IUFLA Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Here’s my question though: why can’t there be a “next level” for either program? Look at a school like Northwestern before Fitz. They’re clearly on that next level after being one of the worst P5 programs of all time. Will it be easy? Of course not. But both schools can achieve that next level. The obvious answer to your Northwestern analogy is the jump from total crap to mediocrity is much shorter than from mediocrity to greatness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: As the head coach he knows he is safe but might take the shot to spare one of his asst coaches for making a mistake. And then chew him out in private I’m sure lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 Just now, IUFLA said: The obvious answer to your Northwestern analogy is the jump from total crap to mediocrity is much shorter than from mediocrity to greatness... Not wrong there. But I also think there are plenty of rungs between mediocrity and greatness. Take a program like Iowa for example. I think IU and Purdue could get to that level and I wouldn’t call them a great program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Not wrong there. But I also think there are plenty of rungs between mediocrity and greatness. Take a program like Iowa for example. I think IU and Purdue could get to that level and I wouldn’t call them a great program. Sorry for just jumping into the conversation.... Iowa is 100% a great program. Every single year 8-4 or better, Jan 1st bowl regularly and multiple times 10+ win seasons. Consistency has to play a factor. They are there EVERY year. Also... your division sucks. Lucky you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 AZ ST... home loss to EMU. Another reason we don't need to apologize for being 3-0. EMU had barely beaten EKU and had been THUMPED by ULL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, btownqb said: Sorry for just jumping into the conversation.... Iowa is 100% a great program. Every single year 8-4 or better, Jan 1st bowl regularly and multiple times 10+ win seasons. Consistency has to play a factor. They are there EVERY year. Also... your division sucks. Lucky you. If we were in the West maybe we could be like Iowa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, rico said: If we were in the West maybe we could be like Iowa. Agree. Frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 45 minutes ago, btownqb said: Sorry for just jumping into the conversation.... Iowa is 100% a great program. Every single year 8-4 or better, Jan 1st bowl regularly and multiple times 10+ win seasons. Consistency has to play a factor. They are there EVERY year. Also... your division sucks. Lucky you. The main reason for that is that they've had 2 coaches in 43 years. And when they've suffered through some lean years (and they've had them), they don't see the grass as greener... They stuck with 2 pretty good coaches (Fry and Ferentz) and they have had some modicum of success... Kinda what I alluded to hoping for from CTA at the beginning of this conversation... But there's a difference between Iowa good and Ohio State/Michigan good... Those teams don't "top out" at 10-2... They top out... Well, on top... If Iowa is what @Stlboiler23is talking about, fine... But I've seen Boiler fans with much higher expectations, and I just don't see it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The main reason for that is that they've had 2 coaches in 43 years. And when they've suffered through some lean years (and they've had them), they don't see the grass as greener... They stuck with 2 pretty good coaches (Fry and Ferentz) and they have had some modicum of success... Kinda what I alluded to hoping for from CTA at the beginning of this conversation... But there's a difference between Iowa good and Ohio State/Michigan good... Those teams don't "top out" at 10-2... They top out... Well, on top... If Iowa is what @Stlboiler23is talking about, fine... But I've seen Boiler fans with much higher expectations, and I just don't see it... I think Iowa is the template Purdue needs to aim for. Any Purdue fan with higher expectations than that needs a reality check honestly. 3 D1 programs in the state plus a ton of talented programs nearby in a state that doesn’t produce nearly enough talent for an overall roster is tough for schools like IU and Purdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said: I did not see and don't care but if Brohm says it was on him called by referee 40 yards away all the PU can call outrage and say it was BS, just like is happening. If he says our ST coach got it from the referee right beside him you lose that sympathy. Just my guess. Being the victim is in in 2022 So apparently in his press conference today, he mentioned the flag was thrown on Payne (which in and of itself was bad because both players were jawing back and forth) and during a commercial break, Brohm had stepped onto the field a few yards to try to ask why they called it on Payne and the ref in the endzone 40+ yards away threw the flag because Brohm was on the field even during a commercial break. That’s laughably bad officiating especially at that juncture in the game. Hopefully that crew is reprimanded but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 59 minutes ago, btownqb said: Sorry for just jumping into the conversation.... Iowa is 100% a great program. Every single year 8-4 or better, Jan 1st bowl regularly and multiple times 10+ win seasons. Consistency has to play a factor. They are there EVERY year. Also... your division sucks. Lucky you. I guess it’s just semantics. To me, a great program is Ohio State/Michigan/Penn State. Iowa to me is a really good program but not in that great conversation tbh. Their historical winning percentage isn’t in the great category IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: So apparently in his press conference today, he mentioned the flag was thrown on Payne (which in and of itself was bad because both players were jawing back and forth) and during a commercial break, Brohm had stepped onto the field a few yards to try to ask why they called it on Payne and the ref in the endzone 40+ yards away threw the flag because Brohm was on the field even during a commercial break. That’s laughably bad officiating especially at that juncture in the game. Hopefully that crew is reprimanded but I doubt it. Officiating is generally, laughably bad. WKU took the cheapest shot I've ever seen on a slide on a QB.... they literally picked up the flag they'd already thrown and forgot allllll about the term "unnecessary roughness". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyHoosier22 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 54 minutes ago, btownqb said: Agree. Frustrating. The good news is, from what I’m hearing, the divisions won’t be around for much longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, IndyHoosier22 said: The good news is, from what I’m hearing, the divisions won’t be around for much longer. Praise jesus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 26 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: I guess it’s just semantics. To me, a great program is Ohio State/Michigan/Penn State. Iowa to me is a really good program but not in that great conversation tbh. Their historical winning percentage isn’t in the great category IMO. Good/great. I use the term elite for the OSUs of the world. I see marginal difference in Iowa and Michigan/Penn St. I think Mich and PSU absolutely get better players, but the product on the field the past 22 years is very similar, imo. But yes, semantics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, btownqb said: Good/great. I use the term elite for the OSUs of the world. I see marginal difference in Iowa and Michigan/Penn St. I think Mich and PSU absolutely get better players, but the product on the field the past 22 years is very similar, imo. But yes, semantics. Fair points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 44 minutes ago, btownqb said: Good/great. I use the term elite for the OSUs of the world. I see marginal difference in Iowa and Michigan/Penn St. I think Mich and PSU absolutely get better players, but the product on the field the past 22 years is very similar, imo. But yes, semantics. Michigan is much closer historically to Ohio State than they are Iowa... Not even close...over 800 wins (like Ohio State...Iowa has 600 and change) 17 Rose Bowls to 4 for the Hawkeyes You can carve out that last 22 years if you want, but historically it's not even a question... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Michigan is much closer historically to Ohio State than they are Iowa... Not even close...over 800 wins (like Ohio State...Iowa has 600 and change) 17 Rose Bowls to 4 for the Hawkeyes You can carve out that last 22 years if you want, but historically it's not even a question... Michigan is closer to Iowa for over the past two decades than they are OSU. The current state of each program is that, as well. Penn St, Iowa, Michigan are all pretty close to each other, OSU is 2 steps above. 22 years isn't exactly something to sneeze at. Michigan and Penn State are not elite, currently, neither is Iowa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, btownqb said: Michigan is closer to Iowa for over the past two decades than they are OSU. The current state of each program is that, as well. Penn St, Iowa, Michigan are all pretty close to each other, OSU is 2 steps above. 22 years isn't exactly something to sneeze at. Michigan and Penn State are not elite, currently, neither is Iowa. You're talking strictly wins and losses I'm talking about overall program...History, tradition, brand...You don't judge a book by 1 chapter... And in that context, Michigan IS elite... You younger fellas always want to put an expiration date on greatness... Edited September 19, 2022 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You're talking strictly wins and losses I'm talking about overall program...History, tradition, brand...You don't judge a book by 1 chapter... And in that context, Michigan IS elite... You younger fellas always want to put an expiration date on greatness... Wins and losses and where they finish in the final AP poll. If Michigan is great... they need to start being great. Awfully long time between Charles Woodson holding that rose in his mouth and last years F4 team. Graduating college SRs haven't seen Michigan greatness in their lifetime... they've simply seen a good program. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue3542 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said: So apparently in his press conference today, he mentioned the flag was thrown on Payne (which in and of itself was bad because both players were jawing back and forth) and during a commercial break, Brohm had stepped onto the field a few yards to try to ask why they called it on Payne and the ref in the endzone 40+ yards away threw the flag because Brohm was on the field even during a commercial break. That’s laughably bad officiating especially at that juncture in the game. Hopefully that crew is reprimanded but I doubt it. I just watched the ending of the game. Durham 100% deserved his penalty. I'm pretty sure it was the amalgamation of his antics before and then after the PAT that did him in. Syracuse player jawed a little bit, but only because Durham literally got in his face and kept going after him. Admittedly speculation here, but I also kind of doubt the refs just penalized Brohm out of the blue like that without telling him to back off first, and then when he didn't they penalized him, too. Furthermore, there's no good reason for Brohm to be laying into the refs in this situation. He should have been chewing out Durham for even giving the refs an excuse to throw a flag, which, in my opinion, crystallizes my final point... This isn't a one game issue for Purdue; they have a serious trend of lack of discipline and key penalties cementing their defeat, and I think Brohm getting his UC penalty in response to Durham's is a microcosm of why the team continues to have that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, rogue3542 said: I just watched the ending of the game. Durham 100% deserved his penalty. I'm pretty sure it was the amalgamation of his antics before and then after the PAT that did him in. Syracuse player jawed a little bit, but only because Durham literally got in his face and kept going after him. Admittedly speculation here, but I also kind of doubt the refs just penalized Brohm out of the blue like that without telling him to back off first, and then when he didn't they penalized him, too. Furthermore, there's no good reason for Brohm to be laying into the refs in this situation. He should have been chewing out Durham for even giving the refs an excuse to throw a flag, which, in my opinion, crystallizes my final point... This isn't a one game issue for Purdue; they have a serious trend of lack of discipline and key penalties cementing their defeat, and I think Brohm getting his UC penalty in response to Durham's is a microcosm of why the team continues to have that problem. I agree that there needs to be more accountability from a penalty perspective and Brohm admitted that. But the Cuse guy shoved/initiated things after the PAT with Payne and then things went from there. Was he really “laying into the refs” though? He admitted that he’s been way worse a number of times and didn’t get penalized. I’ve seen Tom Allen scream at the officials before and no flag was thrown. To get two UC penalties on one play when there’s no fight involved seems unwarranted. Brohm said they sent some data to the head of officials so we’ll see what happens. Edited September 19, 2022 by Stlboiler23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: I agree that there needs to be more accountability from a penalty perspective and Brohm admitted that. But the Cuse guy shoved/initiated things after the PAT with Payne and then things went from there. Was he really “laying into the refs” though? He admitted that he’s been way worse a number of times and didn’t get penalized. I’ve seen Tom Allen scream at the officials before and no flag was thrown. To get two UC penalties on one play when there’s no fight involved seems unwarranted. Brohm said they sent some data to the head of officials so we’ll see what happens. Everything in this post screams "we're a second-rate program." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheWatShot said: Everything in this post screams "we're a second-rate program." Alrighty Edited September 19, 2022 by Stlboiler23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said: Here’s my question though: why can’t there be a “next level” for either program? Look at a school like Northwestern before Fitz. They’re clearly on that next level after being one of the worst P5 programs of all time. Will it be easy? Of course not. But both schools can achieve that next level. Northwestern lost to Southern Illionois at home this past weekend. Southern Illinois lost to Prairie View A&M by 30 the week before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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