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St Mary’s Post Game Thread


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The hot stove season with the roster should be interesting.  I know Woody has some security blankets and pet projects among some veteran players.  But as a group, the veterans have had their opportunity and we’ve seen it play out over a long sample size.  I like them all but not all together here as a unit.  Move on from some of them and let’s get (a) a couple of portal guys and (b) sone minutes to develop younger guys.  Appreciate their contribution to IU but we’ve seen what it looks like.  

I do hope Trayce somehow comes back along with X.  

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5 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

That Syracuse team made the Final Four, lots of teams lost to them….just because we should have won doesn’t make it the worst loss in NCAA history. Disappointing loss? Sure. Massively. In my memory the worst loss in tourney history was 2000-01  season against Kent St. That team obviously had all the talent needed for a huge run (showed it the next year) and lost to a mediocre mid major

My biggest disappointing tournament loss was in 1993 to Kansas in the elite 8

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Jay Bilas came out and said that performance in the conference tournaments shouldn’t matter . That the regular season performance should be the barometer, and that the post season tournament should only reward whoever wins that tournament.

If that’s the case, what is the incentive for a team like IU, who made the tournament in large part due to their performance in the conference tournament?

 I think that, right or wrong , that the conference tournaments should be a thing of the past. Damn the greedy bastards who want to maximize profits from these games that don’t really mean that much 

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Worst loss is not the same as worst performance.  Worst loss to me was that abomination in 1975 with Scott May trying to play with a broken arm against the cheaters from kentuck.  Best team in the country with lousy break getting beat by uk and bad officiating (I thought so ads a 15 year old).

Worst performance, may well have been tonight's game.  We stunk, whatever the cause and contributing factors.

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I’m not going to make excuses bc we got manhandled, but I could certainly tell that these kids were exhausted. I appreciate that they didn’t quit once this season. Unfortunately, we had no real shooters on this team. The perimeter is where we lost every game, offensively and defensively. The thousand missed layups throughout the year don’t make up for the perimeter deficit we faced all year long.

As far as next year, I’m personally okay with the thought of TJD not being back only (hope RT returns) bc it will hopefully lead to a more “team-minded” offense as opposed to three guys standing and watching XJ and TJD (which I’m sure is not CMW’s ideal strategy - had no choice). With that said, I’m concerned about the possibility of losing TJD though bc he’s a great defender. I believe in CMW and know this year was a step in the right direction, I just hope next year isn’t two step backwards due to personnel. We need multiple athletic wings that can really shoot the ball and also need to replace a rim protector. If we can do that I think we’ll keep moving forward. If we don’t at least bring in one deadly shooter I’ll be extremely disappointed as we’ve been in the same boat for years now without a fix. Come on coach, get it done this off-season. 

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9 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The hot stove season with the roster should be interesting.  I know Woody has some security blankets and pet projects among some veteran players.  But as a group, the veterans have had their opportunity and we’ve seen it play out over a long sample size.  I like them all but not all together here as a unit.  Move on from some of them and let’s get (a) a couple of portal guys and (b) sone minutes to develop younger guys.  Appreciate their contribution to IU but we’ve seen what it looks like.  

I do hope Trayce somehow comes back along with X.  

The portal.  Players who decommit. Foreign players.  Go get 'em Mr. Woodson.

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5 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Jay Bilas came out and said that performance in the conference tournaments shouldn’t matter . That the regular season performance should be the barometer, and that the post season tournament should only reward whoever wins that tournament.

If that’s the case, what is the incentive for a team like IU, who made the tournament in large part due to their performance in the conference tournament?

 I think that, right or wrong , that the conference tournaments should be a thing of the past. Damn the greedy bastards who want to maximize profits from these games that don’t really mean that much 

Bilas’ view is idiotic to me.  Gas bag situation. If anything I think they should revert to looking at the last ten games as a factor. Certainly over a NET concept like margins of victory.  
 

edit to clarify I’m calling Bilas’ view idiotic. Not my friend, Steub’s.  

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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5 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

The portal.  Players who decommit. Foreign players.  Go get 'em Mr. Woodson.

Totally agree. Get some big guys from Europe or elsewhere. Make it a regular thing.  IU would be a great fit for them.  Very friendly to international students and a great environment for them.  

I hope Little starts a pipeline. 

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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7 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Worst loss is not the same as worst performance.  Worst loss to me was that abomination in 1975 with Scott May trying to play with a broken arm against the cheaters from kentuck.  Best team in the country with lousy break getting beat by uk and bad officiating (I thought so ads a 15 year old).

Worst performance, may well have been tonight's game.  We stunk, whatever the cause and contributing factors.

The loss to St. John's and Pepperdine was really bad performance as well

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A disappointing end to what was overall a pretty good year, that I hope we all look back on fondly in the next few years and realize it was the building block of long term success. Some observations:

  • We were a tired basketball team
  • Everyone stunk tonight for Indiana... coaches, players, especially our best players
  • The game was officiated, I thought, in a way that favored us.
    • St. Mary's adjusted to that and used it to their advantage, we kept running into a brick wall in the middle and didn't even try to shoot them into an adjustment
  • The bad call against Race was a killer
  • The all sub lineup really hurt us tonight - I've been a huge fan of how we've subbed and our rotations all year, but it didn't work tonight. 

Last, but certainly not least, if this is the last we see of you Trayce Jackson-Davis.... thank you. You unequivocally got better in your three years at Indiana and you put this team and program on your back the last few weeks in a way we haven't seen in a very long time. There's probably a lot of room for debate about where you sit historically in IU lore, but there is no question that in the last few decades you rank as an all-time favorite of mine.

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For those who care here is the video where the coach pretty much admits that if IU didn’t get in at the crack of dawn this would have been a close game 

It’s the first few min and then skip to 11:00

Edited by IU247
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12 minutes ago, IU247 said:

For those who care here is the video where the coach pretty much admits that if IU didn’t get in at the crack of dawn this would have been a close game 

It’s the first few min and then skip to 11:00

He was nice to say that….it’s absolutely true but also they earned their seed and right to rest and play close to home. Just wish we would have had a full week to prepare and rest as well…even if playing on their home court.

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Disappointing but not at all surprising result.

This team was:

A. Never going to probably go beyond the S16.

B. Due to burn out sooner than later. This team has been living on the edge physically for a week and emotionally for probably the last month. It’s not surprising that when it all kind of fell apart it fell fast and hard.

Proud of the team and of our coach.

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18 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He was nice to say that….it’s absolutely true but also they earned their seed and right to rest and play close to home. Just wish we would have had a full week to prepare and rest as well…even if playing on their home court.

Yah. I mean here is the thing. 
 

we all knew that IU got screwed because of the travel stuff. 
but if anyone on IU said what Bennett said to explain their poor play it would be looked at as “sore looser” talk   
 

 

the fact that the winning coach literally said what we all think is what makes it more amazing  

the winning coach pretty much says the game may have ended differently if IU didn’t get screwed   

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

A disappointing end to what was overall a pretty good year, that I hope we all look back on fondly in the next few years and realize it was the building block of long term success. Some observations:

  • We were a tired basketball team
  • Everyone stunk tonight for Indiana... coaches, players, especially our best players
  • The game was officiated, I thought, in a way that favored us.
    • St. Mary's adjusted to that and used it to their advantage, we kept running into a brick wall in the middle and didn't even try to shoot them into an adjustment
  • The bad call against Race was a killer
  • The all sub lineup really hurt us tonight - I've been a huge fan of how we've subbed and our rotations all year, but it didn't work tonight. 

Last, but certainly not least, if this is the last we see of you Trayce Jackson-Davis.... thank you. You unequivocally got better in your three years at Indiana and you put this team and program on your back the last few weeks in a way we haven't seen in a very long time. There's probably a lot of room for debate about where you sit historically in IU lore, but there is no question that in the last few decades you rank as an all-time favorite of mine.

He’s also one of my favorites too.  He’s been a tremendous face of the program as a player.  He deeply cares about the program and is not just a me guy.  I have said this several times before and I stand by it.

 Great ambassadors don’t have to just be on great teams.  Sometimes they help lead and hold the team together through tough times to transition us to a better place.  Without a guy like TJD, you may never develop the building block to get you to that better place.  It’s a vital role.  Kudos to him and his parents because he’s a great kid.

 

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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2 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Dear @Coach Shep @jefftheref @kyhoosier29 @Sea Turtle  @IowaHoosierFan @NCHoosier32

We lost tonight. We sucked. We have to get better. We have to find shooters. Tonight was not what anyone wanted to see. I don’t know what else to say that you guys will say to pile on, but it is what it is.

We made the tournament this year. How many of you gave us even that? We have some great recruits coming in. 

Please try to keep things in perspective 

This was from the game thread.  Keep my name out of your mouth man.  Don't call me out like that.  I have every right to have my opinion on how the game was being played and how the players responded.  I never piled on anyone.  You don't have some great insight the rest of us don't.  I have been both positive when it warrants it and i criticize when i think its due. So get off you high horse

Edited by IowaHoosierFan
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Hey, y’all can fight like — if you want.  It is a public forum 

We got whooped today. Bobby Knight with Calbert or Alford wasn’t winning today either. 
 

What’s the go forward plan is what I’d like to discuss. 

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8 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Lander should be explained reality and should go.  Parker should graduate and move to the next big thing.  I think Race is going to go.  Durr and Kopp have not really worked out.  Phinisee is kind of in the same boat for me.

We need guys that can hit shots when they are wide open like what happened to us tonight.  We have had looks like that at several times this year and just clank, clank, clank.  

Was Race there tonight?sarc

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8 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Bilas’ view is idiotic to me.  Gas bag situation. If anything I think they should revert to looking at the last ten games as a factor. Certainly over a NET concept like margins of victory.  
 

edit to clarify I’m calling Bilas’ view idiotic. Not my friend, Steub’s.  

Those comments come from someone who never gad to play in to anything

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Good day for Saints yesterday, Peter, Patrick, and Mary (sounds like a singing group)...

I was glad Coach Woodson didn't hide behind any excuses, nor did Trayce in the post game...

The most melancholy day of the year for me...8 long months until I can see my team again...

 

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41 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Good day for Saints yesterday, Peter, Patrick, and Mary (sounds like a singing group)...

I was glad Coach Woodson didn't hide behind any excuses, nor did Trayce in the post game...

The most melancholy day of the year for me...8 long months until I can see my team again...

 

Yeah it stunk.

I will say one thing though, the "excuse" narrative is really bugging me.  Before I get into this, if this is not what you meant, then I apologize in advance.

Whenever pro schedules are released, what do they say about stretches where the team would play several games almost back to back to back?  Like if your favorite pro team played a game Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday and then a late game on Tuesday (EDT) and then began a West Coast swing (if they are an East Coast team) early on Thursday (like 4:30 West Coast time)?  Would that be a tough stretch?  Would people be figuring fatigue and travel into the performance on that Thursday game?  Yes.  A resounding yes at that and everyone here knows it.  So it is not an excuse to have seen the college kids (not true pros) absolutely run out of gas about 15 minutes into that game last night and say, "Hey, you know what, that sucked but it was a perfect storm, we were obviously fatigued."  Now add to that the fact the other team had 9 days rest and their coaching staff had at least 3.5 days to prepare to play against your team.  It is not an excuse to say that probably factored into the outcome.

One last thing, it has not been as bad on this board but some people act like being 18-23 means you are some superhuman.  "The guys at Normandy were tired..."   Yeah, they were in a war and so were their opponents.  The Allied staff didn't sleep deprive them leading up to the invasion and then say, "You are young guys, go get it."  This wasn't a war though.  And yeah, 18-23 year olds were able to get out there and play.  And they would have collectively kicked the ass of probably everyone of us at the same age because they are peak athletes.  HOWEVER.  However, the guys they are playing were also peak athletes.  Peak athletes on a week of rest.  Peak athletes who have been practicing to play us for days.  Peak athletes who did not spend the night and following morning, the day before the game, sitting on a cramped airplane.  Some of the people (not necessarily you...but definitely on another unnamed board) really kind of piss me off with their approach to this sometimes, and I am probably one of the more pessimistic posters.

"Oh are we still talking about that travel excuse?"  Yeah, we damn well are because if that type of game load would be tough for a pro athlete, then it damn sure is going to be a factor for a bunch of student athletes.  The incessant narrative that needs to be pushed by people who have not figured out that this is not 1980 freaking 7 gets old.  "The team was not up to my par."  No kidding.  It hasn't been up to par for the majority of 20 years.  Expecting a championship level mentality and instant turn around results from a team that had not sniffed the tournament in 5 years is on those fans.  They are not realistic.  Making the tournament after all that is an accomplishment.  

Call me an excuse man.  This team had deficiencies.  This coaching staff made moves I did not always agree with.  Those mistakes cost us games at times this year.  We were an imperfect team that relied on effort on the defensive end to win most games.  That effort won 21 games.  That efforts had us in about 6 to 8 games we lost to the very end.  That effort takes energy and a presence of mind.  Two things which ABSOLUTELY are impacted by fatigue.  That team we saw last night was not indicative of the ability of the team.  Would we have lost that game if we were full strength?  Perhaps.  St. Mary's is a good team.  Their offense was really good last night.  However, I think we were a step slow on just about everything last night and that impacts everything you do.  I really wish we could have entered that game without everything I pointed out above, I think the score would have been different if not the final W/L outcome.

Sorry IUFLA, most of that is not directed at you, I just have read some stuff across IU Fandom that has pissed me off over the last 10 hours or so.

Edited by IUCrazy2
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