Jump to content

IU Officially Mentioned in FBI Probe


bstall76

Recommended Posts

CBSports reached out to Crean:

CBS Sports also reached out to former Indiana coach Tom Crean, who spoke on the record. Without a team to coach, Crean has no one to answer to. It's an important distinction between him and others who asked not to be named. 

"Any time something like this comes out there's a complete 'wow' factor to it, especially when you're seeing names and numbers," Crean said. "It's sad on many levels and it's sickening at the core of it. It really is. And at the same time, when you're involved in it, as long as someone like me has been or others are, you know that is not even potentially close to the only instance where these things could have or did happen. You'd love to say, 'This is a really isolated situation,' but I think anyone that's in this knows that it's not. You could be probably be changing a lot of names and you could be changing on all different levels. You could be putting another name here, another name there."

http://www.hoosiersportsnation.com/index.php?/topic/1249-iu-officially-mentioned-in-fbi-probe/&page=4

The article is worth the read in the context of this thread

"There's no chance," a coach from a top-25 program said in reference to Bennett partaking in any kind of cheating. "None. None. None." 

Malcolm Brogdon's mother has already gone on the record to discredit the allegation. In doing so, she brings to light the reality that just because some players' names are on a supposed expense report, it doesn't convict them or mean their programs are doomed for NCAA discipline. But the point is, a lot of coaches now don't want speak out against this issue publicly for fear of it coming back to bite them. Maybe they had a player take a few meetings with agents and had meals paid for. (If so, the coaches don't want to be seen in the future as hypocrites, even if they had no knowledge of such behavior.) 

"You look at Malcolm, the coaches didn't set that up," one Big 12 coach said. "The coaches didn't get Malcolm because of that. The big difference is if you utilized Andy Miller in the recruiting process to get [a player]."

You can easily make the argument that this is a dumb rule in the first place, but it's a rule nonetheless and it's one that could impact some coaches and programs going forward. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 139
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

No, you're looking backwards again. When IU hired him, what had he done? What had he been accused of? What had he been implicated in? Nothing.

Regardless, go read the yahoo article I posted above, Yahoo's review of hundreds of pages relating to this investigation, specifically naming multiple schools. IU - nowhere. What does that tell you? Why are you so keen on saying IU or Crean must've been dirty, when there is zero evidence of that, at this point? 

That article was the one that broke this whole thing open again, already read it.  Those records provide even less evidence of wrongdoing on the part of any programs than Dawkins’ e-mails, as no coaches are mentioned.  But of course, I also agree with you that it’s likely those programs had knowledge of what was going on.  

That’s the thing, EVERYONE was involved in this, including IU.  Johnson likely cheated to get Vonleh and Martin likely cheated to get Bryant, just like Izzo likely cheated to get Bridges, Self likely cheated to get Jackson, etc., etc.  Doesn’t make sense to claim Dawkins’ e-mails constitute “zero evidence” implicating IU, and then point to those records as implicating other programs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The trade proposed by the Miller agency to Martin was we get you Bowen, and you get OG and/or Bryant to sign with us.  Obviously this never happened. On IU's side they would have needed to convince OG and/or Bryant to do that.  I think CTC would have seen right through that and not allowed it if it ever got that far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

That article was the one that broke this whole thing open again, already read it.  Those records provide even less evidence of wrongdoing on the part of any programs than Dawkins’ e-mails, as no coaches are mentioned.  But of course, I also agree with you that it’s likely those programs had knowledge of what was going on.  

That’s the thing, EVERYONE was involved in this, including IU.  Johnson likely cheated to get Vonleh and Martin likely cheated to get Bryant, just like Izzo likely cheated to get Bridges, Self likely cheated to get Jackson, etc., etc.  Doesn’t make sense to claim Dawkins’ e-mails constitute “zero evidence” implicating IU, and then point to those records as implicating other programs.

Dude, there is zero evidence that IU did anything wrong. If it comes out that IU was, that will be a different situation then, but the "including IU" view, the "Johnson likely cheated to get Vonleh and Martin likely cheated to get Bryant" is your worry mongering. There's no evidence for that -- none. Worry mongering is not evidence. If IU was implicated in any of those documents IU's name would be all over those articles, that's the "fact" of where we are now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finishing my internet rounds..... up to 50 schools are being looked at.... and at least half of this year's top 16 NCAAT teams are being scrutinized. 

A lot of intertwining as well.  With coaches such as Martin moving from one school to another.... currently working at South Carolina, which is one of the 50 schools being looked at very hard.

Another name we are familiar with, that really has not been mentioned much.... Edmund Sumner. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Dude, there is zero evidence that IU did anything wrong. If it comes out that IU was, that will be a different situation then, but the "including IU" view, the "Johnson likely cheated to get Vonleh and Martin likely cheated to get Bryant" is your worry mongering. There's no evidence for that -- none. Worry mongering is not evidence. If IU was implicated in any of those documents IU's name would be all over those articles, that's the "fact" of where we are now.

The situation with Vonleh and Bryant is my assumption, that’s true.  Hopefully the FBI doesnt have anything related to those recruitments, although I think it’s pretty clear they were dirty.  But IU is implicated by Dawkins’ e-mails far more than any blueblood has been implicated up to this point, and that’s a fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The situation with Vonleh and Bryant is my assumption, that’s true.  Hopefully the FBI doesnt have anything related to those recruitments, although I think it’s pretty clear they were dirty.  But IU is implicated by Dawkins’ e-mails far more than any blueblood has been implicated up to this point, and that’s a fact.

But the emails you refer to do not indicate IU doing anything, at all. That's fact. This is all worry mongering. There's just nothing here. And no I'm not "naive." It's of course possible, as wide spread as this agent bs was and is, that IU's name will appear at some point. But as of now? Nothing. And the simple "fact" is that Crean was running as clean a program as possible -- that is what he was hired to do, and that is what he did. That is why Crean repeatedly backed off recruitments. During those recruitments, people wondered why, and repeatedly Crean would allude to assistants at other programs, to things "going on," etc. We backed off. That's fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The situation with Vonleh and Bryant is my assumption, that’s true.  Hopefully the FBI doesnt have anything related to those recruitments, although I think it’s pretty clear they were dirty.  But IU is implicated by Dawkins’ e-mails far more than any blueblood has been implicated up to this point, and that’s a fact.

I’m not one who is going to bury my head in the sand.  I’m concerned.  But that’s not a fact.  All you have to do is look at Sean Miller and Arizona.  Pitino and Louisville.  The Jackson kid and Kansas.  Those three are in a worse spot than IU is right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I’m not one who is going to bury my head in the sand.  I’m concerned.  But that’s not a fact.  All you have to do is look at Sean Miller and Arizona.  Pitino and Louisville.  The Jackson kid and Kansas.  Those three are in a worse spot than IU is right now.

Yeah, obviously wasn’t referring to Zona or UL, they’re done.  Was talking about UK, Duke, UNC, and Kansas.  I think more will come out with Jackson and Kansas eventually, but at this point, they haven’t had any coaches implicated like IU has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

If Crean didn’t want any part of dirty recruiting, why did he hire two slimeballs as his head recruiters?  Crean wasn’t dumb or naive.

Are you suggesting that when Knight hired Norm Ellenberger, a proven cheater, he was looking to cheat?  Knight wasn't dumb or naive. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The situation with Vonleh and Bryant is my assumption, that’s true.  Hopefully the FBI doesnt have anything related to those recruitments, although I think it’s pretty clear they were dirty.  But IU is implicated by Dawkins’ e-mails far more than any blueblood has been implicated up to this point, and that’s a fact.

I have no idea where you are coming from on this. Schools like Kentucky and Kansas have their players listed by name in these documents as having taken money. Josh Jackson, Bam Adebayo, Kevin Knox. Players that either currently play for those programs, or recently played over the past couple of years, listed by name accepting cash or other improper benefits. Self and Calipari aren't going down unless more information comes out, but there should be at least some forfeited games and minor sanctions for those programs due to playing ineligible players.

IU is mentioned regarding a potential deal where Brian Bowen would play for IU, in return for OG and Bryant signing with ASM. Brian Bowen did not play for IU. OG and Bryant did not sign with ASM. So what is IU "implicated" in? There is NOTHING currently out there that will lead to sanctions or forfeited games for IU.

I don't love our name being anywhere near this. I don't love Archie's brother being at the center of it. I don't know whether IU is clean or not. But you are jumping to ridiculous conclusions that are not based in reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

.......but at this point, they haven’t had any coaches implicated like IU has.

Implicate - show (someone) to be involved in a crime

IU hasn’t had any coaches shown to be involved in a crime.  The only thing that’s come out is an email from an agent to Martin, dangling a recruit.  We got out of that recruitment very early, and OG nor Bryant signed with that agency.  How do you get any of IU’s coaches have been implicated?  Is there more to come?  Who knows, but nothing that’s come out so far implicates anyone at IU. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this is truly the tip of the iceberg, my only concerns going forward are this

1. Archie's time as assistant at Arizona and O$U

2. A few players that "fell into our lap" seemingly

3. Obviously Chuck Martin and Kenny Johnson

Side note and question.  Even though Kenny Johnson has been relieved, along with the rest of UofL's staff, has he actually been named by the FBI or NCAA as having actually done anything wrong.  https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/11/22/louisville-cardinals-basketball-associate-head-coach-kenny-johnson-fired/763295001/

Help me out.  From what I know, Pitino was the Adidas contact person, not Johnson.  Johnson went from $200,000 at IU to $375000 at UofL, then to $550,000.  Most of us would call that a good personal business/financial decision.  I think the smear campaign is a little premature on KJ, given the information I am aware of.  If there is more, send it my way.  Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

That article was the one that broke this whole thing open again, already read it.  Those records provide even less evidence of wrongdoing on the part of any programs than Dawkins’ e-mails, as no coaches are mentioned.  But of course, I also agree with you that it’s likely those programs had knowledge of what was going on.  

That’s the thing, EVERYONE was involved in this, including IU.  Johnson likely cheated to get Vonleh and Martin likely cheated to get Bryant, just like Izzo likely cheated to get Bridges, Self likely cheated to get Jackson, etc., etc.  Doesn’t make sense to claim Dawkins’ e-mails constitute “zero evidence” implicating IU, and then point to those records as implicating other programs.

You don’t even understand the situation at hand. There is a difference between using Dawkins to recruit a player and a player taking money/meals from Dawkins because he wants to sign them when they leave college. Some schools will be implicated in recruiting violations by allowing Dawkins/ASM to hand deliver recruits to their programs by paying the player and securing representation agreements. The rest like MSU are going to have eligibility issues if they don’t suspend their players for taking money but not simply because money was taken. 

IU doesn’t have any ties to ASM other than being cold called about a player who never set foot on campus. Neither Bryant nor Vonleh were ASM clients and there has been zero evidence their recruitments were dirty. It’s a well known fact Vonleh wasn’t happy at IU so why would he feel compelled to keep this a secret? You’re simply making stuff up based on your own imagination and zero facts. Color me surprised 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

If this is truly the tip of the iceberg, my only concerns going forward are this

1. Archie's time as assistant at Arizona and O$U

2. A few players that "fell into our lap" seemingly

3. Obviously Chuck Martin and Kenny Johnson

Side note and question.  Even though Kenny Johnson has been relieved, along with the rest of UofL's staff, has he actually been named by the FBI or NCAA as having actually done anything wrong.  https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/11/22/louisville-cardinals-basketball-associate-head-coach-kenny-johnson-fired/763295001/

Help me out.  From what I know, Pitino was the Adidas contact person, not Johnson.  Johnson went from $200,000 at IU to $375000 at UofL, then to $550,000.  Most of us would call that a good personal business/financial decision.  I think the smear campaign is a little premature on KJ, given the information I am aware of.  If there is more, send it my way.  Thanks

I live in Southern Indiana and work in Louisville.  There were two coaches involved in the Las Vegas meeting.  One is known to be Jordan Fair.  It's widely believed that Johnson is the unnamed coach that is referenced.  Pitino's involvement was unrelated to the specific Las Vegas meeting that took place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

If this is truly the tip of the iceberg, my only concerns going forward are this

1. Archie's time as assistant at Arizona and O$U

2. A few players that "fell into our lap" seemingly

3. Obviously Chuck Martin and Kenny Johnson

Side note and question.  Even though Kenny Johnson has been relieved, along with the rest of UofL's staff, has he actually been named by the FBI or NCAA as having actually done anything wrong.  https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/11/22/louisville-cardinals-basketball-associate-head-coach-kenny-johnson-fired/763295001/

Help me out.  From what I know, Pitino was the Adidas contact person, not Johnson.  Johnson went from $200,000 at IU to $375000 at UofL, then to $550,000.  Most of us would call that a good personal business/financial decision.  I think the smear campaign is a little premature on KJ, given the information I am aware of.  If there is more, send it my way.  Thanks

Even if KJ cheated at Louisville it doesn’t mean he did at IU. Pitino paid him a lot of money to bring in recruits and perhaps the pressure to produce and earn his keep got the best of him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys can keep sticking your heads in the sand, but Crean had two assistants that were clearly dirty.  Crean didn’t even bother to deny anything in the statement he made.  Every single major program was engaged in this stuff... If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you.  All we can do now is hope the FBI doesn’t have any more dirt on IU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

You guys can keep sticking your heads in the sand, but Crean had two assistants that were clearly dirty.  Crean didn’t even bother to deny anything in the statement he made.  Every single major program was engaged in this stuff... If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you.  All we can do now is hope the FBI doesn’t have any more dirt on IU.

Oh, you have clear evidence?  Please link.  I clearly don't have my head in the sand, as I just listed my concerns.  But please link the evidence or just stop.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

Implicate - show (someone) to be involved in a crime

IU hasn’t had any coaches shown to be involved in a crime.  The only thing that’s come out is an email from an agent to Martin, dangling a recruit.  We got out of that recruitment very early, and OG not Bryant signed with that agency.  How do you get any of IU’s coaches have been implicated?  Is there more to come?  Who knows, but nothing that’s come out so far implicates anyone at IU. 

Excellent post!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Finishing my internet rounds..... up to 50 schools are being looked at.... and at least half of this year's top 16 NCAAT teams are being scrutinized. 

A lot of intertwining as well.  With coaches such as Martin moving from one school to another.... currently working at South Carolina, which is one of the 50 schools being looked at very hard.

Another name we are familiar with, that really has not been mentioned much.... Edmund Sumner. 

Sumner was a surprise. Another one that was just plain strange was Fred Van Fleet. Unheralded 3 star from Illinois and he ends up getting $ as well as his stepdad? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm getting the feeling that some are making a mountain out of a molehill.  It's concerning to see IU's name in relation to this, but I'm willing to speculate that nearly every D1 program will be connected some way or another.

Here are the only "facts" we know:

- Dawkins pitches to Martin (actually, all we know is that he reported to his boss that he did) a quid pro quo recruit/player steering 

- Dawkins also pitched this to at least two (possibly more but unsubstantiated) other schools/coaches, indicating he was shopping it around

- IU gets out of the Bowen recruitment early, and neither OG nor Bryant sign with that agency

The chain of events would suggest once IU was contacted, they backed off due to the nature of the recruitment.  Who knows how it actually happened, but I see nothing to be concerned about with this, other than the fact that Dawkins thought Martin was someone worth contacting for such an arrangement.

I don't know how you conclude IU is guilty from that.  It'd be like being arrested because someone once asked you to buy drugs and you said no but were arrested simply because you were asked.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

You guys can keep sticking your heads in the sand, but Crean had two assistants that were clearly dirty.  Crean didn’t even bother to deny anything in the statement he made.  Every single major program was engaged in this stuff... If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you.  All we can do now is hope the FBI doesn’t have any more dirt on IU.

So, based on your logic, if we're walking down the street, and I hear some sketchy guy quietly offer drugs to you, then I should arrest you? Even though you never bought or used them? I mean he offered you a deal! If a prostitute approaches you and you walk away, were you soliciting a prostitute? Your logic is so flawed. If an agent is trying to cut deals with UK, Vanderbilt, Arizona, etc...why would he not TRY to cut a deal with IU...who had 2 potential first rounders? It would be really stupid not to. There aren't many schools with multiple first round picks in the same year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we should be worried a bit, but not really as worried as most other big basketball schools. The Dawkins/Martin thing about Bowen doesn’t worry me because we weren’t even in the Bowen recruitment and none of our guys signed with the Miller agency. 

What does worry me? Like most others, Kenny Johnson, Chuck Martin, Noah Vonleh, Thomas Bryant and Troy Williams. I don’t think Crean was in the game of playing players 5/6 figures to get them. I just don’t believe he did that. I think he stayed as clean as he could while trying to remain competitive  

But where I think maybe IU had to pay to play is in the visit department. One of the reports said schools routinely paid 5k just to a top kid to visit, and we had visits from kids like Bryant, Maker, Whitehead, Bridges, and more. I’d guess we had to muddy the waters a bit to get them on campus. 

I’ve posted this before, but I’ve always wondered about that MSU game in 2015 (I think). Remember the time, IU had missed the tourney the previous season and was squarely on the bubble. Crean was getting absolutely hammered by fans, sometimes booed, and we had Hartman starting at center and no big signed for the next year. All of the sudden Thomas Bryant (who we had been recruiting) and Thon Maker show up at the game. My recollection is that these were not visits that everyone knew about (fans and media), and it was kind of surprise that they were there. With everything that’s come out, I’m just kind of assuming some kids got paid from someone, agents, shoe companies, etc., to show up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...