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How high can TJD climb on the All-Time list?


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This is obviously a subjective question, but how high can TJD climb on the All-Time list of Hoosier players?

I made the comment the other day that he is, at this point, the best player I can remember and I'm 34. Yes, I realize Calbert and maybe Henderson were better, but I don't remember them.

To me, he can get into the Top 5. If we were to win the Conference, make a FF or win it all, and he finishes in the Top 3 All-Time in scoring I think he's got a very compelling case for that. Where exactly in the top 5? Man that's a really tough question because I'm not even sure I can tell you who deserves number 1 right now. 

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I think a lot of my generation hold team success against TJD.  In a different era, Kent Benson started on an undefeated National Champion and was the #1 pick in the NBA draft.  TJD is every bit as good, if not better, than Benson was as a senior.  Different era, sure.  Doesn't diminish one bit how good TJD is.   

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13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

This is obviously a subjective question, but how high can TJD climb on the All-Time list of Hoosier players?

I made the comment the other day that he is, at this point, the best player I can remember and I'm 34. Yes, I realize Calbert and maybe Henderson were better, but I don't remember them.

To me, he can get into the Top 5. If we were to win the Conference, make a FF or win it all, and he finishes in the Top 3 All-Time in scoring I think he's got a very compelling case for that. Where exactly in the top 5? Man that's a really tough question because I'm not even sure I can tell you who deserves number 1 right now. 

The difference I see between TJD and Henderson is the outside shooting. Henderson was deadly on the 15 ft baseline jumper. TJD is a lot more athletic and get to the rim better but Henderson was better with his back to the basket. Henderson had a great turn around jumper in the post.

 

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8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

This is obviously a subjective question, but how high can TJD climb on the All-Time list of Hoosier players?

I made the comment the other day that he is, at this point, the best player I can remember and I'm 34. Yes, I realize Calbert and maybe Henderson were better, but I don't remember them.

To me, he can get into the Top 5. If we were to win the Conference, make a FF or win it all, and he finishes in the Top 3 All-Time in scoring I think he's got a very compelling case for that. Where exactly in the top 5? Man that's a really tough question because I'm not even sure I can tell you who deserves number 1 right now. 

It's hard to rank players from different teams and different eras but I will throw out some stats. After tonight, he has 1688 career points. He should be able make it to #3 or 4 on IU's all time scoring list. He's already #8 on IU's all time rebounding list with a chance to finish at #1. He's #7 on IU's all time blocks list and again has a chance at #1.

So he should definitely be considered one of the best players at IU. What might hold him back in some people's eyes is that he hasn't been on great teams the past 3 years so has only 1 NCAAT appearance with 2 games played in that, the only win coming in the play in game.  But those teams weren't mediocre/bad because of him, the were mediocre/bad in spite of him.

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Just now, Lostin76 said:

I recall looking a the list of scoring leaders when it was posted and thinking he could get to #3 w/o injuries. Would love to see him hit #1 on rebounds and blocks. 

Lemme do some math....

Coming into the year he was 1588 points, 797 rebs, 178 blocks.... He's avg 21p 9r 1.3b.. expand that average over 33 games (which is the bare minimum, imo, of what we will play).. 693 points, 297 blocks, 43 blocks for the season..

He would finish 3rd in points, 1st in rebs, and 1st in blocks. 

 

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TJD will go down as an all-time great Hoosier, absolutely no doubt. 

With that said, when you get to the upper, upper echelon you're often splitting hairs and then winning starts to become the tie-breaker. 

It's not TJD's fault that he hasn't been part of a winning program through his first three years, and he actually should probably get extra points for sticking through this, but it would go a very long way for his legacy in this conversation to get a Big Ten Title and have a deep March run. It just would.  

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If it's simply numbers, as I said in another thread, he's in the mix for top centers ever to play at IU now (along with Schlundt, Bellamy, and Benny). If he adds a Big 10 Championship and/or a Final 4 run as @bgleas said, I think he's arguably the top 5 spot guy in IU history. 

IF Trayce gets to #3 on the scoring list, and #1 in blocks and rebounds, he'd definitely be in the conversation for Top 10 All-Time Hoosier greats at any position... 

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Like others have said when you get to the top 5 category it all comes down to F4's/Titles. Only difference between guys like TJD/Yogi legacy and Henderson/Calbert,etc....is deep tourney run. Shoot Jeffries legacy was secured just because of 2002 run. Stats wise he'll go down as one of the all timers....now it's just time to secure his legacy in March and hopefully April.

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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Lemme do some math....

Coming into the year he was 1588 points, 797 rebs, 178 blocks.... He's avg 21p 9r 1.3b.. expand that average over 33 games (which is the bare minimum, imo, of what we will play).. 693 points, 297 blocks, 43 blocks for the season..

He would finish 3rd in points, 1st in rebs, and 1st in blocks. 

 

Exactly, how I was looking at it in my head. I was thinking around 20 per game. 

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Based on previous performance, by the time he finishes this year, TJD will probably be:

1st all time for career blocks

3rd all time for career rebounds

4th all time for career points

 

For a big picture comparison, there are only 2 players that are in the top ten in more than 2 categories, Henderson and Bailey:

  Player Points Rebound    Blocks Steals Assists
4 Alan Henderson 7th 1st 2nd 5th  
3 Damon Bailey 8th     10th 6th
Edited by andy_puiu
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I think it says a lot he has been able to do what he's done on teams that haven't been great. He has had a lot of load to carry and been the primary focus of defenses.

I don't know where to place him but if he didn't come to IU the previous 3 seasons would have likely been historically bad.  

Edited by mrflynn03
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3 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I think it says a lot he has been able to do what he's done on teams that haven't been great. He has had a lot of load to carry and been the primary focus of defenses.

Not only has he been the focus of opposing defenses throughout his time, but he also has had less post-season games/opportunities to accumulate points, rebounds, and blocks.

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Not sure what other players are being considered. I hesitate to use statistics as the true measuring stick of how good a player was/is. If someone has tremendous numbers due to the fact that the rest of the team was not as talented, that can be misleading, imo. I think Trayce goes down somewhere in the second part of the top 10 in program history.

For those that say top 3, who do you have ahead of him? Calbert should absolutely. Bellamy? Alford? Henderson? 

How about this.....Scott May--doesn't matter how statistics fall. 1976 he was:

Naismith College POY

Won the Adolph Rupp trophy

AP College POY

NABC  POY

UPI College POY

Sporting News College POY

And not to be forgotten, the coveted Helms Foundation POY.

He was a 2 time CONSENSUS All- American.

I don't think there was another Hoosier that could match those credentials over those two years. And remember, he only played 3.

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It is a hard discussion especially with some of the less than 4 year players.  Like George McGinnis would have probably had phenomenal 4 year stats, same with Eric Gordon.  Zeke would have put up more stats in a few years but he did bring the title.  JJ would have put some numbers up too.

I think TJD has been a really good player for us.  He just needs to go and get me a title this year and cement himself in that Top 5.

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1 hour ago, andy_puiu said:

Not only has he been the focus of opposing defenses throughout his time, but he also has had less post-season games/opportunities to accumulate points, rebounds, and blocks.

To be fair for the older players they played less games in the regular season. Also they only played 3 years because freshman wasn't eligible to play.

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1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Not sure what other players are being considered. I hesitate to use statistics as the true measuring stick of how good a player was/is. If someone has tremendous numbers due to the fact that the rest of the team was not as talented, that can be misleading, imo. I think Trayce goes down somewhere in the second part of the top 10 in program history.

For those that say top 3, who do you have ahead of him? Calbert should absolutely. Bellamy? Alford? Henderson? 

How about this.....Scott May--doesn't matter how statistics fall. 1976 he was:

Naismith College POY

Won the Adolph Rupp trophy

AP College POY

NABC  POY

UPI College POY

Sporting News College POY

And not to be forgotten, the coveted Helms Foundation POY.

He was a 2 time CONSENSUS All- American.

I don't think there was another Hoosier that could match those credentials over those two years. And remember, he only played 3.

I think most of the talk about "top 3” is strictly in scoring numbers... At least that's what I thought...

As far as your other comments about Scott May, they're absolutely correct... I loved Calbert Cheaney but I'd have a hard time picking between him and May as far as the best IU forward ever. Calbert may be the all the leading scorer, but May was the best player on possibly the best team in college basketball history, and could have been on 2 undefeated NCs if not for the Purdue goon squad... 

Edited by IUFLA
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15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To be fair for the older players they played less games in the regular season. Also they only played 3 years because freshman wasn't eligible to play.

The last FR class that wasn't able to play was what year? 

Also... see, some changes are good. What a stupid rule that was originally. 

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8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

The last FR class that wasn't able to play was what year? 

Also... see, some changes are good. What a stupid rule that was originally. 

They started letting freshmen play in 1972-73.

Freshmen WERE eligible in the WWII years I do believe... 

Edited by IUFLA
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3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So it was Benson/Mays classes that were literally the last two classes for the old rule. Helluva long time ago. 

Actually May/Buckner's class (and yeah, Benny was a year behind) were the first to benefit and we're eligible, but May didn't play as a freshman due to sub standard grades... 

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Vic is my all time favorite player.  Chaney 2nd, Bailey 3rd.  TJD is a favorite for sure.  But I think the CAM era and the lack of winning tarnished his luster some and its not his fault, just the nature of the game.  There has been so much gloom around the program that as bright as he shines, its hard to see him for how great and awesome he is.

Big fan, thankful he chose IU and chose to stay for 4 years.

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5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Actually May/Buckner's class (and yeah, Benny was a year behind) were the first to benefit and we're eligible, but May didn't play as a freshman due to sub standard grades... 

I know they weren't in the same class.

I was saying where the line was, but..  now I see it was actually between Laskowskis class and Mays. I just checked Mays stats before I made that post, saw he didnt play as a FR, knew that Benson did. Thank you. 

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