.  

[Jerseys4Hope]

Posting this in the other thread also but I want to say thank you to @BDBfor making this happen! Grateful for all the support as I keep fighting epilepsy. I’m hoping to one day make enough $ to move to Indy and be close to a lot more basketball to help me have fewer seizures! Another surgery for my implant scheduled for next year.

Behind me are the 269 jerseys I have so far. Indiana looks like a beautiful place and I can’t wait to live there one day!

My twitter is @358jerseys4hope and I look forward to keeping on chatting with y’all and coming to a game if I can afford to get there. Thank you for helping me and so many others overcome epilepsy everyday!! If you or someone you know is struggling with it, please let them know they’re not alone! 🙏🏻🏀

[NCHoosier32]

12 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I know you’re not saying this but I wanted to comment on Kopp just because his name came up.  People like to lump Kopp in the liability camp with Stewart.  I am going to predict that Kopp will be huge for us next year.  You saw a glimpse of what he can do down the stretch.  He finally got in the flow and he and the staff figured out how to optimize that.  The light bulb went on and IMO he will build on it.  

I predict he does well next year and this whole board will be pretending that they were all in his corner the whole time.  The kid is a pure shooter.  But people forget that your shooting percentage is contingent on a number of factors, including the offense getting the right shots and in the right position.  The guards have to get you the ball in the in the right flow where you can get your preferred shots up.  IMO, Kopp wasn’t getting the right shots earlier in the year.  As the team got into synch later, he became an asset and his role seemed to get figured out in terms of getting him shots in the right flow and where he can excel.  

We talk about needing shooters but we’ve got a kid who can flat out shoot.  I think he’s the most overly maligned guy we have and it’s not realistic.  I am looking for Kopp to be huge next year.  He’s found his role and his teammates and coaches have figured out his game.  I’m not saying he will average 20 PPG.  I’m saying he will hit huge timely shots and, just as importantly, spread the floor for the offense.  

i could definitely see you being right, but i think i'll have a lot higher expectations if Bates and JHS are good enough to push him out of the starting lineup.  i, for one was hopeful and excited about Kopp, but will admit that i think he hurt us last season.  if he is a superstar this year, i'll be ecstatic, but will still admit that i was wrong and not claim i was in his corner!  

[NCHoosier32]

am i missing where we are discussing Reneau?  i for one am very excited that he is currently on campus.  

[IUFLA]

6 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

am i missing where we are discussing Reneau?  i for one am very excited that he is currently on campus.  

Over in the recruiting forum

[HoosierDom]

14 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I know you’re not saying this but I wanted to comment on Kopp just because his name came up.  People like to lump Kopp in the liability camp with Stewart.  I am going to predict that Kopp will be huge for us next year.  You saw a glimpse of what he can do down the stretch.  He finally got in the flow and he and the staff figured out how to optimize that.  The light bulb went on and IMO he will build on it.  

I predict he does well next year and this whole board will be pretending that they were all in his corner the whole time.  The kid is a pure shooter.  But people forget that your shooting percentage is contingent on a number of factors, including the offense getting the right shots and in the right position.  The guards have to get you the ball in the in the right flow where you can get your preferred shots up.  IMO, Kopp wasn’t getting the right shots earlier in the year.  As the team got into synch later, he became an asset and his role seemed to get figured out in terms of getting him shots in the right flow and where he can excel.  

We talk about needing shooters but we’ve got a kid who can flat out shoot.  I think he’s the most overly maligned guy we have and it’s not realistic.  I am looking for Kopp to be huge next year.  He’s found his role and his teammates and coaches have figured out his game.  I’m not saying he will average 20 PPG.  I’m saying he will hit huge timely shots and, just as importantly, spread the floor for the offense.  

I'm trying to get on board with this (and I have never been terribly down on Kopp, I think he had an okay year and is a good guy to have for 15 minutes a game off the bench), but, looking at the game logs, I'm having a hard time seeing when the bulb went on. He didn't score at all in the tournament, missed a lot of shots against Iowa, was not existent against Illinois. Was solid against Michigan and Purdue, but I'm not seeing anything to suggest next year will be better than this year. 

[Coach McDingle]

17 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I know you’re not saying this but I wanted to comment on Kopp just because his name came up.  People like to lump Kopp in the liability camp with Stewart.  I am going to predict that Kopp will be huge for us next year.  You saw a glimpse of what he can do down the stretch.  He finally got in the flow and he and the staff figured out how to optimize that.  The light bulb went on and IMO he will build on it.  

I predict he does well next year and this whole board will be pretending that they were all in his corner the whole time.  The kid is a pure shooter.  But people forget that your shooting percentage is contingent on a number of factors, including the offense getting the right shots and in the right position.  The guards have to get you the ball in the in the right flow where you can get your preferred shots up.  IMO, Kopp wasn’t getting the right shots earlier in the year.  As the team got into synch later, he became an asset and his role seemed to get figured out in terms of getting him shots in the right flow and where he can excel.  

We talk about needing shooters but we’ve got a kid who can flat out shoot.  I think he’s the most overly maligned guy we have and it’s not realistic.  I am looking for Kopp to be huge next year.  He’s found his role and his teammates and coaches have figured out his game.  I’m not saying he will average 20 PPG.  I’m saying he will hit huge timely shots and, just as importantly, spread the floor for the offense.  

Respextfully, I honestly couldn't disagree more.  What end of the year improvement do you see that makes you think he's going to make any sort of leap next year? I'm not trying to trash a Hoosier but let's be real he's a "sharpshooter" that just isn't an in game scorer (I imagine he is an amazing practice player and for whatever the reason doesn't connect in the game). He is not an above average rebounder or defender and he can not create his own shot.

He went 2-17 over the final 3 games and had zero points in the final two games. Just look at the box scores for the last 4 games we played. 

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, Coach McDingle said:

Respextfully, I honestly couldn't disagree more.  What end of the year improvement do you see that makes you think he's going to make any sort of leap next year? I'm not trying to trash a Hoosier but let's be real he's a "sharpshooter" that just isn't an in game scorer (I imagine he is an amazing practice player and for whatever the reason doesn't connect in the game). He is not an above average rebounder or defender and he can not create his own shot.

He went 2-17 over the final 3 games and had zero points in the final two games. Just look at the box scores for the last 4 games we played. 

You can look at the last 3 games, sure...but by then, I think our whole team was worn out...

Here's the numbers for the 7 games previous to that, and I don't want to speak for @BobSaccamanno, but those 7 games showed me a lot of promise...

 

39% from 3 and 8 ppg...I'll take that all day long from Miller...And while he's not a superior overall defender, on the ball he's not bad, and he gives total effort...He's got a little cockiness that I like, and he's a team leader...

Edited April 16, 2022 by IUFLA

[BobSaccamanno]

15 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You can look at the last 3 games, sure...but by then, I think our whole team was worn out...

Here's the numbers for the 7 games previous to that, and I don't want to speak for @BobSaccamanno, but those 7 games showed me a lot of promise...

 

39% from 3 and 8 ppg...I'll take that all day long from Miller...And while he's not a superior overall defender, on the ball he's not bad, and he gives total effort...He's got a little cockiness that I like, and he's a team leader...

Thank you for the data.  The last game was a farce.  I don’t want to repeat everything I said but suffice it to say, we need shooting and I think he and everyone around him figured it out later in the year how to get him the right shots.  And, yes, we need shooting and he’s got it.  I think he will hit key shots for us next year.  

Edited April 16, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[BobSaccamanno]

6 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i could definitely see you being right, but i think i'll have a lot higher expectations if Bates and JHS are good enough to push him out of the starting lineup.  i, for one was hopeful and excited about Kopp, but will admit that i think he hurt us last season.  if he is a superstar this year, i'll be ecstatic, but will still admit that i was wrong and not claim i was in his corner!  

To be clear, I’m not predicting starters right now, but I’m saying he’s very capable and can hit shots in whatever role he’s in.  I want to see the whole roster before I predict anything. 

[Coach McDingle]

51 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You can look at the last 3 games, sure...but by then, I think our whole team was worn out...

Here's the numbers for the 7 games previous to that, and I don't want to speak for @BobSaccamanno, but those 7 games showed me a lot of promise...

 

39% from 3 and 8 ppg...I'll take that all day long from Miller...And while he's not a superior overall defender, on the ball he's not bad, and he gives total effort...He's got a little cockiness that I like, and he's a team leader...

Not trying to be rude and I really do see what you are saying but to me those are the stats of a pretty good role player (if he had averaged that over the entire year, not his 7 best game stretch of the season).

I just personally don't want one of the true team leaders to be even that (the highlight stretch of his year was that 7 games: 8ppg, 3 rbg, 1 assist, <0.5 steals/blocks in 30 minutes per game). He disappeared in the games at the end of the year that matter the most and even missed a couple of absolutely clutch moment free throws.  I love the hussle but I don't think there are a ton of plays he's making that are the type that aren't getting recorded on the stat sheet. I just can't think of many good teams from the past few years in ncaa/ big ten who has a year long starter that identifies as a team leader that has that stat line (especially without being an above average defender. While he may not be a bad on ball defender,  it's not like he's a better defender than an average big ten wing player). 

[Hoosierfan1215]

Kopps shooting numbers for last season were on par with his career averages. He is what he is. He averaged less in less volume of shots and 7 mins Less a game. I was expecting to see the Miller kopp of the previous 2 years, but I guess I didn’t watch NW games close enough because he averaged 25mpg last year and 31 for the previous 2. Averaged 7 points less last year. I had the thought he could come in be a 40+ percent three point shooter, give us 12 points a game. But his on ball defense is average at best and can’t stay in front of smaller players, and gets beat back door 2 times a game by ball watching.  Good leader, I like his attitude, love his baselines and corner 3 game. That’s about it. Everything else he does is not what I would expect a starting or even 15+minute player at IU to get. If our expectation is for him suddenly “have it click” I think we are expecting something that isn’t there.

[NCHoosier32]

i'll go back to saying - i'll be pretty excited if we start XJ, JHS, Bates, Thompson, TJD.  that is our best 3 players returning and two upgrades.  

[jv1972iu]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

You can look at the last 3 games, sure...but by then, I think our whole team was worn out...

Here's the numbers for the 7 games previous to that, and I don't want to speak for @BobSaccamanno, but those 7 games showed me a lot of promise...

 

39% from 3 and 8 ppg...I'll take that all day long from Miller...And while he's not a superior overall defender, on the ball he's not bad, and he gives total effort...He's got a little cockiness that I like, and he's a team leader...

Just wish he had a little more Ted Kitchel in his DNA.

[btownqb]

Kopp gets lost on defense less then any other player we have. Ask Sasha. 

He needs to shoot 1.5-2% better from 3, improve on his A/T a smidge and hes very solid for 18mpg.