Hoosierhoopster Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, rico said: Doesn't matter why. Answer my question. Why should I? Who cares? What we were talking about was whether people should just assume, or be naive in not assuming that Fife knew about the alleged rape in 2015. Would I want my kid anywhere near MSU? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Why should I? Who cares? What we were talking about was whether people should just assume, or be naive in not assuming that Fife knew about the alleged rape in 2015. Would I want my kid anywhere near MSU? Of course not. So you are basically saying there is a dark cloud hanging over East Lansing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, rico said: Hmmmm....let me ask you a hypothetical scenario HH. Let's say you have a son that is a D1 prospect and Fife and MSU are recruiting him hard. What is the first thing you would ask Fife as a concerned Father? I'll answer too. Sorry Coach Fife. I need you to get big man here. I need to look him in his eye. I need to see how he responds to my questions in person. I need to see how he responds each time I ask him how could you have not known what was going on in your program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/23461939/michigan-state-spartans-interim-president-john-engler-says-student-safety-priority-winning-games Engler says they don't/haven't put winning over student safety when it looks like to the rest of the world that's exactly what they've done and he makes it sound like it is exactly what they're doing with these statements, "I think in Dantonio and Izzo you've got two coaches with great personal integrity who run very clean programs," Engler said. "That is not to say that everybody in those programs has always comported with what's expected of them." & "Tom's got a team that's going to compete for a national championship next year," Engler said. "He's going to be here. He's a Spartan for life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 Agree...Engler just spoke out of both sides of his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, cybergates said: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/23461939/michigan-state-spartans-interim-president-john-engler-says-student-safety-priority-winning-games Engler says they don't/haven't put winning over student safety when it looks like to the rest of the world that's exactly what they've done and he makes it sound like it is exactly what they're doing with these statements, "I think in Dantonio and Izzo you've got two coaches with great personal integrity who run very clean programs," Engler said. "That is not to say that everybody in those programs has always comported with what's expected of them." & "Tom's got a team that's going to compete for a national championship next year," Engler said. "He's going to be here. He's a Spartan for life." Just as I expected. MSU is rotten to the core. Not only those 2 questionable coaches are safe, but MSU will fight 'till the end using the legal system to protect its false pride. They don't take responsibility for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: I'll answer too. Sorry Coach Fife. I need you to get big man here. I need to look him in his eye. I need to see how he responds to my questions in person. I need to see how he responds each time I ask him how could you have not known what was going on in your program. There it is. How can you not ask? How can you not have it in your mind? Geez, I don't give a damn about what the MSU athletic department says...nor do I care what the MSU police say. I ain't gonna use the word "naive", but one would have to be pretty "obtuse" not to recognize a problem at that institution let alone deny it. Fife needs to abandon ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Walton's actions that I take it you're talking about happened in 2010. He was accused of raping a woman in 2010, with two players then on the team. This incident occurred in 2015, and concerned 3 then current basketball players. Unless I'm missing something, you're not following the case we were talking about. In terms of Walton, two separate incidents happened in the same year. Actually three. Assault and Battery. Attempted rape. And rape From the linked article : ".... Walton's name would come up again in another allegation involving a MSU student. He and two basketball players---who played for him in the tournament---were named in a sexual assault report made by the woman and her parents TO THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT (Caps are mine) .... her parents later told the athletic director that she had been raped by Walton and the two players." Pattern of denial, inaction, information suppression at Michigan State goes beyond Larry Nassar case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnRon Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 29 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said: Just as I expected. MSU is rotten to the core. Not only those 2 questionable coaches are safe, but MSU will fight 'till the end using the legal system to protect its false pride. They don't take responsibility for anything. Makes you wonder if the UNC situation set a precedent for schools to not take any responsibility, and find legal loopholes to protect themselves so they can continue to win (make money) with no regard for common decency. I can understand a school doing it to some extent for most things, but this does not include sexual assault and rape. MSU is showing a complete lack of regard for the safety of their student body, and it's disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Why should I? Who cares? What we were talking about was whether people should just assume, or be naive in not assuming that Fife knew about the alleged rape in 2015. Would I want my kid anywhere near MSU? Of course not. To be clear, you didn't get called naive for not assuming he was guilty. You got called naive for assuming he was innocent. Like I said, not getting into the middle of you and Btown, I like you both, but you're drastically changing the story of what he called you naive for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, milehiiu said: In terms of Walton, two separate incidents happened in the same year. Actually three. Assault and Battery. Attempted rape. And rape From the linked article : ".... Walton's name would come up again in another allegation involving a MSU student. He and two basketball players---who played for him in the tournament---were named in a sexual assault report made by the woman and her parents TO THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT (Caps are mine) .... her parents later told the athletic director that she had been raped by Walton and the two players." Pattern of denial, inaction, information suppression at Michigan State goes beyond Larry Nassar case Again, this is regarding a 2010 incident, NOT what we were talking about above, right? "According to the report -- a letter from Allswede, the university sexual assault counselor, to campus administrators that detailed allegations of sexual assaults on campus -- the incident occurred in April 2010." This is really getting silly, but what you agreed to above concerned the entirely separate 2015 incident not involving Walton, and what you quoted involved Walton, in 2010. Again, unless I'm missing something, I'm really not getting your "common sense" point about what Fife should have known, regarding the 2015 incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, KoB2011 said: To be clear, you didn't get called naive for not assuming he was guilty. You got called naive for assuming he was innocent. Like I said, not getting into the middle of you and Btown, I like you both, but you're drastically changing the story of what he called you naive for. What? Lol man, to be clear, to the extent it matters (it really doesn't), that's just not right. "I think it's naive to believe he didn't know of the alleged rapes that happened by the MSU basketball players." That's what he said was naive, to think that Fife didn't know of the alleged rapes. No one assumed anyone was guilty or innocent. Fife? Guilty or innocent? I guess you could say it's naive to assume facts, and then castigate someone (Fife, not me, lol) based on assumed facts, while completely ignoring the allegations, as made through her attorney in court filings, the police reports, and the U's response. But that's not really naive, it's more just jaded disbelief of anyone's lack of knowledge based on what a dirty program MSU now is known to be. That I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, CapnRon said: Makes you wonder if the UNC situation set a precedent for schools to not take any responsibility, and find legal loopholes to protect themselves so they can continue to win (make money) with no regard for common decency. I can understand a school doing it to some extent for most things, but this does not include sexual assault and rape. MSU is showing a complete lack of regard for the safety of their student body, and it's disgusting. Couldn't agree more. The NCAA's complete failure to deal with UNC's demonstrated decade's old academic fraud set a really, really bad precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: What? Lol man, to be clear, to the extent it matters (it really doesn't), that's just not right. "I think it's naive to believe he didn't know of the alleged rapes that happened by the MSU basketball players." That's what he said was naive, to think that Fife didn't know of the alleged rapes. No one assumed anyone was guilty or innocent. Fife? Guilty or innocent? I guess you could say it's naive to assume facts, and then castigate someone (Fife, not me, lol) based on assumed facts, while completely ignoring the allegations, as made through her attorney in court filings, the police reports, and the U's response. But that's not really naive, it's more just jaded disbelief of anyone's lack of knowledge based on what a dirty program MSU now is known to be. That I get. You're wrong. You said there was no reason to think Fife is involved in anything. Any reasonable person would read that as you claiming he is innocent. On 4/13/2018 at 8:27 PM, Hoosierhoopster said: No reason to think Fife is involved in anything On 5/9/2018 at 2:13 PM, btownqb said: That's a pretty naive stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, rico said: There it is. How can you not ask? How can you not have it in your mind? Geez, I don't give a damn about what the MSU athletic department says...nor do I care what the MSU police say. I ain't gonna use the word "naive", but one would have to be pretty "obtuse" not to recognize a problem at that institution let alone deny it. Fife needs to abandon ship. Who did not recognize a problem at MSU, or denied it? What's really obtuse here? If you're referring to my discussion, in which I repeatedly talked about how bad things are at MSU and how disgusted I am with that program, well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: You're wrong. You said there was no reason to think Fife is involved in anything. Any reasonable person would read that as you claiming he is innocent. No I'm not, you just ignored what I quoted, as his reply when I asked him to clarify exactly what he was saying was naive. And yes, at the start I said (I think) there's no reason to think Fife was involved in anything -- but that's not what we discussed. What exactly is the point? So this has turned into something of a bizarre discussion. If we have to keep it going, let's stay to what was actually discussed. I think it's ridiculous to say it's naive to think, on the known facts, Fife didn't know anything about the alleged 2015 rape. I don't buy into making assumptions and then castigating Fife. If she said she informed the athletic dept., or reported her allegations to the police, or followed up with the police, or told someone in the athletic dept., etc. there would be good reason to believe Fife knew, at the time. But those things do not gel with what has been reported, which, unfortunately, appears to reflect, instead, that the counselors buried her allegations after dissuading her from pursuing them, which is sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnRon Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 I don't think it's necessary to call the man Naive or obtuse. It's an insult. You don't agree with him, leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, CapnRon said: I don't think it's necessary to call the man Naive or obtuse. It's an insult. You don't agree with him, leave it at that. One little scenario on one little topic I called his opinion naive. I never pretended like he just walked around oblivious to the entire world nor do I think that. There's no reason it needed to be taken as an insult, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that as well. We're all naive to some things, that's human nature. Heck I was naive to believe some stuff I found out at school just earlier today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 45 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Who did not recognize a problem at MSU, or denied it? What's really obtuse here? If you're referring to my discussion, in which I repeatedly talked about how bad things are at MSU and how disgusted I am with that program, well. You, my friend, can take my comments anyway you want to. But don't brush aside the "court of public opinion" that is going on in this thread. I, for one, have/had no problem with btown using the term "naive". Geez, it was a great word to use. And right now I need my circus music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 23 minutes ago, CapnRon said: I don't think it's necessary to call the man Naive or obtuse. It's an insult. You don't agree with him, leave it at that. Nobody called him either there "Skipper". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnRon Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, rico said: Nobody called him either there "Skipper". lol you guys are ridiculous. I hope if hoosierhoopster learns anything from this, it's to not waste his/her time debating the peanut gallery any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, CapnRon said: lol you guys are ridiculous. I hope if hoosierhoopster learns anything from this, it's to not waste his/her time debating the peanut gallery any longer. Interesting tid bit......you better go back and read and take HH's medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 41 minutes ago, CapnRon said: lol you guys are ridiculous. I hope if hoosierhoopster learns anything from this, it's to not waste his/her time debating the peanut gallery any longer. Ahhh so you call us the peanut gallery.. is that an insult or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 ok guys. Thats enough with the insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnRon Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 40 minutes ago, btownqb said: Ahhh so you call us the peanut gallery.. is that an insult or? Well if you go back and read, I didn't call anybody anything lol sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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