ADegenerate Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 22 minutes ago, IU Scott said: You don't need a whole roster of one and done players to win big. Since the one and done rule went into affect only 3 teams won a championship with a one and done player on their roster. Let me guess that you are in the younger generation of fan and probably won't understand what I am going to say. To me what I have loved about college basketball all these years is watching players come in and see them develop over the 4 years. I like seeing a team develop over a few years and go through some up and downs then one year everything comes together and you make a run at the championship. I'm 33. I fell in love with IU when we the system you're talking about actually worked with the likes of Chaeney, GG, Evans, Bailey and those guys. Knight fell by the wayside and stuck with that system and we slowly sunk into an abyss of more and more and more mediocrity. That' almost a 40% chance of winning the title. I'm not suggesting we try to build a super team of one and dones like Kentucky. What I'm suggesting is that we always have one, two, and ideally three top 10 players on the the squad year in and year out and surround them with guys like Hunter and Morgan. If we can't land top 10 guys regularly then we aren't raising a banner. It's that simple for me. I've studied these teams for far too long now. I get your appeal and I can respect that but it doesn't do it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Just now, ADegenerate said: I'm 33. I fell in love with IU when we the system you're talking about actually worked with the likes of Chaeney, GG, Evans, Bailey and those guys. Knight fell by the wayside and stuck with that system and we slowly sunk into an abyss of more and more and more mediocrity. That' almost a 40% chance of winning the title. I'm not suggesting we try to build a super team of one and dones like Kentucky. What I'm suggesting is that we always have one, two, and ideally three top 10 players on the the squad year in and year out and surround them with guys like Hunter and Morgan. If we can't land top 10 guys regularly then we aren't raising a banner. It's that simple for me. I've studied these teams for far too long now. I get your appeal and I can respect that but it doesn't do it for me. How about teams like Villanova and UW who has been very successful and build their teams with 4 year players. Also look at UNC where they have not been getting top 10 players but build there teams with players 15-100 and has done very well. UNC until this past year has not had many one and done players and they usually stay 3 to 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I guess there is some benefit to being able to say that you have a top 5 or top 10 rated recruiting class, however until these kids get on the floor and show they can out compete the opposition, all of the rankings are really meaningless. Our not too distant past (see "the Movement") is the best example of this. Regardless of the class rankings, coaches have to develop each kid to mesh and function at a high level as part of a team. To me, the rankings allow alumni and fanbases the opportunity to puff their chests out and feel proud about their team. That's all the value that I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 9 minutes ago, IU Scott said: How about teams like Villanova and UW who has been very successful and build their teams with 4 year players. Also look at UNC where they have not been getting top 10 players but build there teams with players 15-100 and has done very well. UNC until this past year has not had many one and done players and they usually stay 3 to 4 years. UNC has the perfect system and they did have top 10 players and stacks of 5 star players. That 2009 team had Ellington, Lawson, Hansborough, and ed davis...four top 10 players with loads of guys in the 20's. You're right in that the 2017 only had one or two of them but the rest of that team was all in the 20-50 range. That's kind of what I'm calling for here. A few top 10 guys surrounded by a team full of guys with a fair shot at making the league. You're ignoring duke which proves my point perfectly. They win and get all the top 10 guys...and kentucky wins. Far, far, far more successful than your wisc example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, ADegenerate said: UNC has the perfect system and they did have top 10 players and stacks of 5 star players. That 2009 team had Ellington, Lawson, Hansborough, and ed davis...four top 10 players with loads of guys in the 20's. You're right in that the 2017 only had one or two of them but the rest of that team was all in the 20-50 range. That's kind of what I'm calling for here. A few top 10 guys surrounded by a team full of guys with a fair shot at making the league. You're ignoring duke which proves my point perfectly. They win and get all the top 10 guys...and kentucky wins. Far, far, far more successful than your wisc example. I still would rather build my team like UW and Villanova than a UK or Duke. I just don't want a total roster turnover every year. Look at UK this year where they only have two players coming back that played last year. At least Duke does have some experience with the young talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I still would rather build my team like UW and Villanova than a UK or Duke. I just don't want a total roster turnover every year. Look at UK this year where they only have two players coming back that played last year. At least Duke does have some experience with the young talent. Fair enough scott. Let's call it a draw. People getting fed up with my rambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 8 minutes ago, ADegenerate said: Fair enough scott. Let's call it a draw. People getting fed up with my rambling Ramble on. So long as it is civil, which is what you have been doing. That's what sites like this are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, ADegenerate said: Fair enough scott. Let's call it a draw. People getting fed up with my rambling It is alright for people to disagree as long as we keep it civil. that is why I love this site more than any other site because of the civility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 We need to pump the breaks here a little and get the commit first. Jerry Meyer is wrong a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacarcio Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, Indykev said: We need to pump the breaks here a little and get the commit first. Jerry Meyer is wrong a lot. No kidding, I was "Donovan'd" Once i dont think my heart can take another one ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 In the past decade three teams have won a title with a one and done. One of them was this past season. How many people even know who the one and done on UNC was without looking it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, Indykev said: We need to pump the breaks here a little and get the commit first. Jerry Meyer is wrong a lot. Par...ty. Poo...per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDenizen Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, IU Scott said: It is alright for people to disagree as long as we keep it civil. that is why I love this site more than any other site because of the civility. Normally I get tired of some of the squabbling back and forth, but you two have actually been enjoyable and both bring good points/positions to the table. Nothing has been nasty or hateful, so thanks guys for helping to keep this board as good as it is. I get the argument about building a team, watching kids come through the system, develop, conquer the world. That is what a lot of us grew up on. I also am ready to win on a bigger scale and know we need to infuse great talent to make that happen consistently, but don't want an NBA farm team. I'd love a happy medium of both sides. This is why I love the idea of getting a Garland along side a Phinisee. Best of both worlds in my book. You have the possible one and done (who just might realize they need more time to develop and stick around another year or two extra), and you have the multi-year player who as an upperclassman should be a great leader and winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Maybe most of us here are drinking a whole lot of Kool-Aids, and there's always chance one or both of these recruits choose to go elsewhere. But it feels really good that we can have this type of discussion. That to me is an improvement and the sign our program is heading to the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said: Maybe most of us here are drinking a whole lot of Kool-Aids, and there's always chance one or both of these recruits choose to go elsewhere. But it feels really good that we can have this type of discussion. That to me is an improvement and the sign our program is heading to the right direction. That would happen to me. I'd look like a complete moron two times over after being right from the get go. Hey at least these two are legit finalists unlike the ones we always used to 'final' on under Crean. How many top 4's did we make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Robby Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I think he'll visit Kansas just to be sure. There's no way, no way he can be as blown away as he was at HH... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Robby Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Just now, Coach Robby said: I think he'll visit Kansas just to be sure. There's no way, no way he can be as blown away as he was at HH... And I'm guessing his commitment, when it does happen, will cause a domino effect with DG, JTD, and KB. Similar to Zeller's commitment and follow-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, INDenizen said: Normally I get tired of some of the squabbling back and forth, but you two have actually been enjoyable and both bring good points/positions to the table. Nothing has been nasty or hateful, so thanks guys for helping to keep this board as good as it is. I get the argument about building a team, watching kids come through the system, develop, conquer the world. That is what a lot of us grew up on. I also am ready to win on a bigger scale and know we need to infuse great talent to make that happen consistently, but don't want an NBA farm team. I'd love a happy medium of both sides. This is why I love the idea of getting a Garland along side a Phinisee. Best of both worlds in my book. You have the possible one and done (who just might realize they need more time to develop and stick around another year or two extra), and you have the multi-year player who as an upperclassman should be a great leader and winner. Good post INDenizen. I'm with you here. If we could regularly live in that 7-15 range year in and year out then we'll be set. I think you understand the point I've been trying to make and said well. The possible one and done is the sweet spot. If we did go in hard for a lock one and done then I'm sure it would be done to fill a need rather than just blindly acquire them only to be right back in the same spot again next year. Archies too smart for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, ADegenerate said: That would happen to me. I'd look like a complete moron two times over after being right from the get go. Hey at least these two are legit finalists unlike the ones we always used to 'final' on under Crean. How many top 4's did we make? I lost count. Too many swing and misses. Crean could get to final 7 or 5 or 4 because he was such a hard worker, but the issue was the ability to close the deal. Now I can kinda see what might've been the real issues from reading various articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 29 minutes ago, Coach Robby said: And I'm guessing his commitment, when it does happen, will cause a domino effect with DG, JTD, and KB. Similar to Zeller's commitment and follow-up Could see that with Garland and Davis. Would be surprised if Brooks followed suit quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said: I lost count. Too many swing and misses. Crean could get to final 7 or 5 or 4 because he was such a hard worker, but the issue was the ability to close the deal. Now I can kinda see what might've been the real issues from reading various articles. It got to the point where I was pretty sure that they just put IU up there so Crean wouldn't feel bad. He was one weird dude... I kind of appreciated and understood what he was trying to do throughout some of the weirdness. He'd try to push small edges that were outside the box that came off as bizarre but after some thought on it you might say oh ok this could be an advantage which was pretty cool to me but he went way overboard with it. I could talk/debate for days on that guys methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 2 hours ago, ADegenerate said: It got to the point where I was pretty sure that they just put IU up there so Crean wouldn't feel bad. He was one weird dude... I kind of appreciated and understood what he was trying to do throughout some of the weirdness. He'd try to push small edges that were outside the box that came off as bizarre but after some thought on it you might say oh ok this could be an advantage which was pretty cool to me but he went way overboard with it. I could talk/debate for days on that guys methods. Who you calling weird ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, milehiiu said: Who you calling weird ? If there's any fan base that's due for some breaks it's ours. Knight's dumbass getting himself fired...Davis had a good run at the right time and 'earned' a few more years than his skills suggested he get. We hire a great coach that seems like he can recruit well and the dumb ass breaks the rules he just broke. To top if off we get a dope of a coach who turns into a meme and makes us a joke nation wide. Hell our own players ran each other over in a vehicle. We can't even catch a break and have one decent run in the history of the big 10 tournament. There's a decent amount of luck in those things and we can't even get lucky in neutral spots over a large sample size. Hoosiers have drove me insane. Dunno how the fan base has stayed so patient for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 8 minutes ago, ADegenerate said: . Dunno how the fan base has stayed so patient for so long. Because we love the school, and the program, more than we love the coach ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, milehiiu said: Because we love the school, and the program, more than we love the coach ? I'm sitting here playing a bitcoin tournament with nothing to do but I'm going to show some restraint here and not take the bait. We could have an interesting debate on that one but this isn't the really the thread for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.