Offseason 2022

[Billingsley99]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Amazing what we were willing to overlook when the second statement was in effect. 

To quote a great band you know its sad but true....

[Bushmage]

I also don't know why there is such a mystique around what actually happened. There is a fear to say whether or not he put lives in danger and we dont know what happened.

Have you ever done 90mph? Ever seen walnut? I dont need to know the rest of the details at this point. And I can very much make a comment on it like anybody else can.

The real answer needed is should we care. I say no, because deep down we all really don't. He's here to compete and win for us and his personal life is not our concern. He has fine parents and if he's not listening to them then he will have to learn on his own what its like to fail yourself.

It's not our job as a basketball program to make sure X understands reckless driving is bad. Since we made such a grandstanding over curfew, I do feel like we've cornered ourselves into a position where if we want to have any sort of moral consistency then X must leave the program. But, the fact is he's a key player for us and we need him, and so we all know that isn't going to happen. If it did, I'd actually be impressed we kept that kind of consistency. But if/when we don't, we should all just drop the charade of caring about morals in college sports. Because this is a pretty obvious example of bending the framework to fit what we want most.

[kyhoosier29]

1 minute ago, Bushmage said:

I also don't know why there is such a mystique around what actually happened. There is a fear to say whether or not he put lives in danger and we dont know what happened.

Have you ever done 90mph? Ever seen walnut? I dont need to know the rest of the details at this point. And I can very much make a comment on it like anybody else can.

The real answer needed is should we care. I say no, because deep down we all really don't. He's here to compete and win for us and his personal life is not our concern. He has fine parents and if he's not listening to them then he will have to learn on his own what its like to fail yourself.

It's not our job as a basketball program to make sure X understands reckless driving is bad. Since we made such a grandstanding over curfew, I do feel like we've cornered ourselves into a position where if we want to have any sort of moral consistency then X must leave the program. But, the fact is he's a key player for us and we need him, and so we all know that isn't going to happen. If it did, I'd actually be impressed we kept that kind of consistency. But if/when we don't, we should all just drop the charade of caring about morals in college sports. Because this is a pretty obvious example of bending the framework to fit what we want most.

I’ve done 90 mph on the interstate before, but that’s the only place. To answer your question, I grew up in Central KY unfortunately and didn’t go to IU so I’m not familiar with Walnut. 

[FKIM01]

I envision the sitdown with Woody being ugly...a real @ss chewing.  Unless there is other stuff we don't know, I don't see this being an exit interview though.  I'm sure there is punishment and I'm equally confident that Woody tells X he is now on zero tolerance.  Embarrass IU again and you're gone regardless of your skill level and how much it hurts the team.  I'm sure X will apologize to everyone...coaches, team, fans, parents...it won't be a fun experience, but it's a necessary experience.  Who knows what punishment there is beyond that, but I'm sure there will be some level of unpleasantness X has to deal with to stay on the team.  I'd lose a lot more respect for X if he looks at Woody's proposed punishment and hits the portal.

...and I'd like to think Logan Duncomb and Khristian Lander would get the same latitude, regardless of their perceived utility to IU basketball.  This should not be a talent issue.  The time on the floor and development discussions should be completely independent of behavioral issue conversations, even though I understand how one can influence the other.  I very much disagree with making X's punishment contingent on IU's chances next season even though I realize that happens frequently in college sports.  Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Indy1987]

1 hour ago, iuthruandthru said:

The thing is with this happening outside of the season he can be punished without being suspended.  There is plenty of time and things coach and IU can ask him to do that will be a lot harder than just being suspended for a few games.  Suspension would be easy. Instead as so many have suggested let’s get him in front of kids and have him talk about what he did and why it was so dumb.  Have him earn his time back on the practice court and for games doing community service.  Have him meet with families that have lost loved ones in major accidents that could have been avoided.  So many harder things can be done here that should make XJ better for it.

Yep plenty of punishment to be had this off season.  And if he doesn't want to pay for his stupidity then he knows where the door is.   He already cost himself NLI $$$ with this.  Although maybe the local bailbonds place will offer him a deal.  Lol

Go Hoosiers!!! 

[macomb hoosier]

If he hit someone, say a drunk college student crossing the street, he would have killed that person and the basketball program. We are not just talking about multiple felonies here, we are talking about potential manslaughter. 

 

[Bushmage]

12 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I’ve done 90 mph on the interstate before, but that’s the only place. To answer your question, I grew up in Central KY unfortunately and didn’t go to IU so I’m not familiar with Walnut. 

walnut is a tight, very urban street that people are crossing constantly. We should not have to "speculate" on if anyone could have been hurt or we should treat this different because nobody was hurt. The fact is he is very lucky he didnt instantly kill someone, and just because he didnt doesnt mean a thing to me.

Again, I dont want him off the team and I ultimately dont care about this as it relates to the program. But I want this to be the wakeup call to all the people who loved the curfew suspensions and mike "taking the program reins back" that at the end of the day college sports is as moral as they can afford to be in any given situation without sacricifing anything that gets them closer to winning, and we should stop pretending we actually care too. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Bushmage

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, macomb hoosier said:

If he hit someone, say a drunk college student crossing the street, he would have killed that person and the basketball program. We are not just talking about multiple felonies here, we are talking about potential manslaughter. 

 

If I pick up a gun carelessly and blow a hole in my kitchen floor am I to be charged with manslaughter because a child could have been crawling there?  This is a serious lapse in judgment, but I don't think we can start operating in hypotheticals like that.  None of us would be safe if that were the case.

[Bushmage]

3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

If I pick up a gun carelessly and blow a hole in my kitchen floor am I to be charged with manslaughter because a child could have been crawling there?  This is a serious lapse in judgment, but I don't think we can start operating in hypotheticals like that.  None of us would be safe if that were the case.

I mean, you'd get a negligent discharge case and would absolutely be in trouble for that if the authorities found you. And that's also inside your own home, X was out in public on the streets where other people are entitled to be. This isn't just arguing hypotheticals, its examining the risks involved that made his actions illegal in the first place.

[macomb hoosier]

2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

If I pick up a gun carelessly and blow a hole in my kitchen floor am I to be charged with manslaughter because a child could have been crawling there?  This is a serious lapse in judgment, but I don't think we can start operating in hypotheticals like that.  None of us would be safe if that were the case.

This is not picking up a gun in your kitchen, it is more like you are playing with your gun in the shopping mall, or Dunn meadow. As Bushmage pointed out just before you, this is hardly hypothetical. The chance of someone dying was real.

[FKIM01]

4 minutes ago, Bushmage said:

Again, I dont want him off the team and I ultimately dont care about this as it relates to the program. But I want this to be the wakeup call to all the people who loved the curfew suspensions and mike "taking the program reins back" that at the end of the day college sports is as moral as they can afford to be in any given situation without sacricifing anything that gets them closer to winning, and we should stop pretending we actually care too. 

I don't see the conflict?  We don't know what X's punishment is and we may never know depending on what it is, but I don't see why we are forced to leap from a 1-game suspension to being kicked off the team?  I'm all for discipline in both cases, but I don't know nearly enough to pass judgment on what the discipline should be here.  I don't know enough about the Chicago incident to say whether the punishment there was just either.  I'm all for Woodson running a tight ship and doling out the punishments that he sees as appropriate.  If he kicks X off the team here, I have to assume that it's just.  I don't see why we need to automatically make that leap yet though.

[macomb hoosier]

9 minutes ago, Bushmage said:

walnut is a tight, very urban street that people are crossing constantly. We should not have to "speculate" on if anyone could have been hurt or we should treat this different because nobody was hurt. The fact is he is very lucky he didnt instantly kill someone, and just because he didnt doesnt mean a thing to me.

Again, I dont want him off the team and I ultimately dont care about this as it relates to the program. But I want this to be the wakeup call to all the people who loved the curfew suspensions and mike "taking the program reins back" that at the end of the day college sports is as moral as they can afford to be in any given situation without sacricifing anything that gets them closer to winning, and we should stop pretending we actually care too. 

I doubt CMW has his mind made up on this. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the boot. IUBB > XJ

[Bushmage]

Just now, FKIM01 said:

I don't see the conflict?  We don't know what X's punishment is and we may never know depending on what it is, but I don't see why we are forced to leap from a 1-game suspension to being kicked off the team?  I'm all for discipline in both cases, but I don't know nearly enough to pass judgment on what the discipline should be here.  I don't know enough about the Chicago incident to say whether the punishment there was just either.  I'm all for Woodson running a tight ship and doling out the punishments that he sees as appropriate.  If he kicks X off the team here, I have to assume that it's just.  I don't see why we need to automatically make that leap yet though.

Missing curfew and felony reckless driving should not, in any scenario, have the same degree of punishment. If he gets a 1 game suspension over this I never wanna hear about morals at IU ever again lol.

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, Bushmage said:

Missing curfew and felony reckless driving should not, in any scenario, have the same degree of punishment. If he gets a 1 game suspension over this I never wanna hear about morals at IU ever again lol.

So...what if he gets, say, 3 games?  I dunno.  No idea what he'll be subject to in the off season either.  Maybe he gets no games, but has a lot of off-season work instead?

Honestly, I'd be very surprised if the sum total of his punishment here is a 1-game suspension.

[BeerBQ]

On a different note, this is interesting. 

[Zlinedavid]

48 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

One of the worst smells on the face of the earth. SHe was cute though

You know, if you read these two sentences in isolation rather than in context…..

 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, BeerBQ said:

On a different note, this is interesting. 

That's the guy that was always thought to be Izzo's replacement, right?

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, IUFLA said:

That's the guy that was always thought to be Izzo's replacement, right?

You mean after Fife, right?

[IUFLA]

Just now, Zlinedavid said:

You mean after Fife, right?

Supposedly before Fife...that was one of the reasons Dane considered other gigs...

 

[KoB2011]

25 minutes ago, macomb hoosier said:

If he hit someone, say a drunk college student crossing the street, he would have killed that person and the basketball program. We are not just talking about multiple felonies here, we are talking about potential manslaughter. 

 

The same thing would’ve been true if he was going 40. He didn’t hit anyone though or even come close as far as we know.

Do any of the people that think he should definitely be gone think Bohannon should have been at Iowa last season? You know, for actually committing a violent crime instead of doing something that could’ve had violent consequences?

[Bushmage]

9 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

So...what if he gets, say, 3 games?  I dunno.  No idea what he'll be subject to in the off season either.  Maybe he gets no games, but has a lot of off-season work instead?

Honestly, I'd be very surprised if the sum total of his punishment here is a 1-game suspension.

We'll see. If he had a lot of off season work that coupled with a suspension I'm fine with that. But my point remains if we are giving 1 game suspensions for missing curfew then I dont see how we ever have anything less than zero tolerance for felonies. We used to kick people out for weed, right? If X comes back in any fashion, we are clearly just guessing what punishments should be each and every time. Which, again, is fine. But for the love of God spare me the talk about morals and doing whats right. It's not the first priority at IU, it shouldnt be the first priority, and we should collectively stop pretending it matters to anyone.

I wouldnt be fired up about this much at all if we hadnt created such a show over a curfew. Be consistent or spare us the morals.

[Bushmage]

Just now, KoB2011 said:

The same thing would’ve been true if he was going 40. He didn’t hit anyone though or even come close as far as we know.

Do any of the people that think he should definitely be gone think Bohannon should have been at Iowa last season? You know, for actually committing a violent crime instead of doing something that could’ve had violent consequences?

40 in a 30 is no longer felony reckless driving. So you're describing an entirely different situation with the law now.

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

The same thing would’ve been true if he was going 40. He didn’t hit anyone though or even come close as far as we know.

Do any of the people that think he should definitely be gone think Bohannon should have been at Iowa last season? You know, for actually committing a violent crime instead of doing something that could’ve had violent consequences?

You mean for punching that guy's fist with his face? 

😉

Edited April 4, 2022 by IUFLA

[IU Scott]

I didn't realize this but this wasn't Xavier's first speeding incident.  On the other board and the DD show they said he received another ticket for going ,90 on I69.  This just shows his lack of judgement and his lack of respect for the program.

 

[KoB2011]

8 minutes ago, Bushmage said:

We'll see. If he had a lot of off season work that coupled with a suspension I'm fine with that. But my point remains if we are giving 1 game suspensions for missing curfew then I dont see how we ever have anything less than zero tolerance for felonies. We used to kick people out for weed, right? If X comes back in any fashion, we are clearly just guessing what punishments should be each and every time. Which, again, is fine. But for the love of God spare me the talk about morals and doing whats right. It's not the first priority at IU, it shouldnt be the first priority, and we should collectively stop pretending it matters to anyone.

I wouldnt be fired up about this much at all if we hadnt created such a show over a curfew. Be consistent or spare us the morals.

Do you actually think he will be convicted with a felony?

Do you think breaking a curfew rule the night before a game is the same as doing something that’s probably not even directly addressed in team rules in the off season?

Context matters a lot.