NIL, the AD, and where does the line get drawn (Hoosier Hysterics)

[Maedhros]

42 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I can’t believe I actually read that, which was just a hit piece from a dude with 2k twitter followers. Ok, we get it, the author of the article doesn’t like HH. He writes an opinion piece and thinks he deserves a cookie. Bravo. Some people like ‘immature’ humor. Some don’t. Conan O’Brien made a career out of masturbating bears and dog puppets who insult people on the street. 

The fact is, this dude can’t draw a line from the HH guys to a recruit not choosing us. Trying to make a point with that Jeremy Fears video was laughable. You can however (as he even points out) point to all the good HH has done/is doing for IU athletics. If they are ‘bothering’ or ‘offending’ so many people then why do players, former players, coaches continue to go on their show multiple times? And don’t say it’s because they wield power with NIL - they made these relationships before NIL was even a thing. 

The mark of a poor opinion piece is when the author preemptively predicts objections to their article and still can’t adequately defend those objections. Way to draw a line in the sand, brah. So I gotta ask, what’s the point?

 

The point is to share his opinion with others, which is the same reason we're all here participating on this message board. Do you write each post thinking you deserve a cookie? 2K followers is a lot more than I have on Twitter, and I'd bet more than you have too, so that's a weird thing to point out.

No, I hadn't heard of this author before this article, and I certainly hadn't visited his blog. But I read the article before it was ever posted here because it had been picked up and shared by people I do follow, people who agree with what he has to say. Check the replies and quote tweets, and you'll see many examples. The author is not alone in his position, nor expressing some hot take. He's documenting what what many in the fanbase feel about these guys, and why.

I don't think the HH guys are the reason why Dawson Garcia or Jeremy Fears chose not to attend IU. But any honest assessment would agree their behavior didn't help. So why defend an unnecessary self-inflicted wound? It's great the good they've done for the program, but this doesn't need to be some utilitarian dilemma. We should be able to find people to promote the program who don't also motorboat public art. Like, it's strange that this is something we even have to ask of grown men.

I stopped listening to the HH podcast apart from their behavior on Twitter. The last straw for me came during the 2020 season, when they went in on the players - specifically the Crean recruits - rather than the coach, after some disappointing losses. They thought we'd be so much better with those players gone... in what turned out to be Archie's best season. Their fanboyish approach of "Bob Knight good, everything else bad, except the current thing which we support" just isn't for me. (I'm guessing they've fully turned on Archie, and are now all in on Mike Woodson). If that's all it was, sure, no problem. It's no worse than what I read on message boards just like this one, and I'd agree with the defenses of them offered in this thread. But it's the creepy and  actions documented in the article that has me convinced I don't want these two Matthew Leskos representing the program. I want more articles like this one, voicing those same concerns and eventually pressuring the administration to demand better of those with whom they associate.

[MoyeCowbell]

It's not my place to tell others what to think of HH or question their own "cringey-ness" of them...

I will say that having a little bit of goofiness and levity in the world, given all the BS that occurs daily, is not a bad thing.

We all want to find joy in what INDIANA brings us, and if HH, you, or me can do it in a way that makes us happy -- regardless of age -- I think that's ok.

[tdhoosier]

50 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

The point is to share his opinion with others, which is the same reason we're all here participating on this message board. Do you write each post thinking you deserve a cookie? 2K followers is a lot more than I have on Twitter, and I'd bet more than you have too, so that's a weird thing to point out.

It's quite different and i always deserve cookies. We are just engaging in conversation; he has a blog and is promoting it on twitter with a sensational picture and headline. And then he uses twitter replies to back up his opinions ("look, these people that I don't even know agree with me"). He's making HH out to be a way bigger problem than they really are. It's like writing an article with the headline: "Our Science Education Curriculums Are Failing Us" and then backing up that opinion solely with alarming tweets plucked from Flat Earther accounts. Whether it's a casual fan with a blog or a journalist from a major media network - that approach (not his opinion) is lazy and annoys me. 

That said, everybody is welcome to cringe away. I 100% understand and respect why some may not like their humor, but it at least it comes from a place of good intention. 

[mrflynn03]

I doubt many people outside the IU fan base even know who these guys are. Many IU fans probably don't either. I'm sure every major university has its own goofballs.

[IUFLA]

11 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I doubt many people outside the IU fan base even know who these guys are. Many IU fans probably don't either. I'm sure every major university has its own goofballs.

The KU "Late Night at the Phog"  event featuring a Snoop Dogg concert replete with pole dancers a couple of years ago comes to mind... 

[Seeking6]

2 diehard IU fans are organizing events, raising NIL $ for players....and bringing more attention, followers,etc...to our players. Wake me up when we get to the bad part here gang. 

[tdhoosier]

In the other corner….

 

[Seeking6]

Guess I'll throw this in there. Glad to see IU make sure it has legal involved with the kids and their NIL deals.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/indiana-universities-offering-student-athletes-legal-guidance-for-nil-deals/

[Madison22]

5 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Guess I'll throw this in there. Glad to see IU make sure it has legal involved with the kids and their NIL deals.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/indiana-universities-offering-student-athletes-legal-guidance-for-nil-deals/

From the article:

"There have been calls for federal legislation surrounding endorsement deals for student-athletes."

Ha.  Those calls are from upset universities and coaches.  They want "guardrails" supposedly for the protection of the students.

No, they want to claw back some of the power, control and money they lost.

[IUFLA]

43 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

From the article:

"There have been calls for federal legislation surrounding endorsement deals for student-athletes."

Ha.  Those calls are from upset universities and coaches.  They want "guardrails" supposedly for the protection of the students.

No, they want to claw back some of the power, control and money they lost.

I agree to a point, but if you let the states regulate it, states like California will enact more stupid laws that other states will have to follow to be competitive, like SB 1401. 

It stalled in their senate, but if the feds don't act soon, it'll eventually pass... 

[Purdue7]

I asked this question to a few people.

Would you feel good about donating money to an NIL or Riley Childrens Hospital?

 

I’m glad the kids are getting paid but the cesspool of D1 football & basketball got better or worse?

[cthomas]

1 hour ago, Purdue7 said:

I asked this question to a few people.

Would you feel good about donating money to an NIL or Riley Childrens Hospital?

 

I’m glad the kids are getting paid but the cesspool of D1 football & basketball got better or worse?

How money gets allocated is always going to be questioned depending on priorities. Mine have always been need based. But everyone has the right to prioritize according to what matters most to them. Personally, I think the cesspool has gotten worse.

[loviubb]

33 minutes ago, cthomas said:

How money gets allocated is always going to be questioned depending on priorities. Mine have always been need based. But everyone has the right to prioritize according to what matters most to them. Personally, I think the cesspool has gotten worse.

We as tax payers give money every year!  I still don't like the NEW NORM. Kids got FREE ED. Love  ATHLETICS BUT NOT TOO MUCH LONGER!

[BobSaccamanno]

13 hours ago, Purdue7 said:

I asked this question to a few people.

Would you feel good about donating money to an NIL or Riley Childrens Hospital?

 

I’m glad the kids are getting paid but the cesspool of D1 football & basketball got better or worse?

I hear you but, taking your logic, sports programs themselves have always taken in obscene amounts of money from varsity clubs etc.  That money could also go to to cancer research or even the academic side instead of the latest athletics shrine.  There is an insane amount of money in college athletics.  At some level it’s market forces.  But the universities also benefit writ large.  As sports programs bring attention to the school, you get donations from alumni and applications from prospective students who bring $$ to the school coffers.  The money in sports is a form of marketing investment and enriches the school.  

Now, bringing it back to NIL, having all that money floating around and excluding the players has been unfair, if not immoral.  Letting them have access to money from outside sources is probably more charitable than some dufus alumnus paying Purdue basketball money to pay for a cushy film room with big poofy leather chairs.  

This is still somewhat of a distraction.  The NCAA is running a sleight of hand here.  “Hey look over here and don’t notice we still aren’t paying the players a dime while we get Big Bob’s Mattresses on Armpit Avenue in Lafayette to pay Caleb Furst.”  The NCAA is still truly and sincerely a corrupt, incompetent, and ineffectual organization.  As dirty of an entity in America as I can think of.   I’m all for nuking it.  I have no respect for it.  

The B1G got billions in the new TV deal.  None goes to players.  Billions, with a B.  That’s some strained math.  Think about that.  Watch the DB coach make seven figures now.  That’s not the best way to allocate the revenue.  Who’s got the real money to allocate: the schools with huge sums of money or Auntie Martha’s Cookie Nook on Dismal Drive in Lafayette paying Aidan O’Connell?  The NCAA is laughing all the way to the bank while they get everyone ginned up on NIL.

Now I don’t want to rub anyone the wrong way, but you may not pay a volleyball player the way you pay CJ Stroud.  Market value should be part of this IMO.   Match revenue to payouts.   The thing where we pay the backup volleyball player the same way we pay TJD would be insanity. That’s just not fair to TJD.   Use common sense and brush aside the legal activists by citing economic value and efficiency.  See Judge Posner.  

Edited September 18, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[BobSaccamanno]

The Hoosier Hysterics guys present a complicated issue. First of all, Avi wrote a good piece and a very sizable chunk of alumni totally agree with him.  If you disagree with him, he’s hardly flying solo and he has a valid opinion.  

The complexity is that I will say I have heard many of their podcasts and they typically do a very good job with their subjects.  There are a lot of other boring podcasts out there but these guys have a knack for eliciting some real life stories and not the usual sports platitudes.  If you can’t give them credit for that, I don’t know what to tell you.  In fact, even some of our older, curmudgeonly players have complimented them at the end for doing a good job.  That’s high praise.  Plus it is hard to have enough material. Let’s be honest, a two hour interview with the 11th man on the 1978 Hoosiers is hardly as interesting as Steve Alford.  Yet they find compelling material and, when they are on point, it’s interesting.

But I get the criticism outside of their work.  They insert themselves into the story.  It’s not necessary and unbecoming.  If I were them, I would knock it off.  First of all, I doubt anyone gives a crap about their personal stuff.  If I were Scott Dolson I would tell them to eliminate themselves from the story.  They can still do good work without making themselves part of it.  I’m sure they would say, “Bobby, you don’t understand.  I work in Hollywood.  I have studied the research. Audiences love it when the hosts talk about themselves.”   Ok, first of all, you guys are not David Letterman.  Second, professional hosts that know what they are doing are trained through painstaking experience and do it with restraint.  They know what works from years of honing performance skills.   Go spend a decade at the Comedy Store and see what bombs.  Making your friends laugh after drinks and being truly funny are two different things.  You guys go berserk because you aren’t trained the way Dave is or Howard is after six figure hours of on air time.  Full stop.  They are under the mistaken belief that because they work in Hollywood they know what they are doing.  They don’t.  The subjects and audiences tolerate their antics but any interest the interviews deliver are despite their shenanigans, not because of them IMO.   

Why not leave the asinine, self indulgent side out of it?  Because that’s what it is.  Self indulgence.  Focus your material on your subjects and the NIL.  Then everyone can be happy.  Whether you agree or not, and I like their actual work, Avi wrote a good article with fair points.  Maybe IU Management can talk with them.  (Please do!) Do the podcasts about the players, do the NIL’s, but knock it off with the self indulgence.  It’s not funny, nobody cares anyway, and it doesn’t reflect well on anybody including the school.  It’s just not needed and doesn’t work.  

Edited September 18, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[IUfaninIllinois]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:17 PM, Indykev said:

The one guy every time we sign a recruit he lights up a cigar and posts a youtube video. He cracks me up. Hell they got Coach Knight to come to the Bluebird of all places.

His dad actually owns a cigar shop in Clayton Missouri which is a municipality of st louis

[Seeking6]

I keep seeing online where groups of IU Football players are getting sponsored for meals,etc...at places in Bloomington. Does anyone know who is doing this or how we can get involved in sponsoring dinner for the line or whatever? 

[tdhoosier]

On 9/18/2022 at 7:38 AM, BobSaccamanno said:

The Hoosier Hysterics guys present a complicated issue. First of all, Avi wrote a good piece and a very sizable chunk of alumni totally agree with him.  If you disagree with him, he’s hardly flying solo and he has a valid opinion.  

The complexity is that I will say I have heard many of their podcasts and they typically do a very good job with their subjects.  There are a lot of other boring podcasts out there but these guys have a knack for eliciting some real life stories and not the usual sports platitudes.  If you can’t give them credit for that, I don’t know what to tell you.  In fact, even some of our older, curmudgeonly players have complimented them at the end for doing a good job.  That’s high praise.  Plus it is hard to have enough material. Let’s be honest, a two hour interview with the 11th man on the 1978 Hoosiers is hardly as interesting as Steve Alford.  Yet they find compelling material and, when they are on point, it’s interesting.

But I get the criticism outside of their work.  They insert themselves into the story.  It’s not necessary and unbecoming.  If I were them, I would knock it off.  First of all, I doubt anyone gives a crap about their personal stuff.  If I were Scott Dolson I would tell them to eliminate themselves from the story.  They can still do good work without making themselves part of it.  I’m sure they would say, “Bobby, you don’t understand.  I work in Hollywood.  I have studied the research. Audiences love it when the hosts talk about themselves.”   Ok, first of all, you guys are not David Letterman.  Second, professional hosts that know what they are doing are trained through painstaking experience and do it with restraint.  They know what works from years of honing performance skills.   Go spend a decade at the Comedy Store and see what bombs.  Making your friends laugh after drinks and being truly funny are two different things.  You guys go berserk because you aren’t trained the way Dave is or Howard is after six figure hours of on air time.  Full stop.  They are under the mistaken belief that because they work in Hollywood they know what they are doing.  They don’t.  The subjects and audiences tolerate their antics but any interest the interviews deliver are despite their shenanigans, not because of them IMO.   

Why not leave the asinine, self indulgent side out of it?  Because that’s what it is.  Self indulgence.  Focus your material on your subjects and the NIL.  Then everyone can be happy.  Whether you agree or not, and I like their actual work, Avi wrote a good article with fair points.  Maybe IU Management can talk with them.  (Please do!) Do the podcasts about the players, do the NIL’s, but knock it off with the self indulgence.  It’s not funny, nobody cares anyway, and it doesn’t reflect well on anybody including the school.  It’s just not needed and doesn’t work.  

I will just say that I listen to a lot of podcasts where hosts talk about themselves. I’m invested in some of these personal stories and others not so much. For the latter I exercise my right to the fast forward button to get to the meat (I use it occasionally on the HH podcasts). What makes them successful is also what makes them controversial. If they ride the line, they risk becoming bland and stale. And whether Eric is from Hollywood or Poughkeepsie, he’s the producer for Car Pool Karaoke and was the Senior Vice President for creative and development at the WWE. Who cares where he’s from, he has legit experience in this sort of thing….and he’s using that experience to help our program and the players. Not to mention, their unreciprocated promotion of Bloomington’s local restaurants and businesses. 

I think if their antics turn too many people off, and it has a negative effect on their podcast or their events, I’m sure they’re smart enough to adapt and change. If not, they’ll fade away. And for better or worse, that’s the way entertainment works. Not everybody has to like their approach. All that said, I think asking IU Management to influence their content is a bad thing. 

[tdhoosier]

On 9/17/2022 at 5:44 PM, Purdue7 said:

I asked this question to a few people.

Would you feel good about donating money to an NIL or Riley Childrens Hospital?

 

I’m glad the kids are getting paid but the cesspool of D1 football & basketball got better or worse?

Would you feel better about donating to Riley’s or to help starving kids in Africa? What about Riley’s or those poor dogs in the Sara McLaughlin commercial? Putting a hierarchy on moral ways to spend your money is a road you may not want to go down. 

If you don’t feel good about it then don’t donate. There are many ways where you can spend money that’d directly filter to the athletes you choose. Thus, decreasing the ‘cesspool’. A cesspool to me is a few minority taking advantage of money that other can’t take advantage of because it’s against the rules, thus, getting an unfair advantage. Everybody has a right to earn money under the NIL.

[Purdue7]

You guys make great points 

ever try to explain our insane college sports to Europeans?  
 

you are worth what someone will pay you in this free market too 

 

[IUFLA]

Indiana NIL Store is open

Made my first purchase today...

 

Small token of my esteem for Trayce coming back...

[IUCrazy2]

Meh.

[02Hoosier]

3 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Meh.

What’s the point of making this tweet? Just not necessary.

[IUFLA]

29 minutes ago, 02Hoosier said:

What’s the point of making this tweet? Just not necessary.

Trying to be funny I suppose... With the emphasis on "trying." 

[IUFLA]

On 9/24/2022 at 1:59 PM, IUFLA said:

Indiana NIL Store is open

Made my first purchase today...

 

Small token of my esteem for Trayce coming back...

And I'll say this...

I know most people think $40+ after S&H is a bit much for a cotton T-shirt, but it's the era of NIL and small contributions like this can add up... more NIL money, better recruiting whether you like it or not... 

Support our kids...