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Archie is our coach present and future


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I am so happy to have Archie as a coach. We have arguably the least talented team we’ve had since 08. Yet this team rebounds, plays defense, plays hard and has improved. Our future is bright Hoosier Nation! Hang in there -  I know we aren’t up to it standards l, but I am confident we will be there in the next year or two 

Edited by Hoosier987
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22 minutes ago, PoHoosier said:

I agree.

Next year at this time, I believe we are looking to play our way onto the tournament bubble.

Now, if IU lands Romeo, that changes things.

I am so torn on what to think if we don't land Romeo.  On one hand, this seems like a fair thing to say, but on the other what if Morgan continues to improve and Smith and Davis break out?  We could have an absolutely dominant frontcourt.  If Green is really starting to turn a corner, and Phinisee and Hunter are as advertised, we could have enough guard play to make us a solid 7ish seed team.  

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12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I am so torn on what to think if we don't land Romeo.  On one hand, this seems like a fair thing to say, but on the other what if Morgan continues to improve and Smith and Davis break out?  We could have an absolutely dominant frontcourt.  If Green is really starting to turn a corner, and Phinisee and Hunter are as advertised, we could have enough guard play to make us a solid 7ish seed team.  

Agree on all counts.  We are just one consistant player away....

It all seems to be coming from the top with CAM as we are taking away our opponents strength in some close games.

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I think we are one consistent scorer away from making a huge difference. Think if Morgan could have help and relief from scoring from the perimeter he could navigate down low better without it being clogged. I further think that we aren't implementing Archies offense and defense to its fullest capacity yet. Look at our free throw shooting. It seems like our defense has vastly improved but our offense and free throws have suffered some cause of the emphasis being applied to defense. One full off season will make a huge difference. Archie and the kids are still fully getting to know each other. I think this next season you will see a huge difference. Now go land Romeo so butt whoopin tour can properly commence. We gave every team a mulligan this year next year isn't looking to shape up to be that way!

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6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I am so torn on what to think if we don't land Romeo.  On one hand, this seems like a fair thing to say, but on the other what if Morgan continues to improve and Smith and Davis break out?  We could have an absolutely dominant frontcourt.  If Green is really starting to turn a corner, and Phinisee and Hunter are as advertised, we could have enough guard play to make us a solid 7ish seed team.  

kind of like Rico, you and i seldom agree, but this is what i'm saying.  Smith, Morgan, and Davis would be pretty solid.  Green and Phinessee along with Hunter and even Durham will all be key.  throw in McRoberts and give Archie another year with his system, and i don't see why we can't be a factor next season.  

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1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

kind of like Rico, you and i seldom agree, but this is what i'm saying.  Smith, Morgan, and Davis would be pretty solid.  Green and Phinessee along with Hunter and even Durham will all be key.  throw in McRoberts and give Archie another year with his system, and i don't see why we can't be a factor next season.  

Spot on. Add in one of Moore, Thompson or Forrester as a fourth forward and you've got a solid 9 man rotation. 

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7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Spot on. Add in one of Moore, Thompson or Forrester as a fourth forward and you've got a solid 9 man rotation. 

I think you guys are overlooking Anderson too.  He’s arguably the best outside shooter coming in next year and something we’re going to need.  Plus he has good size on the perimeter.

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1 minute ago, StLHoosier said:

I think you guys are overlooking Anderson too.  He’s arguably the best outside shooter coming in next year and something we’re going to need.  Plus he has good size on the perimeter.

You very well may be correct, but which of the other five guards listed is he getting minutes over? Maybe Durham, but hard to see beyond that. Even if he is better than Green or Phinisee, they're both able to be primary ball handlers and he is not. 

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Definitely reason for optimism going forward, but I think we’re overstating how great some close home losses are.  Assembly Hall provides one of the best home court advantages in the nation — we’re always going to have a shot to beat a highly ranked team at home, no matter how bad we are.  It was like that with Crean and it will continue to be like that with Archie.

If Rutgers beats us on Monday after a big moral victory over Purdue at home, who has the brighter future as a coach, Archie or Pikiell?

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37 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You very well may be correct, but which of the other five guards listed is he getting minutes over? Maybe Durham, but hard to see beyond that. Even if he is better than Green or Phinisee, they're both able to be primary ball handlers and he is not. 

He will play the 2/3 in college, so he would split time with McBob.  As Archie gets his guys, we should be playing less of a 3 guard lineup.  I just think his outside shooting will be severely needed, and no one on the current roster has proven to be able to shoot the ball very consistently from the perimeter.  If he can shoot, he will play.

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As talked about in a previous thread...if we only speculate based off of players signed for next year, and everyone is healthy (even though I think we will get Romeo)...then 2018-2019 season is on the shoulders of Juwan and what he decides to do.

If Juwan comes back, we will be a tournament team. If Juwan leaves, we will have another year like this year. 

Now, the more interesting speculation...One has to wonder if Romeo's decision will have impact on Juwan's decision (assuming he's pondering a jump to the pros). Is it frustrating for Juwan to go out there and stack double-doubles against elite competition, only to not get any offensive help and lose in the last 2 minutes? I don't know. Maybe Juwan's future needs its own thread...

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26 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

He will play the 2/3 in college, so he would split time with McBob.  As Archie gets his guys, we should be playing less of a 3 guard lineup.  I just think his outside shooting will be severely needed, and no one on the current roster has proven to be able to shoot the ball very consistently from the perimeter.  If he can shoot, he will play.

Sure, he could definitely get some minutes at the 2/3 but I think he'll be behind Hunter and McRoberts plus I think Green will play some alongside Phinisee at the 2.  Like I said, I can see him taking Al's minutes, but hard to envision McRoberts not getting a ton of time next year. 

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32 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Definitely reason for optimism going forward, but I think we’re overstating how great some close home losses are.  Assembly Hall provides one of the best home court advantages in the nation — we’re always going to have a shot to beat a highly ranked team at home, no matter how bad we are.  It was like that with Crean and it will continue to be like that with Archie.

If Rutgers beats us on Monday after a big moral victory over Purdue at home, who has the brighter future as a coach, Archie or Pikiell?

I'll agree with you that pretty much every IU team has a shot to beat anyone at Assembly Hall. The difference is...under Crean, we played highly ranked teams closely at home (sometimes) because we drained threes...that type of play isn't repeatable over the course of a season, or 9 years...hence why he isn't our coach anymore. Counting on out-shooting opponents every game is a recipe for Crean-level results. 

Under Archie, we are in these games because of defense, rebounding, hustle, grit. That stuff travels. That stuff gets you more consistent wins. That stuff defines a program culture. That stuff sets the floor for the season and raises the ceiling. These games we've been close in are not even remotely comparable to the Crean games.

I don't want this to be a Crean-bashing thread, because there's no reason to bash him, but what do you think last night's score would have been if he was our coach? You think we only have 8 turnovers? You think we out-rebound them even by 1? It's fine for you to play devils advocate, it's fine for you to have tempered expectations, but you're pretty off base with this post. We just out-rebounded MSU 53-29. I don't have to remind of you of the height/size disparity. We lost by 3 to MSU and shot 29%. We shot 21% from three and hit less than half the number of 3's they hit. We turned it over 8 times. Did Crean ever coach a single game with less than 10 turnovers? It will be much, much easier to add offense to this culture, than to add this culture to offense. 

But...to answer your question...Archie.

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37 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

I'll agree with you that pretty much every IU team has a shot to beat anyone at Assembly Hall. The difference is...under Crean, we played highly ranked teams closely at home (sometimes) because we drained threes...that type of play isn't repeatable over the course of a season, or 9 years...hence why he isn't our coach anymore. Counting on out-shooting opponents every game is a recipe for Crean-level results. 

Under Archie, we are in these games because of defense, rebounding, hustle, grit. That stuff travels. That stuff gets you more consistent wins. That stuff defines a program culture. That stuff sets the floor for the season and raises the ceiling. These games we've been close in are not even remotely comparable to the Crean games.

I don't want this to be a Crean-bashing thread, because there's no reason to bash him, but what do you think last night's score would have been if he was our coach? You think we only have 8 turnovers? You think we out-rebound them even by 1? It's fine for you to play devils advocate, it's fine for you to have tempered expectations, but you're pretty off base with this post. We just out-rebounded MSU 53-29. I don't have to remind of you of the height/size disparity. We lost by 3 to MSU and shot 29%. We shot 21% from three and hit less than half the number of 3's they hit. We turned it over 8 times. Did Crean ever coach a single game with less than 10 turnovers? It will be much, much easier to add offense to this culture, than to add this culture to offense. 

But...to answer your question...Archie.

Don’t really disagree with anything you said, although you’ve already forgotten that we were always a good rebounding team under Crean.  I just think it’s a bit much to wax poetic about a bunch of home losses against good teams when pretty much any coach worth anything would be able to keep us in those games.  And although the defense and lack of turnovers are encouraging, Archie has to bear at least a little responsibility for the repeated dismal offensive performances this season.  He didn’t have great offenses his last couple years at Dayton.

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26 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Don’t really disagree with anything you said, although you’ve already forgotten that we were always a good rebounding team under Crean.  I just think it’s a bit much to wax poetic about a bunch of home losses against good teams when pretty much any coach worth anything would be able to keep us in those games.  And although the defense and lack of turnovers are encouraging, Archie has to bear at least a little responsibility for the repeated dismal offensive performances this season.  He didn’t have great offenses his last couple years at Dayton.

Do you think we are getting good shots? 

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54 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Don’t really disagree with anything you said, although you’ve already forgotten that we were always a good rebounding team under Crean.  I just think it’s a bit much to wax poetic about a bunch of home losses against good teams when pretty much any coach worth anything would be able to keep us in those games.  And although the defense and lack of turnovers are encouraging, Archie has to bear at least a little responsibility for the repeated dismal offensive performances this season.  He didn’t have great offenses his last couple years at Dayton.

I don’t think any coach in the country could keep us in the Duke, Purdue and MSU games with the offense firepower we lack. Certainly not yesterday when we shot 20-something %, and yes I think the poor offense is on the lack of talent, not Archie. We’ve been missing wide open shots all season. 

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1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Don’t really disagree with anything you said, although you’ve already forgotten that we were always a good rebounding team under Crean.  I just think it’s a bit much to wax poetic about a bunch of home losses against good teams when pretty much any coach worth anything would be able to keep us in those games.  And although the defense and lack of turnovers are encouraging, Archie has to bear at least a little responsibility for the repeated dismal offensive performances this season.  He didn’t have great offenses his last couple years at Dayton.

I am fine giving a little responsibility to him for poor offensive results, if we're going to give him all the credit for defense, rebounding, etc. But offensively, I am encouraged that we get open looks, that we work on getting the ball inside and that we get shots instead of turnovers. I don't know why we end up with some dismal offensive results...I believe its in part due to lack of high end talent. I believe its in part due to lack of confidence. And with that said, I'll quote a Tom Crean tweet from this morning (which may or may not have been directed towards IU, because I truly believe Crean still wants IU on top),

"You don’t GIVE a person Confidence. They FEEL the BELIEF You have in THEM and they TAKE it from you."

I always felt from the beginning of the season, due to the new offense, we didn't know what shots were okay to take and which ones weren't. That's just a new system. When you can't even believe you're doing the right thing on the court, how can you believe in getting the result you want to achieve? I'm not being critical of Archie's coaching tactics, but I'll concede that it's possible he inherited a team that was used to hearing "good job" all the time, and he's not a "good job" type of coach. So, it's possible, Archie's coaching style does not instill offensive confidence in these players. So, if I could be constructively critical of Archie, I would maybe say down the stretch, to get these guys' confidence up on offense.

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3 hours ago, StLHoosier said:

I think you guys are overlooking Anderson too.  He’s arguably the best outside shooter coming in next year and something we’re going to need.  Plus he has good size on the perimeter.

No doubt. Here's what his current HS coach has to say:

“What he brings is stretching the defense,” Brand said. “He can really shoot the ball. He can shoot it from long range out. He’s got NBA range right now. He’s got some things to work on, he’s gotta get stronger and continue to work on his skill set. But his shooting touch and the way he shoots the ball, it’s hard to teach that. He’s got a gift when it comes to shooting.”

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2018/02/03/how-archie-miller-won-over-hot-shooting-iu-commit-damezi-anderson-looks-forward-joining-up-dream-sch/303169002/

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57 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

No doubt. Here's what his current HS coach has to say:

“What he brings is stretching the defense,” Brand said. “He can really shoot the ball. He can shoot it from long range out. He’s got NBA range right now. He’s got some things to work on, he’s gotta get stronger and continue to work on his skill set. But his shooting touch and the way he shoots the ball, it’s hard to teach that. He’s got a gift when it comes to shooting.”

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2018/02/03/how-archie-miller-won-over-hot-shooting-iu-commit-damezi-anderson-looks-forward-joining-up-dream-sch/303169002/

This is exactly why I think he has a shot at getting real minutes. Be brings the one skill set that nobody, at this point, seems to bring.

A consistent, deepnthreat. That separates him in some ways.

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I don’t think any coach in the country could keep us in the Duke, Purdue and MSU games with the offense firepower we lack. Certainly not yesterday when we shot 20-something %, and yes I think the poor offense is on the lack of talent, not Archie. We’ve been missing wide open shots all season. 

The job of the coach is put the players in the best position to succeed and to me the offense we are running is getting us god shots most of the time.

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28 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The job of the coach is put the players in the best position to succeed and to me the offense we are running is getting us god shots most of the time.

Agree. Our offense isn’t perfect, I’d still like to see more off-ball screens (we do more than the Crean era, but I’d still like more), but IU misses numerous completely wide open shots. Getting open, good looks has not been a problem. 

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