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1 minute ago, Hoosier51 said:

That isn't why they are going after Dennis, they are going after him for his defense, not his supposed in your mind ability to break defense down off the dribble. We need shooters and he isn't it. Bates and Galloway MIGHT improve their shooting but it would be nice to have a player that is already a good shooter if they don't.

He doesn't possess this ability? 

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1 minute ago, Hoosier51 said:

That isn't why they are going after Dennis, they are going after him for his defense, not his supposed in your mind ability to break defense down off the dribble. We need shooters and he isn't it. Bates and Galloway MIGHT improve their shooting but it would be nice to have a player that is already a good shooter if they don't.

At the end of the day, they are going after him because they think he improves the team.

Who are the shooters out there that solve the need of shooting without creating a major liability in another area? There really aren't any. Pack would really be the only one I can think of, and we aren't in the running for him. All others that have experience are 35'ish% 3 point shooters. And you could make a case for or against whether that will translate to this team. Whether it's style of play, level of competition, etc.

There's no shooter out there that just wows anyone without being a bum in another area.

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1 hour ago, Hoosier51 said:

 Good coaches make mistakes all the time on players. I don't think Dennis is what the Hoosiers need. He is Rob 2.0.

 If he commits to the Hoosiers I will support him and hope he helps them win games. I just don't think he will move the needle as far as wins go. He is a good defender which is nice, but while they had problems defending wing players they had bigger problems making their 3s. Dennis doesn't help their shooting AT ALL, in fact he is a detriment when it comes to shooting.

I’ll support him and I trust Woody but Dennis doesn’t move the needle much nationally.  Hope he proves me wrong, if he even commits.

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53 minutes ago, btownqb said:

He doesn't possess this ability? 

 He is decent at it. But he is clearly being sought after for his defense not his ok ability to break down off the dribble. His offense is nothing special, in fact it is pretty pedestrian . I will assume that you watched the Hoosiers last season and should know this, but every single person that knows anything about college ball will tell you that their biggest problem was shooting the three. Dennis doesn't help  that at all.

Edited by Hoosier51
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Here are some advance metrics for Dennis and a comp on IU's team last year so you can compare.

Player Efficiency Rating

  • Dennis: 12.3
  • Galloway: 10.3

Offensive Rating 

  • Dennis: 103.0
  • Stewart: 103.1

Defensive Rating

  • Dennis: 99.6
  • Galloway: 99.9

Win Shares per 40

  • Dennis: .102
  • Leal: .102 (there literally was no rotation player close, Geronimo at .129 & Stewart at .080 were closest)

Effective FG%

  • Dennis: .439
  • Kopp: .456

Turnover % (higher is worse)

  • Dennis: 14.0
  • Phinisee: 13.6

Usage %

  • Dennis: 16.3
  • Galloway: 16.7

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, ephul said:

At the end of the day, they are going after him because they think he improves the team.

Who are the shooters out there that solve the need of shooting without creating a major liability in another area? There really aren't any. Pack would really be the only one I can think of, and we aren't in the running for him. All others that have experience are 35'ish% 3 point shooters. And you could make a case for or against whether that will translate to this team. Whether it's style of play, level of competition, etc.

There's no shooter out there that just wows anyone without being a bum in another area.

Your probably right that there might not be any shooters out there, that is why I would just stick with the team the way it is. We don't need another inefficient non shooter getting ample amount of playing time. And make no mistake if he does come to the Hoosiers he isn't joining them to get 10 to 15 minutes a game only. He has been a starter so they are going to play him over 20 minutes a game I would guess.

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9 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

The stats I posted above lean towards him having more of a Galloway like impact.  

We don't need another Galloway impact, we need someone that can shoot.

If the Hoosiers defense was bad I could see adding him, but while they were weak on the wing their whole 3point shooting as a team was weak. He just weakens it even more.

Edited by Hoosier51
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10 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

Your probably right that there might not be any shooters out there, that is why I would just stick with the team the way it is. We don't need another inefficient non shooter getting ample amount of playing time. And make no mistake if he does come to the Hoosiers he isn't joining them to get 10 to 15 minutes a game only. He has been a starter so they are going to play him over 20 minutes a game I would guess.

With all do respect to you but I am going to trust the coaching staff over guys on the message board.  We probably have only watched a few clips of Dennis where as coaches they probably have scouted him more thoroughly than we do.  These coaches have been recruiting really well this past year so I will trust their judgement.

Edited by IU Scott
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Just now, Hoosier51 said:

We don't need another Galloway impact, we need someone that can shoot.

I'm just presenting information, not offering an opinion on it.  The only thing I will say is that I will be very upset if we lose Jordan Geronimo due to a crowded roster.  Otherwise, I'll take a wait and see attitude. 

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Just now, Hoosier51 said:

Your probably right that there might not be any shooters out there, that is why I would just stick with the team the way it is. We don't need another inefficient non shooter getting ample amount of playing time. And make no mistake if he does come to the Hoosiers he isn't joining them to get 10 to 15 minutes a game only. He has been a starter so they are going to play him over 20 minutes a game I would guess.

Inefficient in what sense?

We don't really know what we are getting yet in Schifino, Bates, and Gunn. Kopp is what he is.

A known commodity that will at bare minimum give you lock down defense and decent handles wouldn't be the worst thing in the world when we are "hoping" freshmen and guys that played little last year suddenly produce.

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14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

With all do respect to you had t I am going to trust the coaching staff over guys on the message board.  We probably have only watched a few clips of Dennis where as coaches they probably have scouted him more thoroughly than we do.  These coaches have been recruiting really well this past year so I will trust their judgement.

 Ok since you are going to trust the coaching staff, never once should you question a player on the team if they are playing bad but still getting playing time. I don't know if you questioned Coach Woodsons rotations this season, but I don't want to hear one word from you about them, since you are going to trust him over message boards.

Edited by Hoosier51
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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm just presenting information, not offering an opinion on it.  The only thing I will say is that I will be very upset if we lose Jordan Geronimo due to a crowded roster.  Otherwise, I'll take a wait and see attitude. 

I'm not sure where I seen it, but the tweet said Jordan has no intentions of leaving. I would be pretty upset if we lost him and gained either Dennis or McNeil. 

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10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

With all do respect to you had t I am going to trust the coaching staff over guys on the message board.  We probably have only watched a few clips of Dennis where as coaches they probably have scouted him more thoroughly than we do.  These coaches have been recruiting really well this past year so I will trust their judgement.

Yeah me too...

...but I think they're wrong.  IU already has what Dennis brings.   He's regressed in his shooting. As Fouls showed, Miller Kopp is a better shooter.

If you're giving a scholarship you technically don't have, this is not the guy you use it on.  I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't see this kid really moving the needle.  IU might as well kept Phinisee.

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4 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

 Ok since you are going to trust the coaching staff, never once should you question a player on the team if they are playing bad but still getting playing time. Or I don't know if you questioned Coach Woodsons rotations this season but I don't want to hear one word from you about them. You know since message boards and all.

Didn't say you can't question this recruit but I will wait and see if he signs before dondeming a recruit. I see a guy who shot 40 percent from 3 as a freshman which shows his capabilities.  I see a guy whose talent around him went down which led to him to take tougher shots. If he comes here he will not be counted on to be the main threat do he can go back to taking better shots.

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19 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Wing from Wisconsin going off on us

Guy from Minnesota going crazy on 3s against us

Murray from Iowa killing us

Plummer/Frazier daggers

Ivey did enough 

Freshman from this Bucknuts 

Houstan

Whoever MSU threw out there

If DD can stop a few of these types, we will be a better team 

The angst is most of the board and Hoosier Nation as a whole wants a Troy Williams like wing without the sporadic turnovers.  What DD will add is a 6'5" defensive stopper.  If he does hit 33% from deep like he did in conference, that is perfectly fine.  He gets to the line and he hits at 79%.  

I just don't like the rumor that it's at the expense of our beat shooter who really found his niche late in the season.  

If we look at it like we trade him for Rob its an upgrade.  Rob was 6'1", a good defender but likely not AAC defensive player of the year.  Think of this.  He beat out every dude on Houston for conference defender of the year.

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One thing that comes to mind is that I think Woody might be attempting to upgrade, however slight it may be, to better support his mass substitution patterns. Based on what I know and can deduce from what I've heard, it could go something like this.  I'm probably wrong where I've slotted people, but I think the mass sub thing is something Woodson wants to do.  And, the roster below is better equipped to do that than this past season's was.  

Lineup #1

  • TJD
  • Race
  • Kopp
  • Hood-Schifno
  • X

Lineup #2

  • Reneau
  • Geronimo
  • Dennis
  • Bates
  • Galloway

Banks, Gunn, Leal, & Duncomb in the mix if there are injuries.  

 

Edit:  Yes, Scott, I am aware I listed 14 players.  I know all about the 13 scholarship thingy.  Unfortunately, it would have been very hard to make the post otherwise since we don't know how that would work out if Dennis commits. The good news is that once that is sorted out, and we know the roster, I can make a similar post and adjust accordingly.   

 

 

Edited by 5fouls
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10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

One thing that comes to mind is that I think Woody might be attempting to upgrade, however slight it may be, to better support his mass substitution patterns. Based on what I know and can deduce from what I've heard, it could go something like this.  I'm probably wrong where I've slotted people, but I think the mass sub thing is something Woodson wants to do.  And, the roster below is better equipped to do that than this past season's was.  

Lineup #1

  • TJD
  • Race
  • Kopp
  • Hood-Schifno
  • X

Lineup #2

  • Reneau
  • Geronimo
  • Dennis
  • Bates
  • Galloway

Banks, Gunn, Leal, & Duncomb in the mix if there are injuries.  

 

 

 

I think a lot of people are not talking enough about Banks. I have a feeling he will be more of a contributor than most are thinking he will be.  I think he probably will be one of our top shooters and will have a key role off the bench. Also you have 14 players listed so one will be off that list. unless someone can pay their own way.

XJ.

JHS.

Bates

Race.

TJD.

 

Galloway

Dennis

Banks.

JG.

Reneau

? Kopp, Duncomb, Gunn, Leal

 

Edited by IU Scott
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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think a lot of people are not talking enough about Banks. I have a feeling he will be more of a contributor than most are thinking he will be.  I think he probably will be one of our top shooters and will have a key role off the bench. Also you have 14 players listed so one will be off that list. unless someone can pay their own way.

XJ.

JHS.

Dennis.

Race.

TJD.

 

Galloway

Bates.

Banks.

JG.

Reneau

? Kopp, Duncomb, Gunn, Leal

 

Scott.  You have 14 players listed.  

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18 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

He attempted 4.4 threes per game, more than any IU player, while making 29%. Stewart attempted 4.0/game, making 39%. Kopp attempted 3.1/game, making 36%

I'm not worried at all about the outside shooting, and the attempts (although you make a good point).

Stewart and Kopp just weren't very good defensively, at least the games I watched.

I guess my point is, if you bring a guy like Dennis in, give him a few good open looks a game and get phenomenal defense, that's better than finding a 35% 3 point shooter that plays putrid defense. I think Dennis offers more than that player.

I think if we can put Kopp in a position to come off the bench and primarily be a 3 point shooter, we will be much better off. I think at this point, outside of Dennis, we'd just be adding more Kopp’s. Not that there isn't a role for a player like that, but do you need two players in that role?

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