Grad Transfers?

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

2 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Dang it!! Really wanted him. Whys it not gonna happen if you don't mind sharing??

Mooney told Rabjohns directly that he was going to call Archie and let him know he was going to look elsewhere. Rabjohns thinks it's really a mutual decision. Doesn't think Mooney was promised the role/playing time he was looking for.

[FW_Hoosier]

46 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Mooney told Rabjohns directly that he was going to call Archie and let him know he was going to look elsewhere. Rabjohns thinks it's really a mutual decision. Doesn't think Mooney was promised the role/playing time he was looking for.

Welp, seems like Archie has put all his eggs in Romeo’s basket.  Hope that works out...

[Hoosierdave]

7 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Welp, seems like Archie has put all his eggs in Romeo’s basket.  Hope that works out...

I'm not too worried about it. Seems like you hear about a new transfer available every day. Who knows, after more FBI stuff comes out we may end up having All-American players re-opening their recruitments too. 

[FW_Hoosier]

11 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said:

I'm not too worried about it. Seems like you hear about a new transfer available every day. Who knows, after more FBI stuff comes out we may end up having All-American players re-opening their recruitments too. 

I guess, I won’t pretend to know every transfer out there.  Seems like Taylor and Mooney were the best options up to this point though.

[IU Scott]

52 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Welp, seems like Archie has put all his eggs in Romeo’s basket.  Hope that works out...

Archie has said he is not against not using all of his scholarships if the players don't fit his system.  He is not going to just take a player to fill out the roster if he can't help the team.

[FW_Hoosier]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Archie has said he is not against not using all of his scholarships if the players don't fit his system.  He is not going to just take a player to fill out the roster if he can't help the team.

Ok... That doesn’t have anything to do with what we’re discussing.

[btownqb]

Thinking it's Romeo and McRoberts for the last two scholarships. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

Ok... That doesn’t have anything to do with what we’re discussing.

I am just saying that Archie might have thought that Mooney or Taylor did not fit into his system and told them they were moving on.

[FW_Hoosier]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I am just saying that Archie might have thought that Mooney or Taylor did not fit into his system and told them they were moving on.

I doubt that, especially in regards to Taylor.  If he doesn’t get Romeo, he is most definitely going to be looking to add a grad transfer guard.  

[BGleas]

The only thing that surprises me, even with Langford should he pick IU, is I think the roster could still use another shooter. As someone mentioned, there could be more transfers open up but you'd think adding another shooter/scorer couldn't hurt. 

The flip-side is that not adding another player could mean that Archie is expecting really big leaps from guys like Green and Smith, and expecting Hunter and maybe Phinisee to be ready to roll (by ready to roll I simply mean contribute fairly consistently) from day 1. 

[IUCrazy2]

32 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The only thing that surprises me, even with Langford should he pick IU, is I think the roster could still use another shooter. As someone mentioned, there could be more transfers open up but you'd think adding another shooter/scorer couldn't hurt. 

The flip-side is that not adding another player could mean that Archie is expecting really big leaps from guys like Green and Smith, and expecting Hunter and maybe Phinisee to be ready to roll (by ready to roll I simply mean contribute fairly consistently) from day 1. 

I would think it would be hard to add another 2 guard who only has one year of eligibility left.  With Taylor and Mooney, they are looking to come and contribute.  If Langford comes to IU he is going to take 32+ minutes at the 2.  Morgan should take the same at the 4.  Frankly, if we have a scholarship and are looking to add one player, I want the big guy from Old Dominion (think that was school).  Put him and Davis at the 5 and you are not relying on Forrester and Moore to be Davis' back up if/when he is in foul trouble.

Green, Phinisee, and Durham are going to be fighting for the PG role and could also spell Langford a few minutes at the SG and we have a bunch of guys that could fill that 3 role or backup to Morgan.  If Romeo comes, the 5 is where I think we are lacking.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I would think it would be hard to add another 2 guard who only has one year of eligibility left.  With Taylor and Mooney, they are looking to come and contribute.  If Langford comes to IU he is going to take 32+ minutes at the 2.  Morgan should take the same at the 4.  Frankly, if we have a scholarship and are looking to add one player, I want the big guy from Old Dominion (think that was school).  Put him and Davis at the 5 and you are not relying on Forrester and Moore to be Davis' back up if/when he is in foul trouble.

Green, Phinisee, and Durham are going to be fighting for the PG role and could also spell Langford a few minutes at the SG and we have a bunch of guys that could fill that 3 role or backup to Morgan.  If Romeo comes, the 5 is where I think we are lacking.

We just kind of disagree on the roster makeup. I think we're fine on the interior, though I think Morgan is the 5 not the 4 which shapes why I think we need another wing scorer. With Morgan at the 5 you then have Race, Davis and whoever steps up between Forrester/Moore.  I really think Taylor would have been perfect alongside Langford. 

A lineup of:

Green

Langford

Taylor

Smith

Morgan

is a super versatile lineup with athletic scorers at every position, and guys with length and athleticism on defense to defend pick and rolls, hedge, switch, etc. I'm in the camp that Davis can contribute next year when we play specific teams with size, but that overall (and even more now with the injury) he's a terrible fit for Archie's system defensively. Morgan will do great wherever he play, but I think his best spot is the 5, as it's where he creates the most mismatches offensively, and I think the same goes for Smith as far as being a 4 as opposed to a 3. 

[5 championships]

16 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We just kind of disagree on the roster makeup. I think we're fine on the interior, though I think Morgan is the 5 not the 4 which shapes why I think we need another wing scorer. With Morgan at the 5 you then have Race, Davis and whoever steps up between Forrester/Moore.  I really think Taylor would have been perfect alongside Langford. 

A lineup of:

Green

Langford

Taylor

Smith

Morgan

is a super versatile lineup with athletic scorers at every position, and guys with length and athleticism on defense to defend pick and rolls, hedge, switch, etc. I'm in the camp that Davis can contribute next year when we play specific teams with size, but that overall (and even more now with the injury) he's a terrible fit for Archie's system defensively. Morgan will do great wherever he play, but I think his best spot is the 5, as it's where he creates the most mismatches offensively, and I think the same goes for Smith as far as being a 4 as opposed to a 3. 

I agree 100 percent. I just don't think davis fits Archie's style good enough to play consistently. Can be really effective given the right matchup though so it will be interesting to see how Archie manages it. 

Jake Foorester, Juwan Morgan, and Trayce  Jackson Davis are perfect fits for Archie. Versitale and athletic big's. Deron not so much. With all the hedging and help side Deron is always just a step slow even prior to injury. And he can only guard one position so switching is pretty well out the equation. We got so much better defensively when he wasn't on the floor. 

I really hope he proves me wrong tho because he can be tough to handle defensively with his great footwork in the low post and passing ability. 

[5 championships]

Just look at Villanova squad. Straight up got after you from all 5 positions. Tough smart scrappy guards an NBA wing and big's that can step out and hit the three. Then defensively they can scheme against you so many ways with the ability of having guys that can guard multiple positions, switch etc.. 

The days of the old traditional bigs are all but over. The game has changed. You can't have one demimsional guys like Deron and win a championship. You play to many different styles in the tourney which make versitale big guys just that much more important to be able to matchup and adjust. Ok rant over. 

Good thing is Archie recruits those guys!!

[BoomBaby]

58 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I would think it would be hard to add another 2 guard who only has one year of eligibility left.  With Taylor and Mooney, they are looking to come and contribute.  If Langford comes to IU he is going to take 32+ minutes at the 2.  Morgan should take the same at the 4.  Frankly, if we have a scholarship and are looking to add one player, I want the big guy from Old Dominion (think that was school).  Put him and Davis at the 5 and you are not relying on Forrester and Moore to be Davis' back up if/when he is in foul trouble.

Green, Phinisee, and Durham are going to be fighting for the PG role and could also spell Langford a few minutes at the SG and we have a bunch of guys that could fill that 3 role or backup to Morgan.  If Romeo comes, the 5 is where I think we are lacking.

The five spot is what I'm most nervous about as well, assuming a Langford commitment.  I don't think we can be very confident that Davis will contribute much, if at all, next year, given the nature of his injury.  There was a review in the medical literature last year of outcomes after Achilles tendon ruptures in professional athletes, and fully 30% did not return to play at all.  The other 70%, on average, played both less and less well at one year post-injury than they did pre-injury, with the pro basketball players being particularly impaired compared to the other pro athletes.  And remember that a year post-injury would be well into the season.  A redshirt year for him wouldn't surprise me.  Of course, there are those who recover better and faster than most, and hopefully Davis will be one of those, but I think we can be sure that he won't be able to work on his defensive shortcomings during the offseason.  Unfortunately, Tre Porter from ODU, to whom you referred, has visited Maryland and his mother reportedly lives in Annapolis, so things may not look good there.

[KoB2011]

3 minutes ago, BoomBaby said:

The five spot is what I'm most nervous about as well, assuming a Langford commitment.  I don't think we can be very confident that Davis will contribute much, if at all, next year, given the nature of his injury.  There was a review in the medical literature last year of outcomes after Achilles tendon ruptures in professional athletes, and fully 30% did not return to play at all.  The other 70%, on average, played both less and less well at one year post-injury than they did pre-injury, with the pro basketball players being particularly impaired compared to the other pro athletes.  And remember that a year post-injury would be well into the season.  A redshirt year for him wouldn't surprise me.  Of course, there are those who recover better and faster than most, and hopefully Davis will be one of those, but I think we can be sure that he won't be able to work on his defensive shortcomings during the offseason.  Unfortunately, Tre Porter from ODU, to whom you referred, has visited Maryland and his mother reportedly lives in Annapolis, so things may not look good there.

We have an All-Conference 5 man in Juwan Morgan and a stud young 4 man who came on really strong the second half of the season. 

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

We have an All-Conference 5 man in Juwan Morgan and a stud young 4 man who came on really strong the second half of the season. 

Yeah, I just prefer to move Juwan to the 4.  I think asking a 6'7" kid to handle guys that are 3" taller than him on a regular basis wears them down over the year.  Also, I think Juwan's skill set makes him better suited to be a stretch 4.

I just think you are going to be hard pressed to get another 2G in here for one year if we land Romeo.  If you only have one year left you generally are not going to a school who is bringing in a OAD level talent at your same position.  In the idea of only having Romeo for a year, I go for the big because I want to win now.

[Crimson324]

I think it’s just unfair to ask Morgan to play the 5 spot. He won’t play the 5 in the NBA. So If he is going to showcase what he’s got for the League he really needs to play as a stretch 4. I think that’s where he wants to play anyways. I also think playing out of position all season is why he really ran out of gas at the end of the season. That AND playing almost 40 minutes every game. But getting knocked around by B1G big men all season didn’t help. 

[Shooter]

Archie is going to play 3 guards and 2 bigs at a time (using the term "guards" loosely as he sees wings like McRoberts or Hunter as guards).

We have two obvious starters as bigs already - Morgan and Smith. Behind them is Davis, a very talented kid and former starter. I expect those three to soak up most of the post minutes. Really we just need a fourth big for the rotation - and you'd expect one of Thompson, Moore, or Forrester to fill that slot.

Meanwhile our best returning guard is either Green or McRoberts. That does not inspire a ton of confidence. After that it's Al Durham and the true freshman. Is there a single guard on our current roster you can look at and feel great about them playing 25-30 MPG next year? Romeo would be one, but we need three of them.

Right now we have a ton riding on Green turning the corner, and/or guys like Phinisee and Hunter being ready from day one. I'd love to have a grad transfer guard in the mix. There is room next to Romeo in the lineup, not behind him.

[Indykev]

 

[Astrosws20]

I'd love to see us get some kind of guard; ideally a combo guard as a grad transfer. A one year player would be fine, but if we could get a newcomer who can play beyond that it'd be even better. If Romeo leaves after one year we'll be in the same boat. I know that's a long shot, but it's true. Our strength is that we have a lot of players who can play the 3 and 4.

Davis can potentially play at the 5 and you guys are right that he's not a perfect fit for Archie, but his talent can overcome that if he's healthy. Having said that, I think that you look at Davis as a bonus. You plan as if Davis isn't going to be there in the event that he doesn't recover well or gets injured again. Losing Davis was the first of many things that went wrong last year, but we managed on the interior. We didn't excel at it, but we did well enough against average competition. Michigan St embarrassed us with their size, but most center grad transfers are likely to be a bit one dimensional like Davis so that won't help us a whole lot there. We need to change the way that they play us and that's by spreading the floor.

The biggest problem we had last year was shooting. Nobody could shoot the ball. Rob got hot in a few games, but we shined when Juwan and Justin took charge and drove to the hole or posted a man up. We need shooters more than anything. Let's play the dangerous game of saying Romeo picks us. Yay! Our shooting whoas are over, right? Wrong. We need more shooters than just one man. Maybe Devonte improves, but we still need more than that. Say Romeo plays 32 minutes per game. That's 8 minutes without a legitimate shooter on the floor. We need someone who can fire from outside and spread the floor. Devonte can't shoulder the load of that 8 minutes and you don't want your PG to have to. Plus, Devonte is as streaky as a player can be. There'll be enough minutes for a good SG or CG if they come on board.

All of the UK and Duke teams who get the one and done players have multiple players who got their fill and their minutes. Heck they went there to play with good players. Duke just last year had Duval and Trent who are both SGs come in and play with Grayson Allen who's a SG and was forced over to PG. All players got their minutes and all are headed for the NBA this year. If we can add another shooter to help spread the floor it will open things up for Romeo, Juwan and others and take pressure off of any other deficiencies.

We need to add depth behind Romeo and our other guards because that's something that's seriously lacking. Our forward depth is substantial.

[Astrosws20]

Here's where I stand on the lineup as constructed assuming Romeo is on board. Maybe Hunter will be in front of Race or Davis will slide in and bump Juwan to the 4 spot. There's a lot of flexibility at the 1, 3 and 4 spots. Our 5 is kind of a second PF whoever is in there. I don't like Juwan at the 5, but I think it's the best we have. Either way, that's a very athletic group.

D Green -> A Durham -> R Phinisee

R Langford -> J McRoberts -> V Blackmon

J Smith -> D Anderson

R Thompson -> J Hunter -> J Forrester

J Morgan -> D Davis -> C Moore

 

Here's my lineup if we can land a grad transfer guard. The grad transfer guard can easily slide into the 2 spot if Romeo takes a breather or gets in foul trouble. We then have an even deeper front court. Personally I would prefer this. I like 3 guard lineups. I want more guys who can handle the ball and shoot in this situation.

D Green -> A Durham -> R Phinisee

R Langford -> J McRoberts -> V Blackmon

Grad Transfer Guard -> D Anderson

J Smith -> R Thompson -> J Hunter -> J Forrester

J Morgan -> D Davis -> C Moore

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, Astrosws20 said:

Here's where I stand on the lineup as constructed assuming Romeo is on board. Maybe Hunter will be in front of Race or Davis will slide in and bump Juwan to the 4 spot. There's a lot of flexibility at the 1, 3 and 4 spots. Our 5 is kind of a second PF whoever is in there. I don't like Juwan at the 5, but I think it's the best we have. Either way, that's a very athletic group.

D Green -> A Durham -> R Phinisee

R Langford -> J McRoberts -> V Blackmon

J Smith -> D Anderson

R Thompson -> J Hunter -> J Forrester

J Morgan -> D Davis -> C Moore

 

Here's my lineup if we can land a grad transfer guard. The grad transfer guard can easily slide into the 2 spot if Romeo takes a breather or gets in foul trouble. We then have an even deeper front court. Personally I would prefer this. I like 3 guard lineups. I want more guys who can handle the ball and shoot in this situation.

D Green -> A Durham -> R Phinisee

R Langford -> J McRoberts -> V Blackmon

Grad Transfer Guard -> D Anderson

J Smith -> R Thompson -> J Hunter -> J Forrester

J Morgan -> D Davis -> C Moore

What has Smith shown for you to be comfortable with him at the 3? Anderson is not going to be the second guy off the bench at the 3 position, I am pretty confident in that... he simply isn't ready. 

Green>Phinesee

Romeo> Durham

McRoberts>Hunter

Smith>Thompson

Juwan>Davis>Forrester 

[Astrosws20]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

What has Smith shown for you to be comfortable with him at the 3? Anderson is not going to be the second guy off the bench at the 3 position, I am pretty confident in that... he simply isn't ready. 

Green>Phinesee

Romeo> Durham

McRoberts>Hunter

Smith>Thompson

Juwan>Davis>Forrester 

I simply put Anderson there because he's a SF and everyone else is PF. I haven't seen him play. All I'm going by is scouting reports and I'm not going to eliminate him from the roster without having seen him play. I put the whole roster on there. Obviously Blackmon and others won't play.

I'm not comfortable with Smith at the 3, but he has some of the best athleticism and untapped potential on the team to be able to expand his game.

Like I mentioned above, we need shooters who can stretch the floor. I don't see Hunter as a SF and if Durham is to backup Romeo at SG we'll be in trouble because Al simply can't shoot. If Josh, Al, Devonte and Phinisee aren't spending all day everyday working on their shots then we're in trouble without a grad transfer guard.

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, Astrosws20 said:

I simply put Anderson there because he's a SF and everyone else is PF. I haven't seen him play. All I'm going by is scouting reports and I'm not going to eliminate him from the roster without having seen him play. I put the whole roster on there. Obviously Blackmon and others won't play.

I'm not comfortable with Smith at the 3, but he has some of the best athleticism and untapped potential on the team to be able to expand his game.

Like I mentioned above, we need shooters who can stretch the floor. I don't see Hunter as a SF and if Durham is to backup Romeo at SG we'll be in trouble because Al simply can't shoot. If Josh, Al, Devonte and Phinisee aren't spending all day everyday working on their shots then we're in trouble without a grad transfer guard.

You say Smith has untapped potential... wouldn't Durham be able to improve his shooting? Hunter can play the 3. Understood on the Anderson thing.