rico Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, dgambill said: Anyone know Allen’s buyout numbers for the next couple years? https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2022/10/15/indiana-hoosiers-football-what-is-tom-allen-contract-buyout-cost-to-fire-iu/69559592007/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 so I’m guessing Allen post game remarks! Very disappointing, made to many mistakes poor execution! We well look at the film and need to correct our mistakes! Sound familiar! Heard that same shit for 50 years! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 I was reading some of Tom Allen buy out clause. It seems to me it’s better for him to fail and be fired then it is for him to succeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 55 minutes ago, rico said: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2022/10/15/indiana-hoosiers-football-what-is-tom-allen-contract-buyout-cost-to-fire-iu/69559592007/ So just one more year basically. No Alumni is going to pay for an IU football coach to be bought out like basketball. They just don’t care enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 I think the CTA experiment is over. It's just going to drag on for another couple of years. We are the walking dead. It won't really damage the program because right now there is nothing left to damage. We have time to put a plan together to make IU football relevant. The question is do we have the will to do it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slojoe Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 3 hours ago, dgambill said: Anyone know Allen’s buyout numbers for the next couple years? Some one posted them but I don't remember which thread. But huge as OLDIUFAN says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 6 hours ago, dgambill said: So just one more year basically. No Alumni is going to pay for an IU football coach to be bought out like basketball. They just don’t care enough. 2 years. 25 million, 20 mill. Doesnt drop to 8 mill until Dec, 2024. Dolson should be fired for giving him this contract. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 7 hours ago, rico said: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2022/10/15/indiana-hoosiers-football-what-is-tom-allen-contract-buyout-cost-to-fire-iu/69559592007/ I think a key phrase is fired without cause. I wonder if these contracts are subject to applicable state laws like everyone else. I guess it depends on the language in it. My current employment contract allows for termination for performance based issues. Allen seems like a good guy so at least his future retirement plans are secure courtesy of IU athletic dept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 You cant pay that buy out so I say demote him. Make him head of tailgate, parking and stadium clean up. The head coach of IU clean up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Indykev said: You cant pay that buy out so I say demote him. Make him head of tailgate, parking and stadium clean up. The head coach of IU clean up. Great idea. Maybe he'd welcome it. Some guys are afraid to ask. I requested a demotion once and got it because I hated the role I was promoted to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-BONE Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 CTA couldn't finish what Wilson started. Not sure Wilson would've either I suppose, but he did usually have a competent o-line with a big-time RB to go with it. Even in the absence of talent/performance anywhere else. Underwhelming D again this year reflects even worse on CTA with him re-taking the play-calling reins. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Indykev said: 2 years. 25 million, 20 mill. Doesnt drop to 8 mill until Dec, 2024. Dolson should be fired for giving him this contract. It seems odd to have such a huge buyout without putting a minimum number of wins on it. IU doesn’t negotiate well. You could point out that IU was coming off two excellent seasons by IU standards—which is true—and IU needed to pay up lest they risk losing him. That’s true but beside the point. You can still negotiate that the buyout is $25 M so long as you win the 3 conference games (a marginal number). Or else it’s [much smaller number]. Now you might say that Allen wouldn’t sign that clause. If I were IU that would give me pause. “You mean you want us to guarantee you $25 M and you can’t even accept 3 wins?” You really could start at 4 and negotiate down to 3. But that negotiation is precisely to protect you from a disaster where you win 0-2 games and STILL somehow owe a monster amount of money. Lawyers and AD’s are paid to think things like this through. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Indykev said: 2 years. 25 million, 20 mill. Doesnt drop to 8 mill until Dec, 2024. Dolson should be fired for giving him this contract. Delicate balance for sure. At the time were coming off our most successful back to back seasons in program history. Other schools were starting the poaching, you want to make sure he was in place for recruiting,etc.... Wish I could see the actual wording of the contract. I have a very hard time believing that a university which has been historically frugal....doesn't have language in there regarding buyout that it's offset by earnings of another gig if Allen takes one. Meaning we fire him. He takes one year off but is hired to coach South Florida in 2 seasons for 5 years and $15M. The latter would be removed from the total buyout number making it far less. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, slojoe said: Don't think there is a great chance. He has to get some good assistants and keep them. We are getting some good talent, but development is not always what it should be. He has to think and act more like a CEO than he has. Like you say we could go in to a death spiral with players and commits jumping ship. You put your finger on it. People want to belittle him but Allen is a good man who had a couple of years better than IU fans could reasonably expect. I follow his press availablilities and it’s crazy to think he doesn’t know X’s and O’s, schemes and what he wants from both sides of the ball plus ST’s. But being a head coach of an operation this size requires considerable managerial ability. It’s the CEO idea like you said. This is the problem. It’s whack a mole with problems and he hasn’t shown the skill set to manage it all. You need every position group humming. It’s not. You need the schemes to mesh and make sense. They don’t. You need significant player development. It’s just not working. It’s not because he doesn’t know football. He certainly does. The problem is different IMO; he is struggling to keep up and manage it all. It’s a big operation. The couple of years we were good, he had the right staff but he hasn’t been able to keep that going and that’s on him. I suspect that Allen will be back because of the buyout and Bell will be gone. From the press conferences it sure doesn’t sound like he likes him. The pace has spectacularly backfired and makes no sense with this roster. They’ve struggled to even play the right guys in the right spots. In any event, when you go 0-19 over the last ten games of one year and the last nine of the next, you’re going to get criticism. That’s part of his $5M paycheck. Edited October 23, 2022 by BobSaccamanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Delicate balance for sure. At the time were coming off our most successful back to back seasons in program history. Other schools were starting the poaching, you want to make sure he was in place for recruiting,etc.... Wish I could see the actual wording of the contract. I have a very hard time believing that a university which has been historically frugal....doesn't have language in there regarding buyout that it's offset by earnings of another gig if Allen takes one. Meaning we fire him. He takes one year off but is hired to coach South Florida in 2 seasons for 5 years and $15M. The latter would be removed from the total buyout number making it far less. Same here. I presume there is offset language in there but I have never seen it. Even if there is, though, he might get a DC role where the new money will be substantially less so IU would fork out the delta? My guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Just now, BobSaccamanno said: Same here. I presume there is offset language in there but I have never seen it. Even if there is, though, he might get a DC role where the new money will be substantially less so IU would fork out the delta? My guess. Yep...I'd have to see the language. Contracts are made to be broken or enforced to either side whenever and however they see fit. Shoot our former AD gave Wilson a contract extension in January but had very specific language in there because of rumors (which proved to be true) and when things started going bad that fall Glass called his law firm and said I need you to find the goods so we can enforce the show cause part or accept low buyout. Sorry to derail gang. Wish we weren't talking about contracts, buyouts,etc....after a Rutgers game. That's a long two weeks before Penn St comes calling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Yep...I'd have to see the language. Contracts are made to be broken or enforced to either side whenever and however they see fit. Shoot our former AD gave Wilson a contract extension in January but had very specific language in there because of rumors (which proved to be true) and when things started going bad that fall Glass called his law firm and said I need you to find the goods so we can enforce the show cause part or accept low buyout. Sorry to derail gang. Wish we weren't talking about contracts, buyouts,etc....after a Rutgers game. That's a long two weeks before Penn St comes calling. Maybe we can get an upset somewhere in the rest of the season. That’s why they play the games. IU is not completely devoid of talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said: Maybe we can get an upset somewhere in the rest of the season. That’s why they play the games. IU is not completely devoid of talent. Can it be Ohio St.? lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 The problem is our team is out there for all to see. We fire Bell after one year. Who’s Allen going to get. Who in there right mind would come to this crap show! I guess some no name trying to make a name for himself. If he can have a little success he could move on to Bigger an Better things. Like DeBoer did. The big mistake was it took 4 years to long to fire Hiller. Now you need two years to build a offensive line. Our program is back the way Lynch left it. Now with Tranfer Portal it will be hard to keep any player with Big Ten Talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Why are we firing Bell? Allen picked him. He fired the OC, last year, you took over the defense this year. Now you fire the OL coach the middle of the year. At what point do you accept responsibility and realize it is you…you can’t keep firing everyone else. The one constant is you. It isn’t fair to the kids and it isn’t fair to the fans if you keep firing assistants and changing systems. Stick with it and figure a way to make it work out or quit. I wouldn’t pay a dime for your mistakes…it’s your job to make us better and if you can’t a decent meal after you picked what to make and picked all the groceries then it means you are a bad chef. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 9 hours ago, Indykev said: You cant pay that buy out so I say demote him. Make him head of tailgate, parking and stadium clean up. The head coach of IU clean up. I was actually going to (somewhat jokingly) suggest they hire Hugh Freeze as head coach and make Allen his defensive coordinator. Hasn’t Allen worked for Freeze before? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Wonder if Coach Orgeron is looking for a job. I'm sure the coeds in Bloomington would be to his liking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said: Wonder if Coach Orgeron is looking for a job. I'm sure the coeds in Bloomington would be to his liking. We haven't had much success with ex-LSU head coaches. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 13 hours ago, Indykev said: You cant pay that buy out so I say demote him. Make him head of tailgate, parking and stadium clean up. The head coach of IU clean up. Take away his stapler 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Take away his stapler As long as he still gets his paychecks. Don't want him burning the place down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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