Romeo Langford

[CrimsonV]

6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Guess we have different definitions of “big time.”  I definitely like the potential of the players we currently have signed, but the 21st ranked recruiting class isn’t much to write home about at this point.  I don’t think you can crown anyone a “stud recruiter” until they’ve landed multiple five stars, or at least until the three and four stars they’ve recruited have translated into conference and tournament success.

And being in good position with recruits means absolutely nothing if you don’t ultimately land them.  Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. 

Like I said, it’s all about the context.  We’re talking about 5 months.  Even 4 stars are recruited for years.  I’m not alone -  I know there was some expert or “person on tv” who was talking up the recruiting work of Archie.

[KoB2011]

17 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. 

 

I've tried to tell my wife it counts in the bedroom but she has a different take on the matter. 

[milehiiu]

Romeo Langford, Indiana All-Stars set for basketball game vs. Kentucky

[FKIM01]

18 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Romeo Langford, Indiana All-Stars set for basketball game vs. Kentucky

I foresee two good old fashioned Indiana curb-stompings...

[BEKA]

1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

Romeo Langford, Indiana All-Stars set for basketball game vs. Kentucky

I wouldn't mind seeing this series go the way of the dodo. We all know that Kentucky is no basketball state outside of UK and UL raiding the cupboards of their neighbors. I mean, the game in KY is being played in a gym with less than 3,000 seats while the IN game will be at Banker's Life FH. At this point, this series has become so one-sided, it just seems like a bad joke. 

[kyhoosier29]

3 minutes ago, BEKA said:

I wouldn't mind seeing this series go the way of the dodo. We all know that Kentucky is no basketball state outside of UK and UL raiding the cupboards of their neighbors. I mean, the game in KY is being played in a gym with less than 3,000 seats while the IN game will be at Banker's Life FH. At this point, this series has become so one-sided, it just seems like a bad joke. 

Yeah, from a high school basketball standpoint, KY does not have anywhere near talent like Indiana does. The Sweet 16 in Rupp is cool, but yeah, not the same. 

[milehiiu]

1 hour ago, BEKA said:

 At this point, this series has become so one-sided, it just seems like a bad joke. 

That's a fact Jack.  I mean BEKA.  Not that I thought about doing away with the series.  Kinda enjoy taking any Kentucky team to the woodshed. But it has been one sided lately.  That I can agree with you on.

[BEKA]

21 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

That's a fact Jack.  I mean BEKA.  Not that I thought about doing away with the series.  Kinda enjoy taking any Kentucky team to the woodshed. But it has been one sided lately.  That I can agree with you on.

Agree on the "taking KY to the woodshed" part, but when Indiana has won 31 of the last 34 games played and leads this ancient series by over 50 games, it just becomes rote and boring. KY just isn't good at producing basketball talent. Good at stealing it, sure. But their HS talent has faded into nothingness over the past 25-30 years. I'd rather actually compete with someone. 

 

[zerawkid]

4 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Guess we have different definitions of “big time.”  I definitely like the potential of the players we currently have signed, but the 21st ranked recruiting class isn’t much to write home about at this point.  I don’t think you can crown anyone a “stud recruiter” until they’ve landed multiple five stars, or at least until the three and four stars they’ve recruited have translated into conference and tournament success.

And being in good position with recruits means absolutely nothing if you don’t ultimately land them.  Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. 

I dunno, a 21 ranked recruit class during a season that ultimately saw the program miss the postseason seems like solid, if not entirely spectacular, work. 

[FW_Hoosier]

1 hour ago, zerawkid said:

I dunno, a 21 ranked recruit class during a season that ultimately saw the program miss the postseason seems like solid, if not entirely spectacular, work. 

I agree.  I think it’s a solid start, and honestly, if Archie lands Romeo, I’ll be the first to say he’s a stud recruiter.  But recruiting is about closing the deal — just making the final three isn’t good enough.

Archie also came into a pretty good situation at IU.  We had just won the Big Ten and made the Sweet 16 the year before, beating UK in the tourney.  Crean messed the roster up a bit, but the program was still in a pretty strong position.  Archie has done a good job recruiting up to this point, and now it’s time to close the deal on the big fish.  I think he’s got a good chance to do that.

[ArchieBall13]

1 hour ago, zerawkid said:

I dunno, a 21 ranked recruit class during a season that ultimately saw the program miss the postseason seems like solid, if not entirely spectacular, work. 

Agree with FWHoosier...think it is currently a very solid class for Archie to build on. But you lost me with spectacular and 21st best in the same breath...

[zerawkid]

9 hours ago, ArchieBall13 said:

Agree with FWHoosier...think it is currently a very solid class for Archie to build on. But you lost me with spectacular and 21st best in the same breath...

Are you taking my comment out of context? 

Not having researched it (because I don’t think I need to), but, did any of the schools with classes ranked in front of us miss post season play? 

Because, that was actually my point.

[zerawkid]

9 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I agree.  I think it’s a solid start, and honestly, if Archie lands Romeo, I’ll be the first to say he’s a stud recruiter.  But recruiting is about closing the deal — just making the final three isn’t good enough.

Archie also came into a pretty good situation at IU.  We had just won the Big Ten and made the Sweet 16 the year before, beating UK in the tourney.  Crean messed the roster up a bit, but the program was still in a pretty strong position.  Archie has done a good job recruiting up to this point, and now it’s time to close the deal on the big fish.  I think he’s got a good chance to do that.

I agree with some of that, the prior year results were good. 

However, Crean’s last season featured a collapse of historic proportions of which you just don’t see that often. Also, if top flight recruits who were considering us valued continuity, the fact that we lost our four top scorers likely was not encouraging.

And, as had been pointed out here as nauseam in Romeo’s case, Crean didn’t leave much in the way of recruiting momentum behind.

[FW_Hoosier]

18 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

I agree with some of that, the prior year results were good. 

However, Crean’s last season featured a collapse of historic proportions of which you just don’t see that often. Also, if top flight recruits who were considering us valued continuity, the fact that we lost our four top scorers likely was not encouraging.

And, as had been pointed out here as nauseam in Romeo’s case, Crean didn’t leave much in the way of recruiting momentum behind.

Sure, the last season ended really poorly.  But programs don’t fire coaches if everything is going well and the coach has recruiting momentum.  As far as taking over a program after the last coach has been fired goes, Archie came into about as good of a situation as you could ask for.  We also had two wins over number one seeds and were ranked in the top 5 before that collapse, and put OG and Bryant in the draft.  So it wasn’t all bad.

My point is that I don’t think Archie’s done anything out of the ordinary in recruiting so far.  He didn’t take over a major rebuild from a recruiting standpoint, and IU is always going to attract the type of players he’s signed so far.  But if he’s able to land a recruit like Romeo over Self, Cal, Roy, etc., right off the bat, that will be really impressive.  But he has to actually close the deal, just getting close isn’t enough.

[PoHoosier]

CAM and IU did come from nowhere in this recruitment where we had no chance, to being 1 of 3 finalists.
Nothing to celebrate, but I hate to dismiss what was done and the effort put in in such a short amount of time.
Not 'closing' the deal will not have be critical of CAM.  
Its been said if CAM and IU do not get the commitment from RL, it is not from a lack of effort.

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Sure, the last season ended really poorly.  But programs don’t fire coaches if everything is going well and the coach has recruiting momentum.  As far as taking over a program after the last coach has been fired goes, Archie came into about as good of a situation as you could ask for.  We also had two wins over number one seeds and were ranked in the top 5 before that collapse, and put OG and Bryant in the draft.  So it wasn’t all bad.

My point is that I don’t think Archie’s done anything out of the ordinary in recruiting so far.  He didn’t take over a major rebuild from a recruiting standpoint, and IU is always going to attract the type of players he’s signed so far.  But if he’s able to land a recruit like Romeo over Self, Cal, Roy, etc., right off the bat, that will be really impressive.  But he has to actually close the deal, just getting close isn’t enough.

I agree with you, but I also think what I find pretty incredible, or at least encouraging, are the inroads Archie has made instate. If you believe that Crean ruined relationships with Indiana high school and AAU coaches, and I think we have to believe some of that evidenced by how IU wasn’t even in it with the four top 2017 instate kids, then it’s pretty remarkeable that in just a few months he landed Phinisee and Anderson, has IU in solid with Brooks and TJD, and got IU from not even considered to in Romeo Langford’s Final 3. 

I not a “only recruit Indiana” guy, but also think it does matter that IU gets the top instate guys, so IMO what he’s done there is fairly impressive. 

[iuvol]

17 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Who does Vandy have down low? Anybody that will require as much attention as Juwan to take pressure off of Romeo? 

I too think we have a great fit for Romeo, but i'm NOT trying to biased. And I think what you wrote above is a bigger factor in his decision than just being the 'hometown team'. Everything I've heard and read points to Romeo analyzing a coaches system and how he fits into it. He's never muttered a word about 'staying home' or 'the opportunity to be an Indiana legend.' The impression I get is that the kid is making a straight-up basketball decision; he's making it with his head and not his heart.  

 

Vandy has a 5 star PF coming in with Garland. 

[StLHoosier]

13 minutes ago, iuvol said:

Vandy has a 5 star PF coming in with Garland. 

Who's coming of an ACL/blown out knee.  Who knows if he'll be the same.

[FW_Hoosier]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I agree with you, but I also think what I find pretty incredible, or at least encouraging, are the inroads Archie has made instate. If you believe that Crean ruined relationships with Indiana high school and AAU coaches, and I think we have to believe some of that evidenced by how IU wasn’t even in it with the four top 2017 instate kids, then it’s pretty remarkeable that in just a few months he landed Phinisee and Anderson, has IU in solid with Brooks and TJD, and got IU from not even considered to in Romeo Langford’s Final 3. 

I not a “only recruit Indiana” guy, but also think it does matter that IU gets the top instate guys, so IMO what he’s done there is fairly impressive. 

I agree it’s encouraging, but would disagree it’s incredible or remarkable.  IU has (or at least should have) a built in advantage with in-state recruits.  Any coach worth his salt should be able to get recruits like Anderson and Phinisee at IU.  I think it says more about Crean that he wasn’t able to land those type of guys toward the end than it does about Archie that he has been able to so far.

And it’s just my opinion, but I just don’t think coaches should get credit until the recruit is signed.  Crean didn’t get credit for the multiple high-level recruits who put IU in their final three and then went elsewhere, nor should he have.  Success in recruiting is about actually getting the kids on campus.  

[KoB2011]

27 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I agree it’s encouraging, but would disagree it’s incredible or remarkable.  IU has (or at least should have) a built in advantage with in-state recruits.  Any coach worth his salt should be able to get recruits like Anderson and Phinisee at IU.  I think it says more about Crean that he wasn’t able to land those type of guys toward the end than it does about Archie that he has been able to so far.

And it’s just my opinion, but I just don’t think coaches should get credit until the recruit is signed.  Crean didn’t get credit for the multiple high-level recruits who put IU in their final three and then went elsewhere, nor should he have.  Success in recruiting is about actually getting the kids on campus.  

You can recognize the work someone is doing and give them credit before the final results are in. We should evaluate people as much, if not more so, for the process than actual results. A process is repeatable, results aren't if there isn't a good process in place. 

You keep saying Archie came into a wonderful situation then completely dismiss anything that made his job hard that he had to work his butt off to overcome. I don't think anyone is arguing it was the worst situation to come into, but losing all your best players off of a bad team isn't exactly the best situation either. I can think of many examples of new hires walking into better situations; Chris Holtmann twice comes to mind. 

[CrimsonV]

8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You can recognize the work someone is doing and give them credit before the final results are in. We should evaluate people as much, if not more so, for the process than actual results. A process is repeatable, results aren't if there isn't a good process in place. 

You keep saying Archie came into a wonderful situation then completely dismiss anything that made his job hard that he had to work his butt off to overcome. I don't think anyone is arguing it was the worst situation to come into, but losing all your best players off of a bad team isn't exactly the best situation either. I can think of many examples of new hires walking into better situations; Chris Holtmann twice comes to mind. 

Your post triggered the memory of this piece.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/99686462

[FW_Hoosier]

5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You can recognize the work someone is doing and give them credit before the final results are in. We should evaluate people as much, if not more so, for the process than actual results. A process is repeatable, results aren't if there isn't a good process in place. 

You keep saying Archie came into a wonderful situation then completely dismiss anything that made his job hard that he had to work his butt off to overcome. I don't think anyone is arguing it was the worst situation to come into, but losing all your best players off of a bad team isn't exactly the best situation either. I can think of many examples of new hires walking into better situations; Chris Holtmann twice comes to mind. 

To be clear, I’m not talking about the rebuilding job Archie has had to do on the court.  Archie had a lot to overcome installing a new system, eliminating bad habits, working with a mediocre roster, etc.  But when it comes to the recruiting side, I just don’t think he started out in a bad position.  IU has won the Big Ten twice and made a few decent tournament runs in the past 5 or 6 years.  Its national brand is fairly strong, and he didn’t have to deal with any sanctions, a toxic locker room, or mass transfers.  And I’ve argued this before, but Holtmann really didn’t inherit a much better situation than Archie did at all.

As far as process vs. results, I think recruiting is a much more results-oriented business than most.  The process isn’t worth much if it doesn’t lead to actually signing big time recruits.  I’m glad Archie seems to be in good position with some high-level recruits, but I’m not ready to start singing his praises until he actually gets them.

[DocHoosier]

3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

To be clear, I’m not talking about the rebuilding job Archie has had to do on the court.  Archie had a lot to overcome installing a new system, eliminating bad habits, working with a mediocre roster, etc.  But when it comes to the recruiting side, I just don’t think he started out in a bad position.  IU has won the Big Ten twice and made a few decent tournament runs in the past 5 or 6 years.  Its national brand is fairly strong, and he didn’t have to deal with any sanctions, a toxic locker room, or mass transfers.  And I’ve argued this before, but Holtmann really didn’t inherit a much better situation than Archie did at all.

As far as process vs. results, I think recruiting is a much more results-oriented business than most.  The process isn’t worth much if it doesn’t lead to actually signing big time recruits.  I’m glad Archie seems to be in good position with some high-level recruits, but I’m not ready to start singing his praises until he actually gets them.

Bates-Diop arguably POY candidate. That alone is more than Archie inherited

[FW_Hoosier]

1 minute ago, DocHoosier said:

Bates-Diop arguably POY candidate. That alone is more than Archie inherited

And Morgan was arguably a first-team all Big Ten player.  Bates-Diop was not that much better than Morgan last year.

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

And Morgan was arguably a first-team all Big Ten player.  Bates-Diop was not that much better than Morgan last year.

We didn't have a JaSean Tate to pair with Morgan. The fifth-year senior guard on OSU (Williams) was decidedly better than our fifth-year senior guard.