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18-19 Lineup(just for fun)


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1 hour ago, hoosierBGH said:

Morgan will probably play some at the 5 but again, Thompson, Forrester, and Davis will also share minutes at the 5 and two of those can only play at the 5. Hunter will likely spend some time at the 3&4 maybe even a little at the 2 if we don't land Romeo, Smith will play the 3 and 4, and Morgan will play 3, 4, and some at the 5. Our best lineup is with Morgan playing either the 3 or 4, with Smith playing the other and a mobile 5 that doesn't clog the lane on offense. The 3, 4 and to a lesser extent the 5 are interchangeable on the offensive end in Archie's offense but we will need a bigger body at the 5 on defense against bigger teams

Totally disagree. For one, in Archie's seven year career there is no evidence he wants to play big. I know some of it has been out of his control, but even this season the only game we had more than two forwards/bigs on the floor was briefly against MSU. We are going to play three guards. 

As far as best lineup, why isn't our best lineup Morgan and Smith at the 4 and 5? You're advocating our best lineup is one with very little spacing which is in direct opposition with how modern basketball is played. There's a reason Morgan got a ton better when he had space to operate. 

Our defensive problems this year, when we had them, weren't on the interior. 

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31 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

My personal opinion is that we have at least 2 transfers.  I see Green going and possibly Moore.  I don't know about Davis, he doesn't fit into the defensive scheme as mentioned above and he might want to play somewhere that can utilize his size and rim protecting.  

I also don't think we Romeo.  Depending on what the NBA does with the one and done, he might not even have to go to a school, but if he does, i see Kansas

Based on what I recently heard.... De'Ron is NOT transferring.  There was a rumor out there about his transferring. After checking it out... I got no one to confirm.

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51 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Two leaving is a stretch. Could happen but it's far from likely.  Saying at least two transfers implies maybe three or more. I don't see that at all. The future is bright.

I am not saying the future isn't bright.  But CAM doesn't play deep in his bench and not everyone fits with a pack line defense.  and with a pretty decent class coming in, i could see Green and 1 more leaving.  I say green because it just doesn't look like he enjoys playing.  Could be his demeanor or his reaction to playing for CAM.  don't know. 

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Totally disagree. For one, in Archie's seven year career there is no evidence he wants to play big. I know some of it has been out of his control, but even this season the only game we had more than two forwards/bigs on the floor was briefly against MSU. We are going to play three guards. 

As far as best lineup, why isn't our best lineup Morgan and Smith at the 4 and 5? You're advocating our best lineup is one with very little spacing which is in direct opposition with how modern basketball is played. There's a reason Morgan got a ton better when he had space to operate. 

Our defensive problems this year, when we had them, weren't on the interior. 

Most of his career Archie didn't have the bigs to play that many and still have backups including this year. However, at times Morgan, Smith, and McSwain were on the floor together and it was an effective lineup. You seem to be focusing on the offensive side and frankly the 4, and 5 will have a lot of interchangeability on the offensive end and someone 6'5" or taller will be spending a lot of time at the 3. Also, having Forrester( a taller Freddie McSwain) who is not a post up guy and especially Thompson who can knock down some shots and play a Max Bielfeldt type role won't clog up the lane.  It is on the defensive end where having someone at the 5 will be important. On defense Morgan is a good on ball defender in the post but he is even better playing off the post and coming to help. 

 

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56 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Based on what I recently heard.... De'Ron is NOT transferring.  There was a rumor out there about his transferring. After checking it out... I got no one to confirm.

If Davis was thinking of transferring, he wouldn't have been at Romeo's game last weekend, IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If Morgan has designs of a NBA career, he is going to need to show perimeter skills.  I see him playing a lot of 3 with Smith at the 4.

I don't see Morgan playing the 3 happening. That's not his game. On the perimeter he's a pick and pop guy. This isn't Crean's NBA Prep Camp anymore, Archie is here to win games, which to me is the conundrum for Morgan. IMO Archie isn't going to play him out of position to prep him for the NBA, he'll play him at the 5 if he thinks it gives IU the best chance to win games, which is why the G-League is an interesting option for him. In the G-League he gets to work on his "NBA game" while at IU he gets to work on his draft stock. Depends on which is more important to him. 

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7 minutes ago, hoosierBGH said:

Most of his career Archie didn't have the bigs to play that many and still have backups including this year. However, at times Morgan, Smith, and McSwain were on the floor together and it was an effective lineup. You seem to be focusing on the offensive side and frankly the 4, and 5 will have a lot of interchangeability on the offensive end and someone 6'5" or taller will be spending a lot of time at the 3. Also, having Forrester( a taller Freddie McSwain) who is not a post up guy and especially Thompson who can knock down some shots and play a Max Bielfeldt type role won't clog up the lane.  It is on the defensive end where having someone at the 5 will be important. On defense Morgan is a good on ball defender in the post but he is even better playing off the post and coming to help. 

 

When did we see that lineup? If we did it was EXTREMELY rare. I'm sure you've got examples since you remember it so clearly. 

I'm not only focusing on offense, on defense three bigs are hard to play with in today's game. They don't move well enough in a perimeter oriented game. 

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

When did we see that lineup? If we did it was EXTREMELY rare. I'm sure you've got examples since you remember it so clearly. 

I'm not only focusing on offense, on defense three bigs are hard to play with in today's game. They don't move well enough in a perimeter oriented game. 

You know, I failed to take notes every time I saw that lineup as I didn't realize at those times it would be so important for this lineup discussion. Off the top of my head though, the Purdue game and the 2nd MSU game plus all of the games where Freddie started because he played the 5 and Morgan played the 4. You are correct in that didn't happen often though since Morgan, Smith, and McSwain constituted out entire contingent of healthy viable players over 6'6" this year. It's kind of hard to do that very much when it only left Moore as the only tall back up for the 4 and 5. 

You'really need to read more carefully and not be so hung up on positions. I clearly specified that would be a lineup against big teams 2 posts ago and that lineup would not be 3 bigs, it would be one big at the 5 spot and two long, tall athletes at the 3 & 4. Morgan can guard a 3 or a 4, Smith can guard a 3 or 4, and both Thompson and Forrester are pretty mobile for the 5 spot. 

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1 hour ago, mchenry34 said:

Transferring was not Curtis Jones’ idea?

I'm going to guess yes & no.  I believe it was ultimately Curtis' decision, but I'm guessing that decision was accelerated by a lack of playing time and quite possibly feedback from the staff about future playing time and/or what was needed to increase playing time.

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4 hours ago, BGleas said:

I don't see Morgan playing the 3 happening. That's not his game. On the perimeter he's a pick and pop guy. This isn't Crean's NBA Prep Camp anymore, Archie is here to win games, which to me is the conundrum for Morgan. IMO Archie isn't going to play him out of position to prep him for the NBA, he'll play him at the 5 if he thinks it gives IU the best chance to win games, which is why the G-League is an interesting option for him. In the G-League he gets to work on his "NBA game" while at IU he gets to work on his draft stock. Depends on which is more important to him. 

Morgan can handle the ball well for someone his size.  He can pass.  He has the body to finish around the basket. He makes good decisions.   I see nothing from preventing him catching the ball on the wing, driving to the hoop, and creating offense for the team.  In my mind, playing the 3 does not necessarily mean someone that is settling for jump shots.

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47 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I'm going to guess yes & no.  I believe it was ultimately Curtis' decision, but I'm guessing that decision was accelerated by a lack of playing time and quite possibly feedback from the staff about future playing time and/or what was needed to increase playing time.

No need to guess.   You are spot on.

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3 hours ago, hoosierBGH said:

You know, I failed to take notes every time I saw that lineup as I didn't realize at those times it would be so important for this lineup discussion. Off the top of my head though, the Purdue game and the 2nd MSU game plus all of the games where Freddie started because he played the 5 and Morgan played the 4. You are correct in that didn't happen often though since Morgan, Smith, and McSwain constituted out entire contingent of healthy viable players over 6'6" this year. It's kind of hard to do that very much when it only left Moore as the only tall back up for the 4 and 5. 

You'really need to read more carefully and not be so hung up on positions. I clearly specified that would be a lineup against big teams 2 posts ago and that lineup would not be 3 bigs, it would be one big at the 5 spot and two long, tall athletes at the 3 & 4. Morgan can guard a 3 or a 4, Smith can guard a 3 or 4, and both Thompson and Forrester are pretty mobile for the 5 spot. 

Without going back to watch the game I can't swear that lineup didn't happen against Purdue, but I can swear that those three were the only 4 and 5 men who played and they played exactly 80 minutes. Any minute they were all three on the floor was a minute only one of them was and I really don't think we did that against Purdue. 

If you add up Moore, Hartman, Davis, Smith, McSwain and Morgan's minutes you get eerily close to the 2510 minutes played at the 4 and 5 this year. It's almost like Archie pretty much viewed those guys as only playing 4 and 5. 

It's really weird to tell someone to not get hung up on positions in a discussion of lineups. Especially when youre advocating we play guys at a position they've never played in Archie's system. Will we at some point see Smith or Morgan at the three? Maybe, but there's nothing to support that being a regular feature on our team. 

Even if Smith and Morgan can guard a three, and there's plenty that would be too quick for them, we would clog up the offense with 3 bigs. I know you don't want to call those two bigs, but the vast majority of their shots are within 15'. It also is inevitably taking someone like Hunter, McRoberts, a grad transfer or Romeo off the floor. 

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For fun going with a lineup I think will be most impactful.

Phinisee

Green (I don't count my Romeo chickens before they hatch)

McRoberts

Smith

Morgan

Adding to some of the 5 player commentary, As Muckracker said on page 1, I think people are selling Forrester short.

Watched this game Sat 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=westtown+pa+basketball&qpvt=westtown+pa+basketball&view=detail&mid=D1CAE36B717F0BB38F37D1CAE36B717F0BB38F37&&FORM=VRDGAR

came away impressed, see a mobile, above the rim player that can stretch the D. a lot of tools for the coaching staff to work with. Also, I hadn't realized that last year he practiced daily against Mo Bamba when he was only 6'8". Now he is considered 6'10"?

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From a run and gun perspective, or a smaller/fast paced lineup....

1. Phinisee

2. Romeo

3. Hunter

4. Smith

5. Morgan

 

This lineup seems like it could potentially be a crunch time group, maybe a starting lineup against smaller teams. I certainly don’t think that there’s a definitive lineup in today’s college game... lots of moving pieces.

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1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

For fun going with a lineup I think will be most impactful.

Phinisee

Green (I don't count my Romeo chickens before they hatch)

McRoberts

Smith

Morgan

Adding to some of the 5 player commentary, As Muckracker said on page 1, I think people are selling Forrester short.

Watched this game Sat 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=westtown+pa+basketball&qpvt=westtown+pa+basketball&view=detail&mid=D1CAE36B717F0BB38F37D1CAE36B717F0BB38F37&&FORM=VRDGAR

came away impressed, see a mobile, above the rim player that can stretch the D. a lot of tools for the coaching staff to work with. Also, I hadn't realized that last year he practiced daily against Mo Bamba when he was only 6'8". Now he is considered 6'10"?

Frankly, that lineup is not very good.  For a winning team,  McRoberts works better as a 7th or 8th man providing energy off the bench.  Green plays very little for  good team.   

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One thing that people often overlook is whether a player played on a successful high school team.  People get so caught up in perceived talent and potential, that they ignore whether the player knows how to win and make players around him better.

Cody won state championships.

Vic played for Dematha.

Romeo will be special in college, in part, because he's consistently won and he led a team to a Championship.

Other kids may have equal levels of talent, but don't possess the know-how or the intestinal fortitude to make a true difference.

 

 

 

 

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Our guards this year ranged from mediocre to terrible, and Archie still played a three guard lineup almost exclusively. Justin Smith was buried on the bench until Davis got hurt. More minutes for Newkirk, Durham, and McRoberts was deemed a better option than Justin Smith playing the three.

I'm not trying to make a statement on what we should or shouldn't do. Just looking at reality and how Archie sees things. I would be shocked to see Smith or Morgan get significant minutes at the three. My stab at a lineup:

Phinisee - Langford - Hunter - Smith - Morgan

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2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Frankly, that lineup is not very good.  For a winning team,  McRoberts works better as a 7th or 8th man providing energy off the bench.  Green plays very little for  good team.   

Why can't a guy who is an All-B1G caliber defender, good rebounder who doesn't make mistakes start on a good team? That's a hard view for me to understand. 

Green certainly has to get much more consistent but the talent is there. It wouldn't be the strangest thing to see an upperclassmen figure out consistency. 

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