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FBI wiretaps show Sean Miller discussing $100k payments.


milehiiu

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I'm sure it's been asked but all day long yesterday in group texts with friends,etc...the one common theme was why? Why would you risk everything? Why would you be dumb enough to actually speak so openly? I guess the thing to me is that he didn't fear getting in trouble at all. To act so open and brazen?

I'm sure Arizona attorneys are trying to figure out a way (without egg on their face for that contract) to force a settlement. My guess is he'll be gone as early as tonight but def this week. 

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47 minutes ago, Mac said:

I don't know what the "error in language" is in this contract, but a mistake in a contract is only a defense when both parties are mistaken about something material. It's not a defense for one party to say that the contact didn't end up saying what they thought it was supposed to say.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistake_(contract_law)

 

 

Correct.

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53 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I don't think it's implausible that all parties here are equally dirty and complicit.  UA signs a contract that on the surface appears to be a mistake.  CSM is guaranteed  money DOUBLE the money if fired for cause(ie, got caught in the pay for play).  UA  gets it's recruits.  Now that the FBI has uncovered the scheme, they have "'plausible deniability."  They had no clue it was happening and appear to be the 'white knights" coming to the forefront to rescue the school's image.  CSM is still enriched.  UA is enriched.  Ayton is enriched.  The only loser is college BB.  One can only hope this recruiting sewer is finally fixed.  

PS:  Unlike the article where the journalist feels sorry for the players---GIVE ME A BREAK!  They are all dirty and deserve the bad press they are getting.

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So what did Ayton say to ZONA administration to stay eligible? I'd get rid of  this guy  ASAP.  They won't be eligible for the NCAA with him playing.

The NCAA has a BIG problem, and if they just sit on their hands like they are now, they are finished as a viable governing body for college basketball.  (That may be a good thing.)

There are many teams that would make the field that will be ineligible because of the "bought" players.  The whole tournament is a mystery.  Will we find out after the champ is crowned that they and 8 or 9 other teams are ineligible?  Do we start calling it "The Cheaters Playoff"?

So the NCAA just takes ZONA's word for it that he is eligible?

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1 hour ago, Mac said:

I don't know what the "error in language" is in this contract, but a mistake in a contract is only a defense when both parties are mistaken about something material. It's not a defense for one party to say that the contact didn't end up saying what they thought it was supposed to say.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistake_(contract_law)

 

 

You may not realize that Bob, like me, is an attorney. The mistake defense is one often litigated, in the context of the parol evidence rule, which generally (with exceptions) excludes evidence outside the "four corners" of the written contract itself. State law, state evidence rules, and state judicial opinions also differ on the application of the defense. It's not as simple as pulling up a wiki link.

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8 minutes ago, slojoe said:

So what did Ayton say to ZONA administration to stay eligible? I'd get rid of  this guy  ASAP.  They won't be eligible for the NCAA with him playing.

The NCAA has a BIG problem, and if they just sit on their hands like they are now, they are finished as a viable governing body for college basketball.  (That may be a good thing.)

There are many teams that would make the field that will be ineligible because of the "bought" players.  The whole tournament is a mystery.  Will we find out after the champ is crowned that they and 8 or 9 other teams are ineligible?  Do we start calling it "The Cheaters Playoff"?

So the NCAA just takes ZONA's word for it that he is eligible?

I'm guessing they figured they're likely screwed whether he does or doesn't play.  Maybe they're banking on the ineptness of the NCAA.  I still don't have a lot of faith that they will hand down major punishments in all of this until I see it.

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25 minutes ago, slojoe said:

So what did Ayton say to ZONA administration to stay eligible? I'd get rid of  this guy  ASAP.  They won't be eligible for the NCAA with him playing.

The NCAA has a BIG problem, and if they just sit on their hands like they are now, they are finished as a viable governing body for college basketball.  (That may be a good thing.)

There are many teams that would make the field that will be ineligible because of the "bought" players.  The whole tournament is a mystery.  Will we find out after the champ is crowned that they and 8 or 9 other teams are ineligible?  Do we start calling it "The Cheaters Playoff"?

So the NCAA just takes ZONA's word for it that he is eligible?

Every day I see and hear people who are in charge of Athletic Departments, Universities say things that just blow the mind. Hasn't any of these men/women learned a thing from Penn St, Baylor, Louisville.....on how not to handle. Mind boggling. The scary part is I know they can't be this inept on how to handle. 

Louisville won't be heard from for a few years. You can add Arizona to the mix. Others are coming. One thing I thought would be funny is to see how much NCAA sponsored merchandise they put out after title....i.e. tshirts, hats whatever....because they might already know the title will be coming down.

 

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1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Every day I see and hear people who are in charge of Athletic Departments, Universities say things that just blow the mind. Hasn't any of these men/women learned a thing from Penn St, Baylor, Louisville.....on how not to handle. Mind boggling. The scary part is I know they can't be this inept on how to handle. 

Louisville won't be heard from for a few years. You can add Arizona to the mix. Others are coming. One thing I thought would be funny is to see how much NCAA sponsored merchandise they put out after title....i.e. tshirts, hats whatever....because they might already know the title will be coming down.

 

If there's one big takeaway from the FBI probe, it is that the NCAA's self-enforcement method just flat out didn't work.  There's too much money at stake.

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21 hours ago, milehiiu said:

FBI has the goods on several Head Coaches. Via wiretaps.  I am convinced of that.  They waited months for Sean Miller to come forward. And he didn't.... so now they let the goods out on him.  Don't be surprised if other coaches turn themselves in.... just to lessen the sentences. 

As an aside.  I have no problem with the FBI listening into my phone calls.  They probably don't..... as my smart tv's and my Google Home already listen in.  I don't have a smart phone.... but my wife does..   We have nothing to hide.    LOL.

I think this is a great point, that should get another look.  Months ago, when this story broke, the FBI indicated it was the tip of the iceberg, and indicated there were many more involved.  They even went so far as to say something along the lies of "It would be much better for you to call us as opposed to us calling you".  My guess is Sean called their no-so-bluff and is paying the price.  I also  suspect there are other coaches not sleeping so well right now.

Also, I get that maybe unreimbursed  meals are not that big of a deal, but in the past, the NCAA required repayment of the benefits and usually a suspension.  Will Knox, or Bridges,or any of those players be forced to sit even a game by their respective universities?

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An oh, by the way, comment.  Spurred by Muddy's comments, above.  I don't know how many of you were able to see the AZ/Oregon game on Saturday night.  Bill Walton did the game... and started out by saying how disgusted he was with the morality of the college game, specifically recent events.  He went on to say that he would rather be riding his bike up the side of a mountain than doing the game last night.

Now..... think about this for a moment.  This is the same Bill Walton, who as a player at UCLA admitted to hanging out at Sam Gilbert's house. Preferring to stay there, than go home. And considered Sam as a mentor/father figure.  This is the same Sam Gilbert, who is well known for offering cars, money and many other benefits to UCLA players before and after Bill Walton played at UCLA. 

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5 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

An oh, by the way, comment.  Spurred by Muddy's comments, above.  I don't know how many of you were able to see the AZ/Oregon game on Saturday night.  Bill Walton did the game... and started out by saying how disgusted he was with the morality of the college game, specifically recent events.  He went on to say that he would rather be riding his bike up the side of a mountain than doing the game last night.

Now..... think about this for a moment.  This is the same Bill Walton, who as a player at UCLA admitted to hanging out at Sam Gilbert's house. Preferring to stay there, than go home. And considered Sam as a mentor/father figure.  This is the same Sam Gilbert, who is well known for offering cars, money and many other benefits to UCLA players before and after Bill Walton played at UCLA. 

Yep. He's so beloved (why I'm not sure) but let's not forget the entire UCLA run under Wooden and Gilbert was illegal. Walton probably doesn't remember it so in his eyes he did nothing wrong. 

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6 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

An oh, by the way, comment.  Spurred by Muddy's comments, above.  I don't know how many of you were able to see the AZ/Oregon game on Saturday night.  Bill Walton did the game... and started out by saying how disgusted he was with the morality of the college game, specifically recent events.  He went on to say that he would rather be riding his bike up the side of a mountain than doing the game last night.

Now..... think about this for a moment.  This is the same Bill Walton, who as a player at UCLA admitted to hanging out at Sam Gilbert's house. Preferring to stay there, than go home. And considered Sam as a mentor/father figure.  This is the same Sam Gilbert, who is well known for offering cars, money and many other benefits to UCLA players before and after Bill Walton played at UCLA. 

Didn't Walton once say he made more money at UCLA than the NBA in one of his rants?

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1 hour ago, slojoe said:

So what did Ayton say to ZONA administration to stay eligible? I'd get rid of  this guy  ASAP.  They won't be eligible for the NCAA with him playing.

The NCAA has a BIG problem, and if they just sit on their hands like they are now, they are finished as a viable governing body for college basketball.  (That may be a good thing.)

There are many teams that would make the field that will be ineligible because of the "bought" players.  The whole tournament is a mystery.  Will we find out after the champ is crowned that they and 8 or 9 other teams are ineligible?  Do we start calling it "The Cheaters Playoff"?

So the NCAA just takes ZONA's word for it that he is eligible?

His family has hired an attorney.  The attorney published a message saying neither Ayton or his family have done anything wrong. 

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I think Sean Miller is the smallest of the bigger name coaches that will be in trouble.  I think they started with him because of that.  I’m waiting for Cal, K, Izzo, Self, to say how disgusted they are only to be in hot water weeks later.  I’d be shocked if any more comes out for a while though.  Either right after the season is over or right before next season is when there will be some turmoil if I had to guess.

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33 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

I think Sean Miller is the smallest of the bigger name coaches that will be in trouble.  I think they started with him because of that.  I’m waiting for Cal, K, Izzo, Self, to say how disgusted they are only to be in hot water weeks later.  I’d be shocked if any more comes out for a while though.  Either right after the season is over or right before next season is when there will be some turmoil if I had to guess.

I'd love to see that. Already heard sanctimonious chatter from both Izzo and K.  I'm skeptical, but hopeful.  Time to eliminate an unfair recruiting advantage.

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On 2/23/2018 at 11:59 PM, Astrosws20 said:

One thing I don't like is that if it's true that nobody is clean then wouldn't the FBI turn to Archie soon? If they nab his brother wouldn't it be natural to immediately assign someone to keep an eye on Archie?

In terms of wiretaps, emails, etc. I think the FBI only has documents dating back to the last three years. While I don't feel good about it, I think the only way that Archie could get caught in anything that happened at Zona is if the FBI got access to everything Sean Miller has been doing the past 7+ years, or if they offered Sean a nice plea deal to give out info on people who worked on his staff during his time there. Otherwise, I don't think the FBI could target Archie without having any hard evidence to lead to a separate investigation. Those documents they would obtain would be through illegal measures and wouldn't hold up in court.

I think when all is said and done, we'll all realize that one way or another, every D1 program is giving kids benefits to woo someone to their program. Look at how many players & programs are being exposed by A SINGLE AGENT. Imagine if the FBI had access to email & phone calls regarding the recruitments of the all Top 100 players over the last ten years. 

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3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

SIAP -- Here's an article that outlines the full timeline of events and identifies every school and player currently publicly known to have been identified in the FBI probe:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22555512/explaining-ncaa-college-basketball-scandal-players-coaches-agents

 

The thing I noticed about this article is that IU is not mentioned in the article at all.

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4 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You may not realize that Bob, like me, is an attorney. The mistake defense is one often litigated, in the context of the parol evidence rule, which generally (with exceptions) excludes evidence outside the "four corners" of the written contract itself. State law, state evidence rules, and state judicial opinions also differ on the application of the defense. It's not as simple as pulling up a wiki link.

I've been greatly amused watching people argue legalese with the two of you recently. 

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38 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The thing I noticed about this article is that IU is not mentioned in the article at all.

There's a lot of premature and unnecessary hand-wringing about IU in fan forums. It's possible there could be something but I see no benefit in worrying about it at this stage in the game.  Personally, I expect not much if anything related to IU when it's all out there.

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