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So Very Sad....

Proud2BAHoosier

By Proud2BAHoosier
in Colonial Crester's Corner

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, rico said:

Try driving 125 mph.

That's not speeding that's wreckless driving; that's not what you asked about. 

Responses like this make it really clear which side wants to have a real conversation and which side is just pushing an agenda with nonsensical points. 

 

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rico

rico

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

That's not speeding that's wreckless driving; that's not what you asked about. 

Responses like this make it really clear which side wants to have a real conversation and which side is just pushing an agenda with nonsensical points. 

 

Alrighty then.....you are on the left side.

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Muddy River

Muddy River

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm on the side that wants kids to be safe; you can't even answer a simple question about if one life being saved is worth more gun regulations. 

I stated my position much earlier in this thread, and I don't want to repeat myself, But I think the "Save One Life" argument absurd.  I guess we should  make baseball bats illegal?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fla-boy-16-allegedly-murdered-232831392.html

We should outlaw high school sports as well, maybe all sports.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/27/high-school-basketball-player-collapses-at-practic/

https://patch.com/new-jersey/holmdel-hazlet/holmdel-high-lacrosse-player-collapses-during-game-rutgers

Clearly, if the standard is "One Life", we have a lot of work to  do.

No, one life is not worth the freedoms and rights of everyone else.  Even if that life is mine.

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

I stated my position much earlier in this thread, and I don't want to repeat myself, But I think the "Save One Life" argument absurd.  I guess we should  make baseball bats illegal?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fla-boy-16-allegedly-murdered-232831392.html

We should outlaw high school sports as well, maybe all sports.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/27/high-school-basketball-player-collapses-at-practic/

https://patch.com/new-jersey/holmdel-hazlet/holmdel-high-lacrosse-player-collapses-during-game-rutgers

Clearly, if the standard is "One Life", we have a lot of work to  do.

No, one life is not worth the freedoms and rights of everyone else.  Even if that life is mine.

You clearly haven't read the thread or how the discussion has gone which is fine, but that was a very specific question to Rico with regard to a weapon. Baseball bats aren't weapons, sports aren't weapons. Guns are weapons with the propose being to cause injury and harm. 

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rico

rico

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Funny as that may I know you weren't actually saying that applies to this discussion other than where Rico tried to make the absurd claim that speeding is a criminal offense. 

I have seen a few absurdities in this thread myself.

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rico

rico

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah, no doubt. Arguing speeding is a criminal offense and arguing bombs are legal are both incredibly absurd. 

Whatever........argue your politics all you want.  Ain't gonna change my thinking.  Nuff said.

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Reacher

Reacher

Posted
Posted

Thanks to this thread, I have been doing a little more reading / research on the topic of gun violence. 

Was surprised to hear Switzerland has the third highest level of gun ownership in the world (behind the US and Yemen) yet has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. If guns are solely meant to kill, this is a massive contradiction. 

Furthermore, military grade weapons are often kept in people's homes. This is thought to be the reason why Germany never invaded Switzerland. Again, this seems to be at odds with the the concept of an "assault weapons" ban. 

Since 1600, boys (and girls since 1991) starting at age 13 practice shooting and participate in national shooting events. 

Gun ownership is considered patriotic. 

 :coffee:

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Reacher said:

Thanks to this thread, I have been doing a little more reading / research on the topic of gun violence. 

Was surprised to hear Switzerland has the third highest level of gun ownership in the world (behind the US and Yemen) yet has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. If guns are solely meant to kill, this is a massive contradiction. 

Furthermore, military grade weapons are often kept in people's homes. This is thought to be the reason why Germany never invaded Switzerland. Again, this seems to be at odds with the the concept of an "assault weapons" ban. 

Since 1600, boys (and girls since 1991) starting at age 13 practice shooting and participate in national shooting events. 

Gun ownership is considered patriotic. 

 :coffee:

In all fairness and being direct with you, I think you are researching only to try to find those articles that support your leanings and beliefs, instead of researching objectively, to look at the issues broadly, to re-examine your own beliefs or positions on the topic.

There is a multitude of studies on the correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, including the theories of the "weapon substitution effect" and the "weapon instrumentality effect."

Here are a few articles.

http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/jpj_firearm_ownership.pdf

This one is from the center for juvenile and criminal justice, 2016, it examines data from 1,197 US counties to understand the correlation in different types of violent crimes. "Examining violent crime, homicide, rape, robbery, and assault for 1,997 counties in the United States, the findings indicate that increased prevalence of firearms was associated with increased violent crime, homicide, rape, robbery, and assault. The results of this study suggest that a decrease in prevalence of firearms has the potential to decrease violent crime in the United States." If you read through it you'll find it's pretty thorough, with all kinds of controls and variables. As firearm prevalence increased homicide and other violent crime increased. This is just one of many such comprehensive studies.

Here's another objective study, from the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, on the relationship between population-level firearm ownership in states and homicides and violent crime perpetration. It analyzed state-level household firearm ownership across and criminal perpetration data for all 50 states for 2001-02 and 04 (as the years then with available state-level firearm ownership data).

"Conclusions: The findings do not support the hypothesis that higher population firearm ownership rates reduce firearm-associited criminal perpetration. On the contrary, evidence shows that states with higher levels of firearm ownership have an increased risk for violent crimes perpetrated with a firearm. Public health stakeholders should consider the outcomes associated with private firearm ownership." and from the study

"Higher rates of firearm ownership were positively associated with rates of firearm-related assault, with each quintile exhibiting a significantly increased risk relative to the lowest, referent quintile. Relative to the states in the lowest quintile of ownership (i.e., the lowest firearm ownership category), states in the highest quintile had a rate of firearm-related assaults that was 6.8 times higher. Likewise, higher rates of firearm ownership were associated with significantly increased rates of firearm-related robbery across the second, third, and fourth quintilesf." There's lots of actual data here, and this is just one such comprehensive study.

For example, this 2015 article on yet another study, reflecting states with the top rates of gun possession have 3 times the rate of gun murders. https://www.thetrace.org/2015/06/new-study-is-latest-to-find-that-higher-rates-of-gun-ownership-lead-to-higher-rates-of-violent-crime/ 

Of if you really want to look at the US in comparison with the rest of the world, here's a 2017 article with the data from the U of Washington's database, which tracks lives lost in every country, every year, by every cause of death. How the US actually ranks here, and how gun ownership and the ease of access to guns correlates, is pretty clear.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/11/06/562323131/gun-violence-comparing-the-u-s-with-other-countries

Will you read those articles and reconsider your position? 

As an aside, as I've said many times in this thread, notwithstanding these articles I am not advocating taking away the right of people to buy a handgun for their perceived need for self-defense, defense of the home, or to buy a rifle for hunting, etc. What I and others in this thread have been trying to discuss are reasonable limitations, access limitations, age limitations, etc., on the ability to buy what are clearly weapons designed to kill as many people as possible over a short time. We all get there are distinctions between legal definitions of assault rifle and semi-automatic rifle. We all get there are legitimate reasons for purchasing some of these weapons. We also get, however, that there are types of semi-automatic rifles with high capacity magazines and/or the capability of easy modification, with easy access including to 18-year old kids, etc., ,that are contributing to the glaringly obvious problem of kids dying in schools every year, of multiple mass shootings of the type you do not see like this in other developed countries, and we're trying to find ways to address the problem, that include limiting access to such weapons. 

 

 

 

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted

I am very in favor of Switzerland's gun laws. It is 100% true they have very high gun ownership rates, but it is also 100% true that it's really hard to be allowed to get a carry permit (typically would be job related) and that you have to go through a similar purchase process for ammo as you do for buying the gun. 

I'm sure you didn't read all that and just leave it out on purposes, right?

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