Romeo Langford

[rico]

8 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Well maybe the reason the site is named Yahoo is because that's who's running it.

A bunch of Yahoos.

I love to drink a bunch of Yahoos....or is that yoo-hoos?  Hmmmmmm.

[CincyHoosier]

Anyone think Romeo comes back for "unfinished business" if this little run continues into the BTT and NCAAT?

[rico]

35 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

Anyone think Romeo comes back for "unfinished business" if this little run continues into the BTT and NCAAT?

You can never rule anything out.

[SeeYa@roys]

On 3/8/2019 at 10:50 AM, rico said:

You can never rule anything out.

I think he’s staying, it may not be by choice though.

He’s a shooting guard, but he only shot 27% from beyond the arc this season. That’ll spook a lot of scouts, most draft folks start to comment on 3pt percentages below 40%.... below 30% though... that’s a problem. The shooting guards with sub 30% 3pt were not good picks... Josh Jackson, Fultz, and Dante D.... those were just the ones in the Top 15 since 2014. It’s seems like if you were sub 30, you fell. 

If he goes, I think he would go in the 10-20 range, and that would cost him a lot of money from the projected Top 5. He could pull a Kennard or Donovan Mitchell....stay an extra year or two, and get his shooting percentage up 10-15%. That’ll go a long way. I could see him easily go in the Top 5 if he was north of 40%.

Also, In some games (Duke), he looked really intimidated and lacked confidence. If I’m a scout, that concerns me. Jumping from high school to college is a big jump, but college to the pros is even bigger.  I think he’ll go to the combine, and scouts are gonna say, “show us more”. Show us more consistency, and improve your outside shot. I think he’ll get his shot up to high 30s, low 40s.. and then he’ll be gone.

[rico]

7 hours ago, SeeYa@roys said:

I think he’s staying, it may not be by choice though.

He’s a shooting guard, but he only shot 27% from beyond the arc this season. That’ll spook a lot of scouts, most draft folks start to comment on 3pt percentages below 40%.... below 30% though... that’s a problem. The shooting guards with sub 30% 3pt were not good picks... Josh Jackson, Fultz, and Dante D.... those were just the ones in the Top 15 since 2014. It’s seems like if you were sub 30, you fell. 

If he goes, I think he would go in the 10-20 range, and that would cost him a lot of money from the projected Top 5. He could pull a Kennard or Donovan Mitchell....stay an extra year or two, and get his shooting percentage up 10-15%. That’ll go a long way. I could see him easily go in the Top 5 if he was north of 40%.

Also, In some games (Duke), he looked really intimidated and lacked confidence. If I’m a scout, that concerns me. Jumping from high school to college is a big jump, but college to the pros is even bigger.  I think he’ll go to the combine, and scouts are gonna say, “show us more”. Show us more consistency, and improve your outside shot. I think he’ll get his shot up to high 30s, low 40s.. and then he’ll be gone.

Ummmmm.......Fultz was selected #1.

[IUaic]

7 hours ago, SeeYa@roys said:

I think he’s staying, it may not be by choice though.

He’s a shooting guard, but he only shot 27% from beyond the arc this season. That’ll spook a lot of scouts, most draft folks start to comment on 3pt percentages below 40%.... below 30% though... that’s a problem. The shooting guards with sub 30% 3pt were not good picks... Josh Jackson, Fultz, and Dante D.... those were just the ones in the Top 15 since 2014. It’s seems like if you were sub 30, you fell. 

If he goes, I think he would go in the 10-20 range, and that would cost him a lot of money from the projected Top 5. He could pull a Kennard or Donovan Mitchell....stay an extra year or two, and get his shooting percentage up 10-15%. That’ll go a long way. I could see him easily go in the Top 5 if he was north of 40%.

Also, In some games (Duke), he looked really intimidated and lacked confidence. If I’m a scout, that concerns me. Jumping from high school to college is a big jump, but college to the pros is even bigger.  I think he’ll go to the combine, and scouts are gonna say, “show us more”. Show us more consistency, and improve your outside shot. I think he’ll get his shot up to high 30s, low 40s.. and then he’ll be gone.

This is from the article posted on page 349 to counter the Duke argument above...

“The first game I scouted Indiana in person was at Duke, and Romeo was one of the few guys who could even function in the first half. The rest of the guys could not function until the game was already over. The stage was too big.

[BGleas]

As I've always said, Langford is a fantastic player, and outside of the shooting struggles, has had a fantastic freshmen year. He's played a ton of minutes, has been relied upon to carry a huge load, and has handled all the pressure beautifully. He's a great player and a great kid. 

I think he's gone and he probably should be. If you're going to be a lottery pick, especially high-end lottery, you should go. But, one thing @5fouls has always said is that what he's heard locally is that Langford and the family are more focused on Langford being 'ready' than necessarily being laser-focused on being 1 and done. Now, I'm a pretty big proponent of the NBA actually being a better place to develop than college. The games and style of play are so different. The shots you get in college vs. the NBA are so different. The time you can spend with coaches, trainers, etc., are so different. I think there is a lot Langford could benefit from by working on his game in the NBA as opposed to college. 

With all that said, and with what 5fouls has said in mind, I think there is also merit to Langford staying for another year. His game has some holes in it, and while I think several of them (outside shot, left hand dribble, handles in general, strength, etc.) can all be worked on in in the NBA, there is one area that I think is pretty big that he could work on with another year at IU that could really benefit his draft stock and game. 

I think he could really benefit from a year as "the man". That might sound crazy, as Langford has always been the man in his career and has carried a big load this season, but he has also been really passive at times. He's disappeared at times. He tends to slide to the corner and kind of stand at times. I think he could use a year to be thrust into a leadership role and really develop that killer instinct. I think he'll be a mid-lottery pick this season, but if he came back for a year, spent the summer honing his jumper and left hand, and then came back next year and led IU to a big year and had a POY type season, he could be a top 3 pick. 

Again, I don't expect him to come back, and what I've laid out depends on what his goals are. Does he want to get to the NBA ASAP or does he want to be selected as high as possible and be as ready as possible? I'd assume the former, but I do think there are some benefits to the latter though it is a risk. 

 

[Zuckerkorn]

If the main criteria is being "ready", he's got a ways to go.  Being ready can encompass polishing your skills and eliminating your weaknesses so that either you are good enough to contribute as an NBA player or you've become as good as you're going to get in college.  Romeo needs to get better at several things and definitely can improve greatly with another year or two at the collegiate level.

Of course for others being ready is just getting in a position to be drafted (as high as possible).  Experience has shown that the lure of guaranteed $$$ wins out most of the time.

Personally I hate seeing players leave just because of money and the magical "potential".  Admittedly my interest is primarily whats best for IU, but it's always a shame to see a guy flame out when his chances would have better if he spent more time in college.  When I think of guys like McGinnis or Thomas - those guys were "ready" and were big time pro players almost immediately. A guy like Haston was't going to get any better and it made sense to grab the money while he could.  Romeo fits into neither of those situations.  That said, it's got to be very hard to pass up big money.

[FW_Hoosier]

1 hour ago, rico said:

Ummmmm.......Fultz was selected #1.

Not to mention that not one of the guys he listed actually shot below 30% from three the year before they were drafted, lol.  Fultz and DiVincenzo shot above 40%, and Jackson shot 37.8%.

[jblaz13]

Since it is hard telling what will happen even with the reminder of this season - that might play a part like some have mentioned here already . .

With Romeo Langford,  I think even in worst case NBA scenario - you get a player like Jamal Crawford. - who can make it in the league for almost 20 years and gives no less than a circa-15 per.game career average, especially If he finds and develops a more consistent shot. He could extend his career in a similar way as his ability naturally deteriorates with age since his body is so long. 

Compare Langford and Crawford on Draft potential . Crawford went 8th in 2000 . Eerily similar to me.

One thing I wonder :  Has Romeo improved enough on defense to give more teams more comfort with him than earlier in the year?  So far I would guess that is a yes. 

Some scouts are bottom line types. Among Romeo's true biggest selling points -  the fact Langford is so coachable on top of his obvious potential. That should never be taken for granted in any discussion of his draft stock when so many are drafted on potential. The "risk/reward factor is overwhelmingly in his favor. 

When a kid sets out to improve , do they actually do it?   A lot of guys say what they need to get better at or might accept the critique, but not all of them actually take it to heart then go out and deliver. His work ethic and attitude about improving individually and doing what the team needs are a coach's dream. One could(currently) point to his defense and see a kid who really sets out to back up his talk and finds some degree of success. 

For a time Archie also asked him to handle it more, then recently he asked him to attack the rim more aggressively. Romeo for the most part has delivered when asked . He's went about showing us tangible improvement including  seeing it pay off for IU in a relatively short time frame. His recent scoring output in the 4 game streak have shown he knows when he needs to assert himself more and when he needs to go with the flow. There is value to the way he's been allowing the game to come to him at times, and pushing harder at others provided he can continue to time that properly as he has started doing Big players need to be big in the 2nd half. He had a quiet 20 (after a single digit 1st half)  against Illinois , but his presence was felt nonetheless. He never stopped making an impact in the game since he kept working hard on both ends..Does Langford still need to attack more frequently? . Absolutely does!  Is he showing that decisiveness to do what must be done to improve when asked then actually go out and start delivering the goods Absolutely has. 

I don't know how this evolved into stating why I think he might be gone already unless something in this season and his bond with the team change his plans last minute. That is, based on comparing him to Jamal Crawford only FWIW.Lol 

 

I've followed a lot of B1G basketball in my life, and he was the first player I thought of in trying to project the floor for Romeo IMO. .

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4397008/romeo-langford

: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jamal-crawford-1.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_draft

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

As I've always said, Langford is a fantastic player, and outside of the shooting struggles, has had a fantastic freshmen year. He's played a ton of minutes, has been relied upon to carry a huge load, and has handled all the pressure beautifully. He's a great player and a great kid. 

I think he's gone and he probably should be. If you're going to be a lottery pick, especially high-end lottery, you should go. But, one thing @5fouls has always said is that what he's heard locally is that Langford and the family are more focused on Langford being 'ready' than necessarily being laser-focused on being 1 and done. Now, I'm a pretty big proponent of the NBA actually being a better place to develop than college. The games and style of play are so different. The shots you get in college vs. the NBA are so different. The time you can spend with coaches, trainers, etc., are so different. I think there is a lot Langford could benefit from by working on his game in the NBA as opposed to college. 

With all that said, and with what 5fouls has said in mind, I think there is also merit to Langford staying for another year. His game has some holes in it, and while I think several of them (outside shot, left hand dribble, handles in general, strength, etc.) can all be worked on in in the NBA, there is one area that I think is pretty big that he could work on with another year at IU that could really benefit his draft stock and game. 

I think he could really benefit from a year as "the man". That might sound crazy, as Langford has always been the man in his career and has carried a big load this season, but he has also been really passive at times. He's disappeared at times. He tends to slide to the corner and kind of stand at times. I think he could use a year to be thrust into a leadership role and really develop that killer instinct. I think he'll be a mid-lottery pick this season, but if he came back for a year, spent the summer honing his jumper and left hand, and then came back next year and led IU to a big year and had a POY type season, he could be a top 3 pick. 

Again, I don't expect him to come back, and what I've laid out depends on what his goals are. Does he want to get to the NBA ASAP or does he want to be selected as high as possible and be as ready as possible? I'd assume the former, but I do think there are some benefits to the latter though it is a risk. 

 

Well said. 

There are absolutely pluses and minuses to/for Romeo going pro after this season, as his game is not complete, on the one hand, but on the other, he's obviously done tremendously well overall and has all the traits / characteristics / skills of a potentially elite next-level player.

He's averaging almost 17 points and 5 1/2 boards in the B1G as a frosh with teams focusing their D largely on him. He's a fluid, elite, athletic scorer.

Just looking at his season 3-point shooting ignores that he has been improving his outside shot over the year --

In the last 10 games, starting with @MSU he's shooting 35% from 3 (15 of 42), and that includes an outlier, the home game against MSU when he shot 0-4. 

During that span his outside shooting looked like 3-7, or 2-5, etc. 

The signs of his growing outside game are already there, and he clearly has a good shot inside the arc, again, with Romeo it's about his developing range and timing, not form/potential. 

The scouts see this, they're obviously not just pulling up his season percentages, they're watching how he plays game by game, and how he develops, and literally all signs, on both sides of the ball, show a kid with real NBA potential whose game is continuing to grow. If you're an NBA team, you draft him in the lottery.

But I absolutely agree he could also grow his game further over another year and probably improve his draft stock -- though with the risk of injury and losing the place he's already created for himself. That's always a tough choice.

 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

As I've always said, Langford is a fantastic player, and outside of the shooting struggles, has had a fantastic freshmen year. He's played a ton of minutes, has been relied upon to carry a huge load, and has handled all the pressure beautifully. He's a great player and a great kid. 

I think he's gone and he probably should be. If you're going to be a lottery pick, especially high-end lottery, you should go. But, one thing @5fouls has always said is that what he's heard locally is that Langford and the family are more focused on Langford being 'ready' than necessarily being laser-focused on being 1 and done. Now, I'm a pretty big proponent of the NBA actually being a better place to develop than college. The games and style of play are so different. The shots you get in college vs. the NBA are so different. The time you can spend with coaches, trainers, etc., are so different. I think there is a lot Langford could benefit from by working on his game in the NBA as opposed to college. 

With all that said, and with what 5fouls has said in mind, I think there is also merit to Langford staying for another year. His game has some holes in it, and while I think several of them (outside shot, left hand dribble, handles in general, strength, etc.) can all be worked on in in the NBA, there is one area that I think is pretty big that he could work on with another year at IU that could really benefit his draft stock and game. 

I think he could really benefit from a year as "the man". That might sound crazy, as Langford has always been the man in his career and has carried a big load this season, but he has also been really passive at times. He's disappeared at times. He tends to slide to the corner and kind of stand at times. I think he could use a year to be thrust into a leadership role and really develop that killer instinct. I think he'll be a mid-lottery pick this season, but if he came back for a year, spent the summer honing his jumper and left hand, and then came back next year and led IU to a big year and had a POY type season, he could be a top 3 pick. 

Again, I don't expect him to come back, and what I've laid out depends on what his goals are. Does he want to get to the NBA ASAP or does he want to be selected as high as possible and be as ready as possible? I'd assume the former, but I do think there are some benefits to the latter though it is a risk. 

 

My point has always been is that they should stay until they are ready to contribute right away instead of having to sit the bench for a couple of years or play in the G-league

[BGleas]

36 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My point has always been is that they should stay until they are ready to contribute right away instead of having to sit the bench for a couple of years or play in the G-league

If Langford chooses to leave and go pro after the season, I would be surprised if he spends any time in the G-League next season. 

[SeeYa@roys]

3 hours ago, rico said:

Ummmmm.......Fultz was selected #1.

...but he was a bust.

[rico]

6 minutes ago, SeeYa@roys said:

...but he was a bust.

Doesn't matter, he was well compensated and still is.

[Zlinedavid]

46 minutes ago, rico said:

Doesn't matter, he was well compensated and still is.

His 3 year rookie contract was $25M guaranteed.  That's enough to set most anyone up for life. 

[IU Scott]

33 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

His 3 year rookie contract was $25M guaranteed.  That's enough to set most anyone up for life. 

Should but it usually don't work that way because after taxes they probably got 17m plus you have to pay your agent a cut of that as well.  Then if you have a lot of family or hanger ons that you have to take care of and that money can run out quickly.

[Zlinedavid]

17 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Should but it usually don't work that way because after taxes they probably got 17m plus you have to pay your agent a cut of that as well. 

Even once my agent got his 20%, I could more than make do with $13M.  As for the rest, that's on that person.  No rule that says you HAVE to take care of everyone around you.  I think most people would want to take care of parents, grandparents, siblings, close mentors, etc.  But, there's taking care of and there's "taking care of".  Pay off/buy them a decent home and a decent car.  Everyone around you doesn't NEED a new BMW. 

[FKIM01]

35 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Even once my agent got his 20%, I could more than make do with $13M.  As for the rest, that's on that person.  No rule that says you HAVE to take care of everyone around you.  I think most people would want to take care of parents, grandparents, siblings, close mentors, etc.  But, there's taking care of and there's "taking care of".  Pay off/buy them a decent home and a decent car.  Everyone around you doesn't NEED a new BMW. 

Take $3mm and put it in a W-2 trust for family/friends.  Keep the remaining $10MM and draw 4% (initially $400K) annually for life.

What is a W-2 trust you ask?  Define who your intended recipients are and then notify them that annually, your trustee will pay them a percentage of their W-2 or tax return verified self-employment income.  Maybe you match 25%, 50% or even 100% of their income...whatever works with the parameters you have.  It serves a purpose and sends a message to the leeches.  I've witnessed it work very effectively.

 

[Zlinedavid]

3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Take $3mm and put it in a W-2 trust for family/friends.  Keep the remaining $10MM and draw 4% (initially $800K) annually for life.

What is a W-2 trust you ask?  Define who your intended recipients are and then notify them that annually, your trustee will pay them a percentage of their W-2 or tax return verified self-employment income.  Maybe you match 25%, 50% or even 100% of their income...whatever works with the parameters you have.  It serves a purpose and sends a message to the leeches.  I've witnessed it work very effectively.

 

A very solid approach. 

(4% of $10M is 400K, not 800K though 😉)

[FKIM01]

Just now, Zlinedavid said:

A very solid approach. 

(4% of $10M is 400K, not 800K though 😉)

I hate when I slip a gear...I'll correct that.

[btownqb]

2 hours ago, SeeYa@roys said:

...but he was a bust.

You're categorizing a 20 year old as a bust? Kid turns 21 in May. He has PLENTY of ball left. 

[Zlinedavid]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

You're categorizing a 20 year old as a bust? Kid turns 21 in May. He has PLENTY of ball left. 

Worst case, he takes his $10-ishM and plays ball in Europe for 20 years while still pulling in a healthy amount of dough. 

[rico]

20 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Worst case, he takes his $10-ishM and plays ball in Europe for 20 years while still pulling in a healthy amount of dough. 

I would imagine that Fultz would make SERIOUS coin in Europe.  The kid is set for life.

[dwtaylor1055]

Fultz is already making millions due to being drafted where he was.  I know he would make good money in Europe if the market for him here in the states were dry.  Just ask Joe Young, he was a 2nd rd pick our of Oregon, played on the Pacers for 3 years or so and now is averaging 30+ ppg over in China.  He's loving life, as would Fultz or whoever played overseas. 

 

If Langford goes pro this offseason, he will make a contribution right away, even if it is off of the bench.  Just like Jevon Carter out of West Virginia(different positions I know), he is limited on offense but plays very good defense.  No way would I have said Carter would be playing regular minutes.  Romeo will DEF play in summer league and contribute to whatever NBA team he does to.  Yes he will need help from the NBA coaching staff to become better but every player at some point has learned something