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1 hour ago, go_iu_bb said:

1. He's not a terrible offensive player. He isn't great but he's okay in that aspect.

2. He's a larger lockdown defender than we had last season. So he would solve a problem we had last year.

It's all moot. According to the other site and Rabjohns it won't be IU that he chooses today.

I'm not upset.  He wouldn't start on next year's IU team and I don't see him adding much in win share even with his "lock down" defense.

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15 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I'm not upset.  He wouldn't start on next year's IU team and I don't see him adding much in win share even with his "lock down" defense.

I don't think anyone is upset. I'm certainly not. But for the lack of open mins we have... we weren't adding anyone better, and he absolutely gives us a chance to improve the pace at which we play offensively. 

Would have been ungodly huge to have him this past season, especially when TG got hurt.  

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49 minutes ago, IU_Realist said:

If he saw it as a bigger issue, there wouldn’t have been kids back. If this kid was somehow better at offense then we wouldn’t have been competing against Texas A&M, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Clemson and K state. Every computer stats suggests we are worse with him. He hasn’t proven Jack offensively and his defense isn’t a need. I completely disagree.  The little effect he will have doesn’t offset the load of crap he has been offensively for the past four seasons.  Anything you think you get from him offensively is hope.  

There was no one else he could kick off.  He wasn't going to kick off Leal.  That would be a PR nightmare.  He needed Kopp as a shooter.  No good candidates from the rest of the roster.  

As for need, we can just disagree with how we covered the likes of Murray, Harper Jr, Branham, and Johnny Davis.  Lot of winninable games there if we could have done literally anything.  And what was most telling is what the opposing coaches did.  They had no respect for our personnel there and attacked us relentlessly at that exact spot late.  That tells you all you need to know.  What they all had in common was the ability to get shots at different levels.  Not having an answer killed us.  I don't even see how this is debatable if you saw those games.

The guys I mentioned are gone but there are always the next guys.  There will always be wing guys who can go get buckets different ways.

I am not criticizing the staff but it's a loss because we didn't have a spot.  Next year, I like your idea of Schifino and a stronger, more experienced Galloway.  I think Bates will be alot better but it would take an insane jump to go from substandard defender to a guy you could go sic on somebody.  I am hoping for incremental improvement with him.  

We will see how it plays out.  Hopefully it's not going to kill us like it did last year.  Fingers crossed.  If we muddle around, it caps what we can do in the end because this is a critical role in today's game.  You gotta be able to defend on the wing.  Athleticism on the wing with few exceptions (Romeo) has been a problem and a huge culprit in our problems the last several years.  

Dennis wouldn't have had to play 30 minutes either.  He would be heavily in the rotation for sure but if we needed shooting, Kopp would be out there. Galloway can play some 2 and 3.  We could have worked it out.  

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

There was no one else he could kick off.  He wasn't going to kick off Leal.  That would be a PR nightmare.  He needed Kopp as a shooter.  No good candidates from the rest of the roster.  

As for need, we can just disagree with how we covered the likes of Murray, Harper Jr, Branham, and Johnny Davis.  Lot of winninable games there if we could have done literally anything.  And what was most telling is what the opposing coaches did.  They had no respect for our personnel there and attacked us relentlessly at that exact spot late.  That tells you all you need to know.  What they all had in common was the ability to get shots at different levels.  Not having an answer killed us.  I don't even see how this is debatable if you saw those games.

The guys I mentioned are gone but there are always the next guys.  There will always be wing guys who can go get buckets different ways.Dennis wouldn't have had to play 30 minutes either.  He would be heavily in the rotation for sure but if we needed shooting, Kopp would be out there.  Galloway can play some 2 and 3.  We could have worked it out.  

I am not criticizing the staff but it's a loss because we didn't have a spot.  Next year, I like your idea of Schifino and a stronger, more experiences Galloway.  I think Bates will be alot better but it would take an insane jump to go from substandard defender to guy you could go sic on somebody.  I am hoping for incremental improvement with him.  

We will see how it plays out.  Hopefully it's not going to kill us like it did last year.  Fingers crossed.  If we muddle around, it caps what we can do in the end because this is a critical role in today's game.  You gotta be able to defend on the wing.  Athleticism on the wing with few exceptions (Romeo) has been a problem and a huge culprit in our problems the last several years.  

I just think adding the AACs def POY to an already really good roster is solid, with all things considered! 

Looks like TJD is coming back though.  🤷‍♂️

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It's somewhat of a pointless argument because he won't be a Hoosier.  Next step is to hope our guys get a lot better defending on the wing.  That is something we can all agree on.

Bates has good length and quickness.  He just needs to make up his mind that he is going to be a two way player.  He has to have a come to Jesus moment that there is more to basketball than jacking up shots.  Galloway has potential and he plays relentlessly.  Gotta keep him healthy.  Schifino is strong and has size.  

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4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

You know, I was a huge NBA fan growing up. Loved the 60s Celtics teams (hey, kids love a winner, and they were the epitome of the word). Then the Pacers came along, and I became more of an ABA fan. I still followed the NBA, but after Bill Russell retired, I lost interest in the C's, and just watched whatever teams were on...and for some reason I didn't like the Cowens/Jo Jo White Celtics.

The NBA was so bad in the late 70s-early 80s that they didn't even show the Finals live. Think about that for a minute.

Of course, I, like everybody else, got caught up in the Bird-Magic story, and that revitalized my fandom. I pretty much stayed a fan until the last 10 years or so. I think my fandom waned again when LeBron to Miami. I think it was then I realized that any semblance of loyalty was long gone. I did root for Cleveland when he returned and was glad they won, but not so much because of the return of the prodigal son, but more because before that Cleveland hadn't won anything since the Browns won in 64. 

I think what really turned me off was the "team stacking" and the perception that the players run the teams. I read an article today about Jeanie Buss still relying on Phil Jackson for advice, even though LeBron and his team don't like it...Good for her...

There are a few other things I'm not a big fan of. I'm not big on the woofing and lack of sportsmanship. The other day when someone posted the clip of Al Horford exacting revenge on Giannis for woofing, I smiled...I know it happens in college too, but not to the degree it does in the NBA. 

Anyway, again, just one man's opinion...

A lot of valid reasons there and I understand most of them. I get not liking the "team stacking". I don't love that either, but the flip side is sports are always better when there is a villain to root against. It was fun and entertaining to root against the LeBron Heat teams, it's fun to root against the KD-Irving Nets, etc., etc. I get where you're coming from on that, some just don't like it.

I don't understand the "woofing and lack of sportsmanship" thing. I don't think there's ever been more sportsmanship in the NBA than there is now. Guys constantly hugging and trading jersey's after the game. I've never seem more opponents try and help each other up than you do today. There's no close-lining of players ala Kevin McHale on Rambis or Laimbeer on Bird. The game is infinitely "cleaner", etc.

I think the last 10-15 years have absolutely been one of the best runs the NBA has ever had. The playoffs have been phenomenal over that span. This is an arbitrary span, but over the last 12 years the Finals have had 3 game 7's and 4 series go 6 games compared to just one sweep. During that time we also had the Celtics take the LeBron Cavs to 7 games in the ECF, the Celtics take LeBron's Heat 7 games in the ECF, you had the Warriors-Rockets go 7 in the WCF and the Durant OKC team take the Warriors 7 in the WCF, etc. I'm sure there are more conference finals examples, those are just the ones that popped into my head. 

Not everyone has to like the NBA, I get that. But the playoffs over the last 10-15 years have been phenomenal and entertaining basketball with largely great storylines to go with it. . 

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I just can't believe how many big time players miss playoff games today. IT literally couldn't put much pressure on his one ankle and scored 25 points on the 4th quarter and played the next game. I know a bone bruise can be painful buy I doubt players like Jordan or Bird would have missed a playoff game with that injury.

Are you referring to Morant? Not sure who you're talking about? 

The flip side is I just watched Emiid try to carry his team with a torn ligament in his thumb, a broken orbital bone on his eye and a few days removed from a concussion. I remember Scottie Pippen missing a conference finals game because of a headache, so there's that. 

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The which generation of ball is better gets tiresome for me.  It's just opinion and most of it is some combination of uninformed and biased.  Basically everyone is wrong.  I think the old timers go into get off my lawn mode and the young guys essentially don't realize how good players were in earlier generations. 

I fell prey to it too.  When I was young, I laughed at the Bob Cousy's from a much earlier time.  There were some funny references.  We all did.  He looked like an accountant out there (no offense to accountants).  There is a natural arrogance about your own time, and we all fall prey to it.  There are alot of players today that are no big deal athletically in prominent roles and there were phenomenal athletes in the 1980s.  The argument keeps coming up and unless you take a neutral, self-aware position, I'd say you are in quicksand.

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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5 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The which generation of ball is better gets tiresome for me.  It's just opinion and most of it is some combination of uninformed and biased.  Basically everyone is wrong.  I think the old timers go into get off my lawn mode and the young guys essentially don't realize how good players were in earlier generations. 

I fell prey to it too.  When I was young, I laughed at the Bob Cousy's from a much earlier time.  There were some funny references.  We all did.  He looked like an accountant out there (no offense to accountants).  There is a natural arrogance about your own time, and we all fall prey to it.  There are alot of players today that are no big deal athletically today in prominent roles and there were phenomenal athletes in the 1980s.  The argument keeps coming up and unless you take a neutral, self-aware position, I'd say you are in quicksand.

What I heard you say is that I'm right, since I grew up on 80's/90's basketball and still love basketball today. Not young, not old, middle-aged. :coffee:

🤣

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21 minutes ago, BGleas said:

What I heard you say is that I'm right, since I grew up on 80's/90's basketball and still love basketball today. Not young, not old, middle-aged. :coffee:

🤣

The styles of play are different and math tells you launching threes makes sense.  In the 80's, the three was a newer phenomenon, and there is a natural progression that takes time to move from existing patterns where the game was established for so long.  Having said that, you'd still be going to Kareem's sky hook even if you only get two points.  Or Kevin McHale in the post.  

In football there is way more team speed.  We have LB's running like safeties used to.  But the brute physicality is gone.  The huge, aggressive LB who isn't fast has been replaced by the much smaller, explosive guy who could cover back or TE.  The rules have changed.  Far less emphasis on the run game.  Running backs barely go in the first round of the draft.  They used to be premium draft picks. There is less hand to hand combat at receiver/corner.  Qb's should borderline wear a pink, no touch jersey.  The rules are ridiculous so QB's put up pinball stats.  And they play much, much longer because they aren't getting thrown to the ground the same way.  It's a different game but there are a ton of guys from that era who would thrive today.  There is nobody today who can sling it like Danny Marino could.  

I'd say the games have changed dramatically.  There are cycles.  They will change again.  Athletes continually get better on the margins through "nutrition."  They train year long with a lot more science instead of selling cars, suits, and insurance in the offseason.  They don't smoke cigarettes to the same degree, lol.  There are stories of coaches and players smoking at halftime.  That's insane. But athleticism s incrementally better and is reflection of body development and maintenance.  It is not like we are talking about one million years of evolution.  There isn't a genetic difference in such a comically short period of time.  Players are players and you have to judge them against their opponents.  

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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40 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Bates has good length and quickness.  He just needs to make up his mind that he is going to be a two way player.  He has to have a come to Jesus moment that there is more to basketball than jacking up shots.  Galloway has potential and he plays relentlessly.  Gotta keep him healthy.  Schifino is strong and has size.  

I don't think there was a player I was more disappointed in last year than Bates.  Huge potential, but simply looked like he cared about as much as early Landon Turner.  I really hope it clicks for him this year, because I think he has as much God-given talent as anyone on the team, but you don't go to college on a basketball scholarship to play...you go to play basketball.  I hope Tamar cares as much about making buckets and making stops as he cares about making...OK...gonna stop now before I step over the line.

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

What i had read, unless something changed, was that rumors were that some team gave Houstan a promise. 

If they lose both Diabate and Houstan and TJD comes back I would put IU at 1 in the big ten

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2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The styles of play are different and math tells you launching threes makes sense.  In the 80's, threes was a newer phenomenon, and there is a natural progression to move from existing patterns where the game was established for so long.  Having said that, you'd still be going to Kareem's sky hook even if you only get two points.  Or Kevin McHale in the post.  

In football there is way more team speed.  We have LB's running like safeties used to.  But the brute physicality is gone.  The huge, aggressive LB who isn't fast has been replaced by the much smaller, explosive guy who could cover back or TE.  The rules have changed.  Far less emphasis on the run game.  Running backs barely go in the first.  Less hand to hand combat at receiver/corner.  Qb's should borderline wear a pink, no touch jersey.  The rules are ridiculous so QB's put up pinball stats.  It's a different game but there are a ton of guys from that era that would thrive today.  There is nobody today who can sling it like Danny Marino could.  

I'd say the games have changed dramatically.  There are cycles.  They will change again.  Athletes continually get better on the margins through "nutrition."  They train year long with a lot more science instead of selling cars, suits, and insurance in the offseason.  But it is incrementally better.  It is not like we are talking about one million years of evolution.  There isn't a genetic difference in such a comically short period of time.  Players are players and you have to judge them against their opponents.  

To be honest, I'm not even really sure what we're talking about anymore? 🤣

A few of us were talking about college basketball vs the NBA, and then Scott jumped in with something about Isiah Thomas in the playoffs in the 80's playing hurt, which didn't really have anything to do with what we were talking about. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

To be honest, I'm not even really sure what we're talking about anymore? 🤣

A few of us were talking about college basketball vs the NBA, and then Scott jumped in with something about Isiah Thomas in the playoffs in the 80's playing hurt, which didn't really have anything to do with what we were talking about. 

LOL that wasn't directed at you by a longshot....I got going in my own mind.  It's been a long week!

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28 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I don't think there was a player I was more disappointed in last year than Bates.  Huge potential, but simply looked like he cared about as much as early Landon Turner.  I really hope it clicks for him this year, because I think he has as much God-given talent as anyone on the team, but you don't go to college on a basketball scholarship to play...you go to play basketball.  I hope Tamar cares as much about making buckets and making stops as he cares about making...OK...gonna stop now before I step over the line.

Yep, he focuses. Believe in coaches.  Let's roll. Not the first 18-19 year old that's needed to grow up.  You're exactly right. 

He could be the main reason we haven't been massively recruiting wings, though. Jmo

Step one: not transfer. check. 

Edited by btownqb
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53 minutes ago, BGleas said:

A lot of valid reasons there and I understand most of them. I get not liking the "team stacking". I don't love that either, but the flip side is sports are always better when there is a villain to root against. It was fun and entertaining to root against the LeBron Heat teams, it's fun to root against the KD-Irving Nets, etc., etc. I get where you're coming from on that, some just don't like it.

I don't understand the "woofing and lack of sportsmanship" thing. I don't think there's ever been more sportsmanship in the NBA than there is now. Guys constantly hugging and trading jersey's after the game. I've never seem more opponents try and help each other up than you do today. There's no close-lining of players ala Kevin McHale on Rambis or Laimbeer on Bird. The game is infinitely "cleaner", etc.

I think the last 10-15 years have absolutely been one of the best runs the NBA has ever had. The playoffs have been phenomenal over that span. This is an arbitrary span, but over the last 12 years the Finals have had 3 game 7's and 4 series go 6 games compared to just one sweep. During that time we also had the Celtics take the LeBron Cavs to 7 games in the ECF, the Celtics take LeBron's Heat 7 games in the ECF, you had the Warriors-Rockets go 7 in the WCF and the Durant OKC team take the Warriors 7 in the WCF, etc. I'm sure there are more conference finals examples, those are just the ones that popped into my head. 

Not everyone has to like the NBA, I get that. But the playoffs over the last 10-15 years have been phenomenal and entertaining basketball with largely great storylines to go with it. . 

I am opposite of the other guy because I hate seeing guys being all buddy/buddy with each other.  Maybe friends off the court but you are enemies on the court.

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28 minutes ago, BGleas said:

To be honest, I'm not even really sure what we're talking about anymore? 🤣

A few of us were talking about college basketball vs the NBA, and then Scott jumped in with something about Isiah Thomas in the playoffs in the 80's playing hurt, which didn't really have anything to do with what we were talking about. 

Just saying bguys missing playoff games is one of the reasons why I am not into the NBA.  If some of those guys don't care then why should fans.

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3 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

From context, we are near the same age, and I loved watching Jerry Baker doing Pacer games on Channel 4 with the red, white and blue ball.  I think that was the first color ball I got.  Billy Knight, Darnell Hillman, Don Buse, etc.  So glad the franchise got into the NBA.  Only four teams were allowed to.

Do you remember the (awful) ABA basketballs you could get at Marathon gas stations? Made of vinyl and became rock hard in the winter (when we all played outdoors year round).  My uncle ran a Marathon station and I got all kinds of merchandise (posters, cups, stickers...).  Speaking of that, the Marathon Scoreboard at the colusseum and a chosen winner got 25 gallons of that good Marathon gas (in Jerry Baker's voice).

With the merger, perhaps the shrewdest business deal in the history of sports was what the two guys that owned the Spirits of St. Louis did when the merger occurred....

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not sure why this thread has gone to debating the NBA AGAIN.  just for fun, i'll say again that i'd watch almost anything other than the NBA on TV and sit back and watch all of my favorite people who wait to jump on anything i say to tell me how great it is...

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3 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

In the Kenya Hunter interview I referenced in another thread, he said IU's goal is to stay out of the portal.  My sense is he meant that they want to develop good recruits from high school and keep them out of the portal, while not adding many players there either.  At least that's the goal.  I see their point.

IMO, that would be ideal.  Just have to keep your guys (and hope they don't go to the NBA).

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I don't understand the "woofing and lack of sportsmanship" thing.

I think this ground has been covered numerous times, but...

Just like the Giannis/Al Horford example. All the bowing up, posturing, trash talk just isn't my idea of what sports is about. I was glad to see Giannis get his just desserts...

Just for the record, I didn't care for it when Bird did it, either...

But, to each his own. I like sports for the competition, not the sideshow...

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