dgambill Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: If anything, he's regressed. He's basically a skinny shot-blocker this year. He looked a lot better when he had a bunch of senior talent around him. Williams is the focal point of that offense...and for good reason. That kid is better than either of the H&H brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 21 hours ago, IU_Realist said: Now you are just making a crazy argument. College coaches have no impact on how a kid performs once they get in the NBA. Painter helped develop him into a first round draft pick even though he was too short to play PF in the NBA. He got significantly better at Purdue. Swanigan as a frosh, I didn't know how he would turn out and then as a soph, he demolished the B10. His PER was too low for a big. He wasn't ready as a frosh. Productive bigs typically are in the 20 from a PER standpoint. Swanigan was a 15. You really are going to die on this aren't you? Why do you feel the need to be right here? There's a legit difference of opinion. Painter is a good college coach. He's no big-man guru. Plenty of coaches could have coached Swanigan to those numbers in college. It's not like he had no talent. We could also say that Crean is a tremendous guard and wing developer...Dwayne Wade, Victor Oladipo, OG Anunoby... Cody Zeller's stats improved from freshman to sophomore too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Why do you feel the need to be right here? There's a legit difference of opinion. Painter is a good college coach. He's no big-man guru. Plenty of coaches could have coached Swanigan to those numbers in college. It's not like he had no talent. We could also say that Crean is a tremendous guard and wing developer...Dwayne Wade, Victor Oladipo, OG Anunoby... Cody Zeller's stats improved from freshman to sophomore too. It is not a legitimate difference of opinion. Cody Zeller was still getting his shots at the rim in 2012 just like 2013...70% to 69%. Cody Zeller didn't expand his shooting to 3 pt shooting as well at Indiana. He was predominately a paint player. Remember when Cody was telling NBA execs that he didn't get to show that part of his game at IU? He expanded how he scored in the paint by isolations from 15 foot and driving. From an NBA perspective, Cody was always the better prospect due to his height and his great vertical metrics. Cody's PER was 31 his frosh year and 29 his soph year. He was also always very efficient in scoring. One can say he was under utilized during Crean's tenure. Caleb Swanigan went from 15 to 26. Cody was a better frosh than Swanigan was. However, soph Swanigan was pretty special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, IU_Realist said: It is not a legitimate difference of opinion. Cody Zeller was still getting his shots at the rim in 2012 just like 2013...70% to 69%. Cody Zeller didn't expand his shooting to 3 pt shooting as well at Indiana. He was predominately a paint player. Remember when Cody was telling NBA execs that he didn't get to show that part of his game at IU? He expanded how he scored in the paint by isolations from 15 foot and driving. From an NBA perspective, Cody was always the better prospect due to his height and his great vertical metrics. Cody's PER was 31 his frosh year and 29 his soph year. He was also always very efficient in scoring. One can say he was under utilized during Crean's tenure. Caleb Swanigan went from 15 to 26. Cody was a better frosh than Swanigan was. However, soph Swanigan was pretty special. Yeah, I think it is a legitimate difference of opinion...there are also plenty of bigs that went to Purdue and never amounted to much. Is it fair to give Painter all the credit when they do well but look the other way when they play like Travis Carroll? Aside from ignoring all the players Crean coached up from absolute obscurity, no one calls Tom Crean a big man guru and he doesn't even get much credit for guard and wing development. So Swanigan talks to pro scouts after his freshman year and realizes he needs to work on his outside shot. Sure, he probably gets encouragement from Painter to do that as well, but I'm still wondering what Painter's secret sauce was here and why it didn't translate to NBA success. It wasn't like Charles Barkley was tall either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Yeah, I think it is a legitimate difference of opinion...there are also plenty of bigs that went to Purdue and never amounted to much. Is it fair to give Painter all the credit when they do well but look the other way when they play like Travis Carroll? Aside from ignoring all the players Crean coached up from absolute obscurity, no one calls Tom Crean a big man guru and he doesn't even get much credit for guard and wing development. So Swanigan talks to pro scouts after his freshman year and realizes he needs to work on his outside shot. Sure, he probably gets encouragement from Painter to do that as well, but I'm still wondering what Painter's secret sauce was here and why it didn't translate to NBA success. It wasn't like Charles Barkley was tall either. Because Swanigan is playing against guys significantly more athletic/taller than him in the NBA than he faced in college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, IU_Realist said: It is not a legitimate difference of opinion. Cody Zeller was still getting his shots at the rim in 2012 just like 2013...70% to 69%. Cody Zeller didn't expand his shooting to 3 pt shooting as well at Indiana. He was predominately a paint player. Remember when Cody was telling NBA execs that he didn't get to show that part of his game at IU? He expanded how he scored in the paint by isolations from 15 foot and driving. From an NBA perspective, Cody was always the better prospect due to his height and his great vertical metrics. Cody's PER was 31 his frosh year and 29 his soph year. He was also always very efficient in scoring. One can say he was under utilized during Crean's tenure. Caleb Swanigan went from 15 to 26. Cody was a better frosh than Swanigan was. However, soph Swanigan was pretty special. Swanigan shot roughly the same amount of 3's in his freshman and sophomore years. Only .3 more and actually .3 less adjusted for MP. The big difference for him was he hit 44.7% in year 2 vs. only 29.2% in year 1. If you think Painter made him a better 3pt shooter then so be it. I believe that being a better shooter was on him putting in the time on his own. It is a fallacy that Painter let him move out to the 3 point line in year two though. Almost all of his improvement was from increased minutes and taken from the transition from Hammons to Haas besides the increase FG% and 3P% which like I said before is usually self improvement not coaching improvement IMO and he got to the line more and shot a better % from there. By "transition from Hammons to Haas" I mean, for example, Haas played 5.1 mins less than Hammons, and Biggie played 6.3 mins more, Haas had 3.2 less boards than Hammons and Biggie had 4 more, etc. Don't get me wrong. Swanigan was a McD's All-American and 5* for a reason, and he had a great sophomore year. I just think his #'s improvement was more from increased opportunity and hard work on his part, not so much from Painter's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Because Swanigan is playing against guys significantly more athletic/taller than him in the NBA than he faced in college? Isn't that true for everyone who moves on to the pros? One minute he's a top-20 McDonald's All-American who dramatically improved his game from freshman to his soph season because of his big-man specialist coach and the next minute, his development hits a brick wall at the end of his 2nd season at Purdue and he never had a chance in the NBA... Thomas Bryant wasn't as highly rated as Swanigan was and yet, he's carving out a nice career in the NBA. Good coach...I'll give you that. Just was never sold that he was a top big-man specialist. If he was, he'd be getting top big men regularly and they'd be showing success beyond Purdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, cybergates said: Swanigan shot roughly the same amount of 3's in his freshman and sophomore years. Only .3 more and actually .3 less adjusted for MP. The big difference for him was he hit 44.7% in year 2 vs. only 29.2% in year 1. If you think Painter made him a better 3pt shooter then so be it. I believe that being a better shooter was on him putting in the time on his own. It is a fallacy that Painter let him move out to the 3 point line in year two though. Almost all of his improvement was from increased minutes and taken from the transition from Hammons to Haas besides the increase FG% and 3P% which like I said before is usually self improvement not coaching improvement IMO and he got to the line more and shot a better % from there. By "transition from Hammons to Haas" I mean, for example, Haas played 5.1 mins less than Hammons, and Biggie played 6.3 mins more, Haas had 3.2 less boards than Hammons and Biggie had 4 more, etc. Don't get me wrong. Swanigan was a McD's All-American and 5* for a reason, and he had a great sophomore year. I just think his #'s improvement was more from increased opportunity and hard work on his part, not so much from Painter's development. He also started shooting more away from the basket as well. His shooting percentage on jump shots outside of paint increased by 5% and his 3 pt shooting increased by 15%. His shots at the rim actually went down 4% which he was still completing at 68%. His usage percentage went from 24% to 28% and only went up 3 shots per game. That is not a ton of extra usage there. What happened is he became a lot more efficient in his scoring from his shots away from the rim and from 3. His PER went from 15 to 26 (significant increase), his rebounding (defensive) numbers increased significantly, TOV% went down (efficiency), assist % went up, and block % went up. He improved almost every aspect of his game with only 4% usage increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 why in the world on an IU message board we are talking bobut Purdue how well Painter develops big men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: why in the world on an IU message board we are talking bobut Purdue how well Painter develops big men. Because some of those think like a lot of HS coaches in Indiana and know that Painter is a good developer of talent and a good coach. He is very well respected in this state for it. If you can't realize that with his lack of overall talent, then I don't know what to say. Back on Furst, he probably is the fifth best talent in this state though. If IU could get Kaufman, they will be in great shape. This will be the best class since 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skrappy74 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: why in the world on an IU message board we are talking bobut Purdue how well Painter develops big men. Gotta love March- log in and see Furst/Boilers at top of the page!!! Getting trolled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, IU_Realist said: Because some of those think like a lot of HS coaches in Indiana and know that Painter is a good developer of talent and a good coach. He is very well respected in this state for it. If you can't realize that with his lack of overall talent, then I don't know what to say. Back on Furst, he probably is the fifth best talent in this state though. If IU could get Kaufman, they will be in great shape. This will be the best class since 2007. You do realize you can dig up as many stats as you’d like, but somebody could dig up others to suggest he’s not. This is an opinionated topic. If he can’t get five star kids, or enough talent to win a title, then on that merit alone people might believe he’s not a great coach. Recruiting is part of coaching. Regardless, plunge this thread. Don’t care about Furst anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Congratulations to Purdue! Happy for Furst, wish he would have picked IU ,but at least in stayed home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Puck Furdue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornHoosier Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 7 hours ago, IU Scott said: why in the world on an IU message board we are talking bobut Purdue how well Painter develops big men. Because IU fans are tired of losing to an instate school who has Zero Banners!! Doesn’t matter about pro success but Collegiately PU always seem to have Big men that gives IU fits & Im tired of it. As much as I love TJD, it was a brilliant game plan by Painter to double him every time he touched the ball. Little jealous we can’t have a brilliant game plan vs great talented players but diff conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 36 minutes ago, BornHoosier said: Because IU fans are tired of losing to an instate school who has Zero Banners!! Doesn’t matter about pro success but Collegiately PU always seem to have Big men that gives IU fits & Im tired of it. As much as I love TJD, it was a brilliant game plan by Painter to double him every time he touched the ball. Little jealous we can’t have a brilliant game plan vs great talented players but diff conversation. Yeah, I wish we were 16-14 instead of 19-11 (with a very similar SOS btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornHoosier Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 27 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: Yeah, I wish we were 16-14 instead of 19-11 (with a very similar SOS btw). Hey, if the Colts can hang a participation banner then PU can hang a season sweep vs IU Banner!!! Their rafters are so lonely nobody will care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 9 hours ago, BornHoosier said: Because IU fans are tired of losing to an instate school who has Zero Banners!! Doesn’t matter about pro success but Collegiately PU always seem to have Big men that gives IU fits & Im tired of it. As much as I love TJD, it was a brilliant game plan by Painter to double him every time he touched the ball. Little jealous we can’t have a brilliant game plan vs great talented players but diff conversation. I want to beat Purdue as much as anyone but I am more worried about winning the big ten and long runs on the tournament. If we lose to Purdue twice but win the big ten and make a deep run in the tournament I couldn't care less about those two Purdue games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 48 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I want to beat Purdue as much as anyone but I am more worried about winning the big ten and long runs on the tournament. If we lose to Purdue twice but win the big ten and make a deep run in the tournament I couldn't care less about those two Purdue games. Sounds great in theory and I would agree but reality has been PU owns us, BTT never been kind to us and long tournament run has been quite some time. Maybe this is our year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 I'm still trying to figure out how a now PU thread is still being talked about on a IU board lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said: I'm still trying to figure out how a now PU thread is still being talked about on a IU board lol Have no idea because this recruit is no longer looking at IU so it should be locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Ummmmm. Basketball exists outside Bloomington. And, Caleb Furst, whether a Purdue recruit or not, is a conversation piece when discussing basketball in Indiana. Seriously, if you don't want to be part of the conversation, DON'T OPEN THE THREAD! There are hundreds of threads on this board that I never once opened, and hundreds more I no longer visit because I'm bored with the topic. Stop with the crusade to censor content on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 hours ago, IU Scott said: Have no idea because this recruit is no longer looking at IU so it should be locked. Why lock a thread where people are actively talking basketball. I read the rules thread, it never reads" Only allowed to discuss IU". it is a solid, active thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 and commenting on a thread you want to die, "moves it on up" to the top hurting your cause... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 I don’t understand why people that don’t want to partake in the thread anymore can’t just not click on it. Am I missing something? I agree this has been a good discussion that I have enjoyed reading. Much better than talking about Ketchup and hot seats and what version of DG showed up to the most recent game. It’s good to get away from the usual things that always come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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