Offseason 2022

[Steubenhoosier]

Didn't want to start a new thread, and this is off season news...

https://www.wane.com/news/woodson-to-headline-49th-annual-bbbs-gourmet-dinner/

Glad to see CMW make an effort to visit the second largest city in the state. CAM pretty much ignored NE Indiana, which in no small part is why recruiting up here has fallen way off.

[tdhoosier]

51 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I will say this...

Advanced training techniques and nutrition have allowed mediocre athletes to increase measureables (speed, quickness, jumping ability) to a point where they would have been considered good athletes a generation ago...

…AND makes great athletes even better. I think the key lately is adding strength with movement with an added emphasis on recovery, and as you said: nutrition (which is vital to recovery). It used to be just adding strength. Or just relying on your natural athletic ability. But for athletes, strength only gets you so far if you’re decreasing your mobility. And vice versa. There’s a marriage between the two. I’m by no means an expert in the field, but I do receive a lot of secondary education, and I hear every modern, elite personal trainer or expert in kinesiology highlight the importance of this ‘marriage’ of strength and movement in athletics. It’s why you have a growing number of defensive lineman running the 40 yard dash under 4.5.

And in the future, athletes will be more athletic than they are today.  

[IUFLA]

Just now, tdhoosier said:

…AND makes great athletes even better. I think the key lately is adding strength with movement with an added emphasis on recovery, and as you said: nutrition (which is vital to recovery). It used to be just adding strength. Or just relying on your natural athletic ability. But for athletes, strength only gets you so far if you’re decreasing your mobility. And vice versa. There’s a marriage between the two. I’m by no means an expert in the field, but I do receive a lot of secondary education, and I hear every modern, elite personal trainer or expert in kinesiology highlight the importance of this ‘marriage’ of strength and movement in athletics. It’s why you have a growing number of defensive lineman running the 40 yard dash under 4.5.

And in the future, athletes will be more athletic than they are today.  

There are theories out there that state we're reaching capacity on what the human body can be molded into...

Without the help of substances, that is...

[FritzIam4IU]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

There are theories out there that state we're reaching capacity on what the human body can be molded into...

Without the help of substances, that is...

[OGIUAndy]

34 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Didn't want to start a new thread, and this is off season news...

https://www.wane.com/news/woodson-to-headline-49th-annual-bbbs-gourmet-dinner/

Glad to see CMW make an effort to visit the second largest city in the state. CAM pretty much ignored NE Indiana, which in no small part is why recruiting up here has fallen way off.

I don’t think IU has ever recruited that area well. 

[tdhoosier]

54 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

There are theories out there that state we're reaching capacity on what the human body can be molded into...

Without the help of substances, that is...

This subject is so interesting to me because there is a mathematic limit. But on the other hand, at one time the 4 minute mile was considered an impossible barrier to break. Today, all the finalists at NCAA’s are within seconds of 4 minutes. 

Athletic ability will plateau at some point, but when? 

I do think we still have a long way to go in terms of nutrition though. As a meat eater, I hate to say it, but is meat our best protein source? Is it a coincidence Tom Brady is vegan? 

Funny story, I coach an elite 13 year old swimmer who is already starting to compete at a national level - she doesn’t eat meat. The girl is like a freaking Energizer bunny. This past weekend at a national meet she was hanging out with other elite regional swimmers, we found out that they don’t eat meat either. In all cases it wasn't a ‘strategic diet choice’, just a preference. 3 kids, amongst the top 13 year old female swimmers in the state, all coincidentally, are vegetarians? 

I know it’s a super small sample size but I keep hearing more and more about it. There’s also the Williams sisters, Kyrie Irving, Chris Paul, Novak Djokivich, etc. Does this prove anything? Not necessarily. But it does suggest that not all athletes need animal based protein to compete at a high level. Perhaps it’s just that some are built differently and have different biological needs. All that said, and my point being…..a LOT of learning is still needed when it comes to nutrition and athletics. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by tdhoosier

[Coach Robby]

Can tell it’s the off-season on the board 😂 

[rico]

8 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

I don’t think IU has ever recruited that area well. 

Not in my lifetime.

[Steubenhoosier]

16 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

I don’t think IU has ever recruited that area well. 

true, but in the past 15-20 years, I don't know how much effort has been put into it.

[rico]

24 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

true, but in the past 15-20 years, I don't know how much effort has been put into it.

How many major D-1 players have come out of the FW area in the last 15-20 years would you say?

[Steubenhoosier]

3 minutes ago, rico said:

How many major D-1 players have come out of the FW area in the last 15-20 years would you say?

No clue....in the last few years, Butz, Brooks and Furst. The kid from Canterbury who went to Michigan and whose family had the plane crash. Izzo has gotten a kid or two from NE Indiana. Wisconsin has as well. The point guard from Warsaw. The kid that went to Akron and is now in the portal. Dwenger had the Eifert kid who played for PUke--we wouldn't have had a chance with him though, given the family history. Snider had Williams who went to Louisville. 

I rarely have any information being so far away from Bloomington, but I did regarding someone fairly close to Furst. He told me that prior to Furst's senior year, it was down to IU and Virginia. Painter made it a point to be up in FW multiple times prior to the commitment. 

[tdhoosier]

Back to basketball....

There's been a lot of speculation about if Race, Trayce and Geronimo will be able to share minutes. Jared on Assembly Call had some interesting observations on the subject that made me rethink things.

A good coach should be able to use those 3. This should be a good problem to have that he can sell to each of them. But in order to do so, I think Woody will need to approach substitutions in a more conventional way:
play TJD and Race together
play TJD and Geronimo (while Race rests)
Move Race to the 5 and play Geronimo (while TJD rests)

...and keep rotating through that. Keep everybody fresh and happy.

It seems simple right? But last year Geronimo got a good chunk of his minutes playing with all the bench players, when he couldn't be as effective. I know beat it to death, but IMO, these rotations have to improve next year.  

[rico]

4 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

No clue....in the last few years, Butz, Brooks and Furst. The kid from Canterbury who went to Michigan and whose family had the plane crash. Izzo has gotten a kid or two from NE Indiana. Wisconsin has as well. The point guard from Warsaw. The kid that went to Akron and is now in the portal. Dwenger had the Eifert kid who played for PUke--we wouldn't have had a chance with him though, given the family history. Snider had Williams who went to Louisville. 

I rarely have any information being so far away from Bloomington, but I did regarding someone fairly close to Furst. He told me that prior to Furst's senior year, it was down to IU and Virginia. Painter made it a point to be up in FW multiple times prior to the commitment. 

Swanigan, Kramer

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

This subject is so interesting to me because there is a mathematic limit. But on the other hand, at one time the 4 minute mile was considered an impossible barrier to break. Today, all the finalists at NCAA’s are within seconds of 4 minutes. 

Athletic ability will plateau at some point, but when? 

I do think we still have a long way to go in terms of nutrition though. As a meat eater, I hate to say it, but is meat our best protein source? Is it a coincidence Tom Brady is vegan? 

Funny story, I coach an elite 13 year old swimmer who is already starting to compete at a national level - she doesn’t eat meat. The girl is like a freaking Energizer bunny. This past weekend at a national meet she was hanging out with other elite regional swimmers, we found out that they don’t eat meat either. In all cases it wasn't a ‘strategic diet choice’, just a preference. 3 kids, amongst the top 13 year old female swimmers in the state, all coincidentally, are vegetarians? 

I know it’s a super small sample size but I keep hearing more and more about it. There’s also the Williams sisters, Kyrie Irving, Chris Paul, Novak Djokivich, etc. Does this prove anything? Not necessarily. But it does suggest that not all athletes need animal based protein to compete at a high level. Perhaps it’s just that some are built differently and have different biological needs. All that said, and my point being…..a LOT of learning is still needed when it comes to nutrition and athletics. 

It's common knowledge a standard cheeseburger is not particularly healthy.  But, if you add bacon, it becomes a much more health conscious selection.  

[btownqb]

35 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Back to basketball....

There's been a lot of speculation about if Race, Trayce and Geronimo will be able to share minutes. Jared on Assembly Call had some interesting observations on the subject that made me rethink things.

A good coach should be able to use those 3. This should be a good problem to have that he can sell to each of them. But in order to do so, I think Woody will need to approach substitutions in a more conventional way:
play TJD and Race together
play TJD and Geronimo (while Race rests)
Move Race to the 5 and play Geronimo (while TJD rests)

...and keep rotating through that. Keep everybody fresh and happy.

It seems simple right? But last year Geronimo got a good chunk of his minutes playing with all the bench players, when he couldn't be as effective. I know beat it to death, but IMO, these rotations have to improve next year.  

JG has to play quite a bit better to deserve 22+ mins. The rotations stuff is massively overblown. JG spent plenty of time on the court w/starters and didn't really show that much until late in the season. 

[5 championships]

Just now, btownqb said:

JG's biggest issue is his lack of ability to do anything off the dribble. Flat out, he struggles massively to take care of the basketball and keep the ball in front of him. Those are two huge issues that were the exact reason he didn't deserve anymore mins then he got. 

I really don't know if I have a preference between RT and TJD, but JG has a ways to go to be as good as RT. 

I do agree we can rotate those three inside w/confidence. It's just JG needs to be a lot better to do that. The bench or rotation isn't the problem though. 

 Ya cuz Kopp and Stewert created a lot off the dribble.. I will forever be baffled at the minutes they played together… the +\- was incredibly bad.. could of avoided the play in game if we would of at least split them two up

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

 Ya cuz Kopp and Stewert created a lot off the dribble.. I will forever be baffled at the minutes they played together… the +\- was incredibly bad.. could of avoided the play in game if we would of at least split them two up

Yeah, I don't agree at all, man. There were about a hundred other factors that made the rotation unique this year. Plus mins is not the end all be all stat. 

And Kopp and Stewart not being able to create, really has nothing to do with JG's lack of ability to do so. JG had 9assts and 31TOs this year, while Kopp was 32assts and 31TOs and played double the mins. 

Woodson can't control TG and RP injuries. He can't control Bates going through, whatever he went through midseason. Bates wasn't ready. I think we will see massive growth from him this year. Either way, if RP and TG are healthy more regularly, that would be the reason we wouldn't have been in the play in game. Not the rotations lol 

Edited April 8, 2022 by btownqb

[Zlinedavid]

18 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

It's common knowledge a standard cheeseburger is not particularly healthy.  But, if you add bacon, it becomes a much more health conscious selection.  

Throw a fried egg on it too. Now you’ve got 3 of the 4 food groups: chicken, beef, pork. 

[5 championships]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Yeah, I don't agree at all, man. There were about a hundred other factors that made the rotation unique this year. Plus mins is not the end all be all stat. 

And Kopp and Stewart not being able to create, really has nothing to do with JG's lack of ability to do so. JG had 9assts and 31TOs this year, while Kopp was 32assts and 31TOs and played double the mins. 

I’ll agree to disagree here.. I like Woodson but he isn’t above criticism.. I think Geronimo numbers would of looked a lot different if he was playing with the 1st unit a lot more. Kopp and stew were pretty bad on both ends of the floor the majority of the time. Kopp got in double figures 3 times against power 5 opponents the entire year?? I could stand in the corner and miss catch and shoot 3’s

Edited April 8, 2022 by 5 championships

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

I’ll agree to disagree here.. I like Woodson but he isn’t above criticism.. I think Geronimo numbers would of looked a lot different if he was playing with the 1st unit a lot more 

Would our team? Only people he was taking mins from was RT. 

It's just a massively wrong narrative that our rotations were some season long problem. I could for sure see them rotating those three this year though, as I hope JG takes a huge step and earns those 22-28mpg. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by btownqb

[IUFLA]

I think barring a home run in the transfer portal, the key to a great season over a good one is Tamar Bates...

He's shown flashes of being able to score in all 3 levels. As I watched Malaki Branham blossom last year, I kept thinking, "why can't Tamar do those same things?"

Bates and Branham are the same size (6'5) and Tamar carries a little more weight (listed at 193 to 180 for Branham). Neither are super athletic but do have above average athletic skills. Neither are superior defenders at this point, but have the tools to improve on that end.

So at this point, I think it's getting playing time, confidence, and making better decisions, especially concerning shot selection for Tamar. And we all know how Coach Woody feels about doing your part on defense...

I know people are penciling Jalen Hood-Shifino into the starting lineup, but I'm not sure that's a gimme. If XJ comes back, I think there will be a battle between JHS and Tamar for Stewart's minutes (assuming Trayce and Race are back as well, and Kopp keeps his starting role)...

[5 championships]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Would our team? Only people he was taking mins from was RT. 

He should of got minutes at the 3 for Kopp… not like Kopp was driving around anybody. He just stood in corner and Kopp wasn’t guarding anyone either… all he did was take up space. Geronimo would of made us way more athletic. And got a ton of boards and put backs over a smaller 3.. Kopp didn’t hVe any turnovers but I wouldn’t have any turnovers either if I stood there lol 32 assist the entire year is pathetic and scoring in doh or figures 3 times in 25 ball games while taking as many minutes as he did is not great 

Edited April 8, 2022 by 5 championships

[IU_Realist]

Just now, btownqb said:

JG has to play quite a bit better to deserve 22+ mins. The rotations stuff is massively overblown. JG spent plenty of time on the court w/starters and didn't really show that much until late in the season. 

It’s not overblown.  Rotations were bad last year. It was part of the problem. College is different than pros. You don’t have an 82 season so you can rely on the bench as much. Most good coaches in college don’t do mass subs. One commentator was shocked that one coach did it so often. The joke was he never saw IU play I guess. Saint Marys is a perfect example where they road their starters the first half. We did a massive sub and didn’t have the horses to go against them. You can’t do that when you don’t have the bench. IU didn’t have the bench to compete. 
 

The original post is right on. Additionally that starting lineup was just atrocious. JG did his best when he was a four next to TJD or Race where they drew doubles and he could attack the rim and rebound. 
 

Rotate the three of Race, TJD and JG at the 4 and 5. I also would argue IUs best lineup was only one of Race or TJD not both together. Until one learns to shoot it causes a lot of congestion. 

I would argue go with Johnson, Bates, JHS, Galloway and Kopp. Kopp isn’t a three so we need to stop that nonsense but I don’t see that happening and he also happens to be one of our better three point shooters at 36% which is another issue in itself. We have a 38% shooter and 36% shooter returning.  The rest are worse. JHS isn’t known to be a shooter either. Need someone to pick it up or we have the same issue as last year…..

 

[btownqb]

Just now, IU_Realist said:

It’s not overblown.  Rotations were bad last year. It was part of the problem. College is different than pros. You don’t have an 82 season so you can rely on the bench as much. Most good coaches in college don’t do mass subs. One commentator was shocked that one coach did it so often. The joke was he never saw IU play I guess. Saint Marys is a perfect example where they road their starters the first half. We did a massive sub and didn’t have the horses to go against them. You can’t do that when you don’t have the bench. IU didn’t have the bench to compete. 
 

The original post is right on. Additionally that starting lineup was just atrocious. JG did his best when he was a four next to TJD or Race where they drew doubles and he could attack the rim and rebound. 
 

Rotate the three of Race, TJD and JG at the 4 and 5. I also would argue IUs best lineup was only one of Race or TJD not both together. Until one learns to shoot it causes a lot of congestion. 

I would argue go with Johnson, Bates, JHS, Galloway and Kopp. Kopp isn’t a three so we need to stop that nonsense but I don’t see that happening and he also happens to be one of our better three point shooters at 36% which is another issue in itself. We have a 38% shooter and 36% shooter returning.  The rest are worse. JHS isn’t known to be a shooter either. Need someone to pick it up or we have the same issue as last year…..

 

Our talent wasn't good enough to only play 7 or 8. The rotations are massively overblown as a regarding them as a problem. 

Race shot 42% from 3 the last 16 games. Needs more volume. 

[ephul]

Just now, 5 championships said:

He should of got minutes at the 3 for Kopp… not like Kopp was driving around anybody. He just stood in corner and Kopp wasn’t guarding anyone either… all he did was take up space. Geronimo would of made us way more athletic. And got a ton of boards and put backs over a smaller 3 

I think this is one of those situations where you simply have to play matchups. Kopp was at least a threat to shoot it from outside. If the other team doesn't have a world beater at the three, Kopp's threat to shoot is worth the lesser defense he provides.

This team isn't good enough to simply play the "five best guys". Outside of Trayce, Race, and Xavier Johnson, you have to put the guys on the floor that match up the best. Against some teams, Geronimo SHOULD eat up a lot of Kopp's minutes. Others games, Kopp can hold his own "good enough" to justify leaving him in for his offense.