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Let's start arguing about starting lineup again!


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5 minutes ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

Like Woodson had to have a meeting with him to convince him to stay. His dad loved Matta and thought Trey would be more a center piece at Butler, rather than a solid role player here at IU. 

I love Trey, but until his 3 point average gets above 30% he's not going to be a "centerpiece" anywhere...

He'd probably start at Butler, something he's not assured of at IU...

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10 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I don’t want to pile on Geronimo. But some of you are so, so unfair to the kid with the expectations you’re putting on him.

Good post.

I feel the same about Jalen Hood-Schifino.  Maybe he will be as amazing as some say.  He'll start, make the all freshman team, and get Big Ten or even national honors.

I'd like to see him play a dozen college games first.  Until then, it's just hope and wishful thinking.  He doesn't even know his way around campus yet. 

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2 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

Good post.

I feel the same about Jalen Hood-Schifino.  Maybe he will be as amazing as some say.  He'll start, make the all freshman team, and get Big Ten or even national honors.

I'd like to see him play a dozen college games first.  Until then, it's just hope and wishful thinking.  He doesn't even know his way around campus yet. 

I think this is a fair post, and I’m certainly one that does expect JHS to be a starter and be one of our four or five best players.

The biggest differences to me in JHS and JG are 1) I’ve seen JG has a ways to go as a college player to be a top 5 player on a high level team 2) there’s a much bigger opportunity for minutes in front of JHS just based on what’s returning than their is for JG and 3) the likelihood that a 5 star guard comes in and contributes when he’s in a position to get big minutes is relatively high, the likelihood that a guy double his minutes from the previous year when the guys he was playing behind are still there and a 5 star freshman comes in seems low. And that’s not even factoring in Banks who could be an unfairly forgotten guy in all of this  

But again, you’re right, we are putting expectations on JHS and he hasn’t proven anything yet. 

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50 minutes ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

Like Woodson had to have a meeting with him to convince him to stay. His dad loved Matta and thought Trey would be more a center piece at Butler, rather than a solid role player here at IU. 

That's very reasonable. 

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3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

That's very reasonable. 

Nope. That’s another parent problem. Parents always know better than the head coaches. Even though Trey’s dad is a coach, he can’t be objective about his son. 
If dad’s agenda becomes a locker room issue, then by all means, it’s time to reevaluate. Until then, dad should let CMW and staff coach up Trey to the best of his abilities 

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2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Nope. That’s another parent problem. Parents always know better than the head coaches. Even though Trey’s dad is a coach, he can’t be objective about his son. 
If dad’s agenda becomes a locker room issue, then by all means, it’s time to reevaluate. Until then, dad should let CMW and staff coach up Trey to the best of his abilities 

No no. Questioning is reasonable. Designing a role is real. There's way to handle this stuff in an adult manner. 

From what I know... I doubt Mark Galloway would allow himself to be a bafoon towards CMW. Too much respect for everyone. 

Maybe I'm wrong. I'll choose to see it as all parties involved needed to talk, see where we all stand... and lets roll. 

If it happened to begin with. Lets be clear. This is ULTRA off season stuff though lol 

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37 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

The biggest differences to me in JHS and JG are . . .

As I wrote, I was thinking more of JHS and Tamar Bates.  Both 6'5".  Ranked almost the same out of high school (#26 and #30).

The early buzz on Tamar was terrific. 

He finished with 4 ppg, 34% shooting, and a baby. 🍼👶

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46 minutes ago, btownqb said:

No no. Questioning is reasonable. Designing a role is real. There's way to handle this stuff in an adult manner. 

From what I know... I doubt Mark Galloway would allow himself to be a bafoon towards CMW. Too much respect for everyone. 

Maybe I'm wrong. I'll choose to see it as all parties involved needed to talk, see where we all stand... and lets roll. 

If it happened to begin with. Lets be clear. This is ULTRA off season stuff though lol 

Not a fan of dads getting involved. Not a fan of, “ my son needs to be a centerpiece.” Goes against team first. I like TG a lot and hope this is a bunch of nothing. But anytime there is talk of a parent meddling, it raises a red flag for me 

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59 minutes ago, btownqb said:

No no. Questioning is reasonable. Designing a role is real. There's way to handle this stuff in an adult manner. 

From what I know... I doubt Mark Galloway would allow himself to be a bafoon towards CMW. Too much respect for everyone. 

Maybe I'm wrong. I'll choose to see it as all parties involved needed to talk, see where we all stand... and lets roll. 

If it happened to begin with. Lets be clear. This is ULTRA off season stuff though lol 

Yes and not to mention.. Trey isn’t going anywhere. He is staying, but this took this place in the early early off-season after Matta announced he was leaving for Butler. 

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11 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Not a fan of dads getting involved. Not a fan of, “ my son needs to be a centerpiece.” Goes against team first. I like TG a lot and hope this is a bunch of nothing. But anytime there is talk of a parent meddling, it raises a red flag for me 

I can only speculate that’s the reason why his dad wanted him to go there because I do believe he would be more a center piece in a smaller program like Butler. However, he’s not going anywhere but this did happen. 

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1 hour ago, Madison22 said:

As I wrote, I was thinking more of JHS and Tamar Bates.  Both 6'5".  Ranked almost the same out of high school (#26 and #30).

The early buzz on Tamar was terrific. 

He finished with 4 ppg, 34% shooting, and a baby. 🍼👶

I don’t understand the last dig at Tamar, but to each their own.

JHS is ranked higher in a better class and has 30 lbs on Tamar. JHS is ranked ahead of guys like Blackmon and Yogi, where as Bates was about where Hollowell was. I have no idea what JHS actually will do next year, but it’s not fair at all to just say “Tamar bad so we can’t ever count on a freshman” when every freshman that was actually in JHS’s range has started and produced their freshman year at Indiana.

 


 

 

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51 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don’t understand the last dig at Tamar, but to each their own.

JHS is ranked higher in a better class and has 30 lbs on Tamar. JHS is ranked ahead of guys like Blackmon and Yogi, where as Bates was about where Hollowell was. I have no idea what JHS actually will do next year, but it’s not fair at all to just say “Tamar bad so we can’t ever count on a freshman” when every freshman that was actually in JHS’s range has started and produced their freshman year at Indiana.

 


 

 

I honestly don't think JHS is going to start.  He will get minutes as the backup PG but he will need to learn to defend at the college level before he sees alot of time.  Woodson won't care if he is a5* or not.  He will play the players who can defend.

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6 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I honestly don't think JHS is going to start.  He will get minutes as the backup PG but he will need to learn to defend at the college level before he sees alot of time.  Woodson won't care if he is a5* or not.  He will play the players who can defend.

Who do you think our starters are?

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Jalen Hood-Schifino, true, has not yet arrived on campus, but he was the primary ball-handler for the HS National Champion.  He is coming in similarly ranked to Bates, but his build is already college-ready whereas Bates was “a little light in the butt” (Woodson).

Hood-Schifino also has another advantage coming in as a frosh over some in the past: his game is steady, solid and others centered (is very content distributing, not needing to make the highlight play).

The schedule and level of competition JHS played was against mostly D1 committed players, not typical HS players.  
 

And the elephant in the room: 5-star players want to play in year one.  If there is to be a wait your turn, earn it approach, regardless of how ready a player is (Bates showed flashes but was not quite ready last season), it may be tougher to get a commitment from such players down the road.  

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17 hours ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

There is a rumor floating around that Galloway was considering transferring to Butler. Supposedly loved Matta, but decided to stay in Bloomington. 

IU’s interest in Dexter Dennis makes sense in this context 

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2 hours ago, Fundamentals said:

Jalen Hood-Schifino, true, has not yet arrived on campus, but he was the primary ball-handler for the HS National Champion.  He is coming in similarly ranked to Bates, but his build is already college-ready whereas Bates was “a little light in the butt” (Woodson).

Hood-Schifino also has another advantage coming in as a frosh over some in the past: his game is steady, solid and others centered (is very content distributing, not needing to make the highlight play).

The schedule and level of competition JHS played was against mostly D1 committed players, not typical HS players.  
 

And the elephant in the room: 5-star players want to play in year one.  If there is to be a wait your turn, earn it approach, regardless of how ready a player is (Bates showed flashes but was not quite ready last season), it may be tougher to get a commitment from such players down the road.  

Ahhh.  The "butt factor".

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So if the starting line-up is:  X, JHS, Kopp, TJD, and RT or whatever other line-up you favor is it better, worse, or about the same as the line-up from the past season and why.  Don't want to hear about the bench.

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8 minutes ago, slojoe said:

So if the starting line-up is:  X, JHS, Kopp, TJD, and RT or whatever other line-up you favor is it better, worse, or about the same as the line-up from the past season and why.  Don't want to hear about the bench.

Better. All the returning players will get better. I’m also assuming that while JHS may not be better at shooting than Stewart, he may be better in all other aspects fo the game. I’ll predict that the ball will be in JHS’s hands more than twice as much as it was in Parker’s. And because Parker was more of a stagnant catch and shoot guy, this means more movement, more creation, more passing. 

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1 hour ago, slojoe said:

So if the starting line-up is:  X, JHS, Kopp, TJD, and RT or whatever other line-up you favor is it better, worse, or about the same as the line-up from the past season and why.  Don't want to hear about the bench.

this is the way i keep looking at it - if we have Kopp and say, Galloway starting it's hard for me to see a big difference in the team from last year.  if Bates and JHS are good enough to start, that means Bates has progressed and JHS is the real deal and they have unseated Kopp even though he has seniority.  that would give us 3 guards on the floor that can get their own shot, drive, and shoot the 3 at least pretty well.  huge difference there.  

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I keep seeing people saying we shouldn't expect a ton from JHS and comparing his production to Bates because they were ranked similarly. 

Maybe it's semantics, but JHS is ranked 22nd in the composite rankings. That's much more comparable to guys like Yogi, JBJ, and Thomas Bryant (obviously different position) who all produced immediately. 

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20 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I keep seeing people saying we shouldn't expect a ton from JHS and comparing his production to Bates because they were ranked similarly. 

Maybe it's semantics, but JHS is ranked 22nd in the composite rankings. That's much more comparable to guys like Yogi, JBJ, and Thomas Bryant (obviously different position) who all produced immediately. 

That's where I'm at. I believe JHS is starting from Day 1 for a couple reasons. First...I just think he's our best option to change the dynamic of the team opposite of Xavier. Secondly...and I'm not saying CMW would do this but showing highly ranked recruits they play right away isn't a bad thing. He'll get his minutes right away whether he continues to get those starter minutes is up to him.

I'm sure people will ask about Malik (ranking, starting,etc) and to me he's just a tad different. He's been used to waiting his turn his entire high school career....while knowing he's getting better by playing against better bigs. In our case that's TJD. Malik will get his minutes too....he's got a built in 17-18 mpg a game just in backing up both Race and Trayce....and that's before TJD gets called for 2 fouls in first 4 minutes in any given game.

Team is deep, getting more and more talented....but I'll say what I said yesterday. I just have a hard time believing everyone will return after the summer. It's just not what college hoops is like anymore.

 

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9 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Who do you think our starters are?

Race, Trace, X, Kopp and Either Bates/Galloway

Coach Woodson played/started upper classmen all year unless he was forced to change the starting line-up.  I don't see him changing his old school way of thinking in this. He will start his upper classman and sub as needed from there.  JHS could very well get alot of minutes but i don't see him starting. He is a freshmen, is not a huge volume scorer (Averaged 11pts) and although is has a big body, that doesn't make him college level body ready.  He is a PG and we have out starting PG. 

Just my thoughts.  I hope i am wrong and he is a freaking beast and wins freshman of the year and all B1G honors and we in a B1G title and a NC to boot. 😁

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8 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

That's where I'm at. I believe JHS is starting from Day 1 for a couple reasons. First...I just think he's our best option to change the dynamic of the team opposite of Xavier. Secondly...and I'm not saying CMW would do this but showing highly ranked recruits they play right away isn't a bad thing. He'll get his minutes right away whether he continues to get those starter minutes is up to him.

I'm sure people will ask about Malik (ranking, starting,etc) and to me he's just a tad different. He's been used to waiting his turn his entire high school career....while knowing he's getting better by playing against better bigs. In our case that's TJD. Malik will get his minutes too....he's got a built in 17-18 mpg a game just in backing up both Race and Trayce....and that's before TJD gets called for 2 fouls in first 4 minutes in any given game.

Team is deep, getting more and more talented....but I'll say what I said yesterday. I just have a hard time believing everyone will return after the summer. It's just not what college hoops is like anymore.

 

I'm confused by this. It seems our roster is more then set. I don't really see anyone transferring now, they wouldn't even get immediate eligibility, plus.... there is no min crunch for our Top 9. 

Sorry, but JG future is at the 4. He needs to be playing 14-16 mpg and developing, he is the only one I could see transferring... and he has already said he is back. He needs to watch Grant Williams. 

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39 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I keep seeing people saying we shouldn't expect a ton from JHS and comparing his production to Bates because they were ranked similarly. 

Maybe it's semantics, but JHS is ranked 22nd in the composite rankings. That's much more comparable to guys like Yogi, JBJ, and Thomas Bryant (obviously different position) who all produced immediately. 

He doesn't need to start.  Coach Woodson now has enough talent on the bench to run to squads.  He can start whomever he wants and sub 3-5 players across all positions now.  And as mych as everyone is on JHS he only averaged like 11 points a game.  He is not a volume scorer, although he can put some up, and is not a big 3 point shooter.  He is a floor leader.  And i don't know how his defense is.  And from what i know of last year, if you can't play college level defense, you won't see the floor.  We will see.

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