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3 hours ago, BGleas said:

One man's opinion who is both an NBA and college basketball fan. 

1. Are the players better?

Absolutely, 100%

2. Is the basketball better?

Not even close, the NBA play is far superior

3. Are there more divas/beefs/mock tough guys/drama?

Sure, I'd lean NBA here, but I think it's much, much closer than most college fans would like to admit. Isn't it being a diva to an extent that coaches have to pander to handlers, AAU coaches, family member, etc., when recruiting a kid, and then do it all over again every offseason to convince them to stay? Coaches have to worry about every kid that things don't go perfect for entering the portal? 

All that stuff makes it challenging and creates drama, we just don't always hear about all of it as college fans compared to the NBA because the NBA is a national sport and college is more regional, etc. 

I know this makes it sound like I don’t like college basketball, but I love it. I love the pageantry, the history, the game environment, the rivalries, etc., but IMO the actual game play isn't really that good. 

I just can't believe how many big time players miss playoff games today. IT literally couldn't put much pressure on his one ankle and scored 25 points on the 4th quarter and played the next game. I know a bone bruise can be painful buy I doubt players like Jordan or Bird would have missed a playoff game with that injury.

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4 hours ago, btownqb said:

Dennis absolutely makes this team better. He has elements to his game that we don't have. 

Standing around too much is a result of not having enough ball handlers, and will be rectified this year. They have already mentioned playing with better pace, Dennis would help that. It certainly doesn't seem like a "huge" question mark though, just a natural adjustment that needs to occur now that we are more skilled and can execute that type of offense. 

He is a horrific offensive player. D we have TJD still. Let’s be real. He isn’t going anywhere. We have a better backup in Reneau.  Defensively we are set to clean up mistakes. We have Plenty of athletes to guard the wings. Dennis wasn’t solving the issues we had last year. 90+ Offensive team isn’t doing crap and Dennis ain’t improving that. 

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15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It is about what you enjoy and find entertaining and for me the NBA is neither.  I have probably watched a total of about 15 minutes of the playoffs.  I have watched more of the Reds than the NBA and basketball is by fary favorite sport.

I agree Scott. I'm a big basketball fan, but I have no interest in the NBA. To me, it's just not entertaining. OTOH, I've never been a big hockey fan, but the NHL playoffs are fantastic.

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2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

You know, I was a huge NBA fan growing up. Loved the 60s Celtics teams (hey, kids love a winner, and they were the epitome of the word). Then the Pacers came along, and I became more of an ABA fan. I still followed the NBA, but after Bill Russell retired, I lost interest in the C's, and just watched whatever teams were on...and for some reason I didn't like the Cowens/Jo Jo White Celtics.

The NBA was so bad in the late 70s-early 80s that they didn't even show the Finals live. Think about that for a minute.

Of course, I, like everybody else, got caught up in the Bird-Magic story, and that revitalized my fandom. I pretty much stayed a fan until the last 10 years or so. I think my fandom waned again when LeBron to Miami. I think it was then I realized that any semblance of loyalty was long gone. I did root for Cleveland when he returned and was glad they won, but not so much because of the return of the prodigal son, but more because before that Cleveland hadn't won anything since the Browns won in 64. 

I think what really turned me off was the "team stacking" and the perception that the players run the teams. I read an article today about Jeanie Buss still relying on Phil Jackson for advice, even though LeBron and his team don't like it...Good for her...

There are a few other things I'm not a big fan of. I'm not big on the woofing and lack of sportsmanship. The other day when someone posted the clip of Al Horford exacting revenge on Giannis for woofing, I smiled...I know it happens in college too, but not to the degree it does in the NBA. 

Anyway, again, just one man's opinion...

TL:DR - I have zero interest in pro basketball regardless of how talented the teams are and the "portal" & NIL is pushing cbb in that direction.

 

I developed my love of the game at age 10 or 11, exclusively as an ABA Pacers fan.  Conjecture about George McGinnis going to the Pacers out of IU is when I first paid any attention to college ball.  Then when the 74-75 team was kickin' butt, I became a fan and never waivered.  Unfortunately the ABA teams got shafted in the merger and all four were basically forced to start from scratch.  Combine that with so many whizzed away opportunuties and bad decisions and they became a door mat and my interest in pro ball was tempered.  Perobably I liked IU & the Pacers initially was because they won championships.  In today's NBA it's effectively a miracle for a small market team to catch the breaks and challenge for titles (i.e. alignment of the stars).  The NBA is obviously driven by money and thus ratings.  My perception is the league cares only about stars and ratings.  I've always hated the preferential treatment big name players get.  There have been times that I wondered if the NBA was fixed, but now I just don't give a crap about it. (one more thing: I hate going to NBA games with all the loud music and sideshow distractions).

NBA players are indeed way more talented than college players.  I've seen NBA guys play and fantasized about having just one player that good on IU.  Another thing is my belief that college players just don't play the game as well as players did in the past, even though they are physically superior (on average) today.

My guess is that NIL is going to turn off a lot of fans of teams that don't have success with it and/or from the free agency period, err, portal.  Fans of successful teams will continue being fans.

Edited by Zuckerkorn
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4 hours ago, btownqb said:

Dennis absolutely makes this team better. He has elements to his game that we don't have. 

Standing around too much is a result of not having enough ball handlers, and will be rectified this year. They have already mentioned playing with better pace, Dennis would help that. It certainly doesn't seem like a "huge" question mark though, just a natural adjustment that needs to occur now that we are more skilled and can execute that type of offense. 

I absolutely agree.  Listen to Woody's post season ending presser.  He said a need was wing defense (along with shooting).  I am sure he positively wanted Dennis but we didn't have a roster spot in the end.

We need the likes of Galloway and Scoop to get better there.

If we could have defended the wing with any semblance of resistance in a few games, we could have easily won 3-4 more games, which is all the difference in the world.  It was the difference in between winning and losing games and our staff understands that.  

If i had a concern for next year, this would be near the top in terms of lowering our ceiling.  It doesn't matter what our overall rankings were defensively; this issue was a direct cause and effect on some key games we lost.  I will admit that I think defense (and motor) first in my mentality.  It's the first thing I think about with a player, far more than shooting percentage or points per game.  I am the same way in football.  I love defense.  It's half the game but as fans we tend to over-emphasize offensive stats. They are important too, but as a whole fans tend to forget about defense when they talk about a player.  Read message boards, myself included.  We drift into predominantly talking offense with each player.

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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9 minutes ago, IU_Realist said:

He is a horrific offensive player. D we have TJD still. Let’s be real. He isn’t going anywhere. We have a better backup in Reneau.  Defensively we are set to clean up mistakes. We have Plenty of athletes to guard the wings. Dennis wasn’t solving the issues we had last year. 90+ Offensive team isn’t doing crap and Dennis ain’t improving that. 

Ok, he isn't a horrific offensive player. 

Defensively we are set to clean up any mistakes if TJD leaves. Dennis makes us a better team, not a ton better, but really no question we are better by adding a dude that can lock you down 1-4. Plus.. more then enough athleticism and ability to get to the rack. He would be a more then solid addition. 

Edited by btownqb
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Saw where Michigan's Caleb Houstan turned down an invite to the NBA Draft Combine.

I'd take that as he's coming back to the Wolverines. Important piece for them. 

I guess it could mean he believes he can only hurt his draft stock by attending, but I think that's a stretch

Moussa Diabate accepted the invite, so he's still up in the air.

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Just now, IUFLA said:

Saw where Michigan's Caleb Houstan turned down an invite to the NBA Draft Combine.

I'd take that as he's coming back to the Wolverines. Important piece for them. 

I guess it could mean he believes he can only hurt his draft stock by attending, but I think that's a stretch

Moussa Diabate accepted the invite, so he's still up in the air.

What i had read, unless something changed, was that rumors were that some team gave Houstan a promise. 

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9 minutes ago, IU_Realist said:

He is a horrific offensive player. D we have TJD still. Let’s be real. He isn’t going anywhere. We have a better backup in Reneau.  Defensively we are set to clean up mistakes. We have Plenty of athletes to guard the wings. Dennis wasn’t solving the issues we had last year. 90+ Offensive team isn’t doing crap and Dennis ain’t improving that. 

1. He's not a terrible offensive player. He isn't great but he's okay in that aspect.

2. He's a larger lockdown defender than we had last season. So he would solve a problem we had last year.

It's all moot. According to the other site and Rabjohns it won't be IU that he chooses today.

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11 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I agree Scott. I'm a big basketball fan, but I have no interest in the NBA. To me, it's just not entertaining. OTOH, I've never been a big hockey fan, but the NHL playoffs are fantastic.

I like the NBA but its way down on my list of sports.  There is only so much time an adult has to consume sports so you have to prioritize.  I do tend to try to catch 4th quarters of NBA playoff games after the kids go to bed.  They can be very entertaining and the quality of play relative to college is way better.

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1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I absolutely agree.  Listen to Woody's post season ending presser.  He said a need was wing defense (along with shooting).  I am sure he positively wanted Dennis but we didn't have a roster spot in the end.

We need the likes of Galloway and Scoop to get better there.

If we could have defended the wing with any semblance of resistance in a few games, we could have easily won 3-4 more games, which is all the difference in the world.  It was the difference in between winning and losing games and our staff understands that.  

If i had a concern for next year, this would be near the top in terms of lowering our ceiling.  It doesn't matter what our overall rankings were defensively; this issue was a direct cause and effect on some key games we lost.

 

At the end of the season I would have said "B.S." to anyone saying we wouldn't add a single portal player.  Of course, we didn't know Reneau would be a Hoosier at that time.

I do have a few concerns - firstly being any significant improvement will rely heavily on freshmen contributions and/or really big strides from returning players.  At least this incoming class includes two highly ranked players - never a guarantee but chances are higher that they can be impact players.  Going forward it'll be interesting to see how much we exploit the portal versus traditional recruiting.  

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Just now, BGleas said:

What i had read, unless something changed, was that rumors were that some team gave Houstan a promise. 

That'd make sense too. I hope he goes. I like our lineup against Dickinson and what they have coming in/back much more than if both Diabate and Houstan return...

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4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Saw where Michigan's Caleb Houstan turned down an invite to the NBA Draft Combine.

I'd take that as he's coming back to the Wolverines. Important piece for them. 

I guess it could mean he believes he can only hurt his draft stock by attending, but I think that's a stretch

Moussa Diabate accepted the invite, so he's still up in the air.

I am not sure about Diabate.  Those tall guys with skill and athleticism look decent on paper, but unless they are special, they are a commodity.  Just guys. They become Noah Vonleh or Ikpe Udoh and so on.  At least he will make significant money as he bounces around the league and is a player of nil consequence.

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3 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I absolutely agree.  Listen to Woody's post season ending presser.  He said a need was wing defense (along with shooting).  I am sure he positively wanted Dennis but we didn't have a roster spot in the end.

We need the likes of Galloway and Scoop to get better there.

If we could have defended the wing with any semblance of resistance in a few games, we could have easily won 3-4 more games, which is all the difference in the world.  It was the difference in between winning and losing games and our staff understands that.  

If i had a concern for next year, this would be near the top in terms of lowering our ceiling.  It doesn't matter what our overall rankings were defensively; this issue was a direct cause and effect on some key games we lost.

Indiana problem last year because of its offense. We want to pick and choose last year on a couple wins, look at the crap offense. Don’t be in the bottom six in points per game in conference, don’t be in the bottom half in assists in the conference, don’t be the worst free throw shooting team, don’t be 10th in 3 point shooting, don’t be 95th in Kenpom, etc….

Indiana was the best defense in the Big Ten. It improves its crappy offense it wins a ton of conference games. 
 

It has plenty of options at the wing from Bates, Galloway, JHS, etc to fill in defense.  I will bet that Indiana is a top 10-15 defense next year without Dennis.  What will it be on offense? That will determine IU next year. Dennis ain’t fixing that. We need Bates, JHS, etc to improve and get us better. 

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5 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

1. He's not a terrible offensive player. He isn't great but he's okay in that aspect.

2. He's a larger lockdown defender than we had last season. So he would solve a problem we had last year.

It's all moot. According to the other site and Rabjohns it won't be IU that he chooses today.

He isn’t okay. His PER over his career is horrible. His PER is below average for a guard. He did that in a two bid conference. His stats against tourney teams is horrible as well.  

Edited by IU_Realist
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9 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

At the end of the season I would have said "B.S." to anyone saying we wouldn't add a single portal player.  Of course, we didn't know Reneau would be a Hoosier at that time.

I do have a few concerns - firstly being any significant improvement will rely heavily on freshmen contributions and/or really big strides from returning players.  At least this incoming class includes two highly ranked players - never a guarantee but chances are higher that they can be impact players.  Going forward it'll be interesting to see how much we exploit the portal versus traditional recruiting.  

In the Kenya Hunter interview I referenced in another thread, he said IU's goal is to stay out of the portal.  My sense is he meant that they want to develop good recruits from high school and keep them out of the portal, while not adding many players there either.  At least that's the goal.  I see their point.

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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4 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I am not sure about Diabate.  Those tall guys with skill and athleticism look decent on paper, but unless they are special, they are a commodity.  Just guys. They become Noah Vonleh or Ikpe Udoh and so on.  At least he will make significant money as he bounces around the league and is a player of nil consequence.

He was really inconsistent last year, but he's got the tools to be a pretty good college player.

Pros? Don't know as I don't follow it too much...

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7 minutes ago, IU_Realist said:

Indiana problem last year because of its offense. We want to pick and choose last year on a couple wins, look at the crap offense. Don’t be in the bottom six in points per game in conference, don’t be in the bottom half in assists in the conference, don’t be the worst free throw shooting team, don’t be 10th in 3 point shooting, don’t be 95th in Kenpom, etc….

Indiana was the best defense in the Big Ten. It improves its crappy offense it wins a ton of conference games. 
 

It has plenty of options at the wing from Bates, Galloway, JHS, etc to fill in defense.  I will bet that Indiana is a top 10-15 defense next year without Dennis.  What will it be on offense? That will determine IU next year. Dennis ain’t fixing that. We need Bates, JHS, etc to improve and get us better. 

The offense was an issue, and the bigger issue.  I agree with you there.  But you are dismissing a big issue they had on defense.  This is exactly how Woody saw it, and I agree with him.  Even with the scoring droughts, if they had a defensive stopper, they still win some more games.  It wasn't just bad, it was basically helpless down the stretch in some key games.  Yes, some good dynamic players beat them, but we put up zero resistance on top wing players who could go get shots on their own.  You can't have that at this level.

I would have loved to get Dennis but we just don't have a scholly for him, so it is moot.  

The question is will some of our guys get waaay better to put this behind them.  I sure hope so, but I am concerned.  I like your point about Schifino and X on perimeter D, but that 3 spot on D is still a hole.  

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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28 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

TL:DR - I have zero interest in pro basketball regardless of how talented the teams are and the "portal" & NIL is pushing cbb in that direction.

 

I developed my love of the game at age 10 or 11, exclusively as an ABA Pacers fan.  Conjecture about George McGinnis going to the Pacers out of IU is when I first paid any attention to college ball.  Then when the 74-75 team was kickin' butt, I became a fan and never waivered.  Unfortunately the ABA teams got shafted in the merger and all four were basically forced to start from scratch.  Combine that with so many whizzed away opportunuties and bad decisions and they became a door mat and my interest in pro ball was tempered.  Perobably I liked IU & the Pacers initially was because they won championships.  In today's NBA it's effectively a miracle for a small market team to catch the breaks and challenge for titles (i.e. alignment of the stars).  The NBA is obviously driven by money and thus ratings.  My perception is the league cares only about stars and ratings.  I've always hated the preferential treatment big name players get.  There have been times that I wondered if the NBA was fixed, but now I just don't give a crap about it. (one more thing: I hate going to NBA games with all the loud music and sideshow distractions).

NBA players are indeed way more talented than college players.  I've seen NBA guys play and fantasized about having just one player that good on IU.  Another thing is my belief that college players just don't play the game as well as players did in the past, even though they are physically superior (on average) today.

My guess is that NIL is going to turn off a lot of fans of teams that don't have success with it and/or from the free agency period, err, portal.  Fans of successful teams will continue being fans.

From context, we are near the same age, and I loved watching Jerry Baker doing Pacer games on Channel 4 with the red, white and blue ball.  I think that was the first color ball I got.  Billy Knight, Darnell Hillman, Don Buse, etc.  So glad the franchise got into the NBA.  Only four teams were allowed to.

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5 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

From context, we are near the same age, and I loved watching Jerry Baker doing Pacer games on Channel 4 with the red, white and blue ball.  I think that was the first color ball I got.  Billy Knight, Darnell Hillman, Don Buse, etc.  So glad the franchise got into the NBA.  Only four teams were allowed to.

Ehh.. I think the Flint Tropics should have gotten the bid over the Nuggets though. Jackie Moon was going to be an incredible owner in the NBA.... he wrestled a bear, Bob. 

Edited by btownqb
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5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Ehh.. I think the Flint Tropics should have gotten the bid over the Nuggets though. Jackie Moon was going to be an incredible owner in the NBA.... he wrestled a bear, Bob. 

LOL.  Will Ferrell, John C Reilly, Steve Carrell.  The minute I hear they are doing a movie, i am all in.

image.thumb.png.efef71ad3b0e1abb1642b90cae20e006.png 

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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26 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The offense was an issue, and the bigger issue.  I agree with you there.  But you are dismissing a big issue they had on defense.  This is exactly how Woody saw it, and I agree with him.  Even with the scoring droughts, if they had a defensive stopper, they still win some more games.  It wasn't just bad, it was basically helpless down the stretch in some key games.  Yes, some good dynamic players beat them, but we put up zero resistance on top wing players who could go get shots on their own.  You can't have that at this level.

I would have loved to get Dennis but we just don't have a scholly for him, so it is moot.  

The question is will some of our guys get waaay better to put this behind them.  I sure hope so, but I am concerned.  I like your point about Schifino and X on perimeter D, but that 3 spot on D is still a hole.  

If he saw it as a bigger issue, there wouldn’t have been kids back. If this kid was somehow better at offense then we wouldn’t have been competing against Texas A&M, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Clemson and K state. Every computer stats suggests we are worse with him. He hasn’t proven Jack offensively and his defense isn’t a need. I completely disagree.  The little effect he will have doesn’t offset the load of crap he has been offensively for the past four seasons.  Anything you think you get from him offensively is hope.  

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30 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

From context, we are near the same age, and I loved watching Jerry Baker doing Pacer games on Channel 4 with the red, white and blue ball.  I think that was the first color ball I got.  Billy Knight, Darnell Hillman, Don Buse, etc.  So glad the franchise got into the NBA.  Only four teams were allowed to.

Marathon gas stations use to have a promo. 10 gallons of gas, you could get a (rubber) ABA ball for around $3. Every kid I knew had one...

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