Romeo Langford

[NotIThatLives]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

What mid range game because most of those misses are on drives to the basket and not 12-15 foot open shots.

Scott that is why you loathe it because there is is no mid-range came

[milehiiu]

46 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

One difference- Vonleh sat himself to help his stock.  Romeo has played the most minutes on the team.  Furthermore, the kid plays D.  

Romeo has already shown improvment with his range.  He is now a left hand handle away.  

Oh, I agree. Furthermore,  Romeo looks to pass.  Vonleh would draw the double or triple team, and never look for the open man. 

[5fouls]

15 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Oh, I agree. Furthermore,  Romeo looks to pass.  Vonleh would draw the double or triple team, and never look for the open man. 

We are doing Romeo an injustice by comparing him to Vonleh.  Whatever similarity there is in team performance, one truly cares where one did not.  Let's stop that unfair comparison.

[Steubenhoosier]

57 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

One difference- Vonleh sat himself to help his stock.  Romeo has played the most minutes on the team.  Furthermore, the kid plays D.  

Romeo has already shown improvment with his range.  He is now a left hand handle away.  

 

9 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Oh, I agree. Furthermore,  Romeo looks to pass.  Vonleh would draw the double or triple team, and never look for the open man. 

I get it, based on his end of year decision not to play, one that more college kids are doing btw, Vonleh is not a beloved Hoosier. But I think you guys are letting that choice by Noah cloud your judgement.

Vonleh almost averaged a double-double - 11.3 points and 9 rebounds a game. He also averaged almost a steal a game and 1 1/2 blocks. Not sure if the insinuation was that Romeo plays defense and Noah didn’t, but if that is what you meant, I don’t think that is accurate. With a much smaller sample size, after all Vonleh was a 6’10” inside player, he still shot over 45% from 3. We have no one on this current team anywhere close to that figure.

Deservedly so, Vonleh gets painted as a selfish teammate by most of this fan base. However, for the 30 games he did play, he was pretty darn good.

[milehiiu]

57 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

We are doing Romeo an injustice by comparing him to Vonleh.  Whatever similarity there is in team performance, one truly cares where one did not.  Let's stop that unfair comparison.

Again. I agree.  The only fair comparison for me, is that both have/had holes in their game... and are doing no justice to IU by leaving early.  I HATE one and dones. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

We are doing Romeo an injustice by comparing him to Vonleh.  Whatever similarity there is in team performance, one truly cares where one did not.  Let's stop that unfair comparison.

I know I said this year’s team was like theVonleh team, lack of shooting, wouldn’t compare Romeo and Vonleh directly, very different players 

[KoB2011]

51 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Again. I agree.  The only fair comparison for me, is that both have/had holes in their game... and are doing no justice to IU by leaving early.  I HATE one and dones. 

Are you on a Windows or a Mac user? Gates and Jobs both left college early to go pro. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

We are doing Romeo an injustice by comparing him to Vonleh.  Whatever similarity there is in team performance, one truly cares where one did not.  Let's stop that unfair comparison.

Honestly man, this screams personal bias to me. I get it, you are a huge Romeo fan but their demeanors on the court aren't that different. Romeo makes incredibly stupid, selfish plays to end games that remind me of Vonleh. Can't really compare the Vonleh sitting thing unless Romeo gets injured like Vonleh did. 

What makes Romeo so different? It has to be more than being from Indiana and signing autographs. 

Vonleh has come back to IU games. It's time we either accept he wasn't some terrible problem or we start acting like Romeo is. I personally think it's pretty obvious neither is a problem; I'll take either of them on my team every year. 

[rico]

5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Are you on a Windows or a Mac user? Trying to figure out which person who left college early you're supporting as you talk about hating it. 

It is obviously Eric Gordon.......I think.  LOL

[IU Scott]

19 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Honestly man, this screams personal bias to me. I get it, you are a huge Romeo fan but their demeanors on the court aren't that different. Romeo makes incredibly stupid, selfish plays to end games that remind me of Vonleh. Can't really compare the Vonleh sitting thing unless Romeo gets injured like Vonleh did. 

What makes Romeo so different? It has to be more than being from Indiana and signing autographs. 

Vonleh has come back to IU games. It's time we either accept he wasn't some terrible problem or we start acting like Romeo is. I personally think it's pretty obvious neither is a problem; I'll take either of them on my team every year. 

Well Romeo had ever opportunity to sit out the rest of the PU game when he got sick at halftime but he came back and played.

[IU Scott]

25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Are you on a Windows or a Mac user? Gates and Jobs both left college early to go pro. 

What does that have to do with anything because Miles is only saying he don't like seeing one and done players at IU and I agree with that.  We have had 3 ad none of them really helped IU have a real successful season. Gordon would have if it was not for the scum of Sampson but in the end none of them got us very far.  To me in the long run it would probably have been more beneficial for IU's long term success to bring in another player besides Romeo who would have been here for 3 or 4 years.

[Steubenhoosier]

23 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

What does that have to do with anything because Miles is only saying he don't like seeing one and done players at IU and I agree with that.  We have had 3 ad none of them really helped IU have a real successful season. Gordon would have if it was not for the scum of Sampson but in the end none of them got us very far.  To me in the long run it would probably have been more beneficial for IU's long term success to bring in another player besides Romeo who would have been here for 3 or 4 years.

It’s not so much what Romeo did or didn’t do this year. It’s more the message that CAM was not going to let all the high end talent leave the state for the likes of Michigan State, Ohio State, UCLA, etc. as it did under the previous coach.

 

[Maedhros]

22 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yep, Romeo improving, Al shooting decently, but a team badly needing shooting. Looking more and more like the Vonleh team. 

Looking like the Vonleh year would be an improvement. We hold that year up as the example of a team lacking shooters, and we're not wrong to do so. Vonleh was over 48%, but on just 33 attempts. Yogi hit at 40%. Evan Gordon and Will Sheehey made just a third of their threes. No one else shot better than the low 20's. Yet that team as a whole was 34% from three on the season, good for 177th in the country. In Big Ten play we were over 36%, good for third in the conference! 

This year's team is not less talented than that 2014 team. Before going 0-7 these last two games, Al was shooting over 40%. Devonte was at 39% after Minnesota as well. Rob was shooting close to 45% prior to his concussion. Even Juwan was shooting over 38% as recently as our home game against Iowa. We have a career 40% shooter on the roster in Evan Fitzner, and a freshman recruit for whom his outside shot was considered his outstanding skill. Yet for all that, our team this year shoots 30.8% from three, ranking 329th in the country! In Big Ten play we shoot just 26.3%, placing us dead last in the conference.

We don't have a Matt Roth, a Nick Zeisloft, or even a James Blackmon on this roster, but we have enough competent pieces to be better than we are. We're not just last in the conference this year; as noted at Inside the Hall we're currently the worst 3-point shooting Big Ten team in the KenPom era. I see a stark difference in outcome with, at worst, comparable talent. When that happens, it's tough for me to think it's just a problem of the roster, and not also of the system.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, Maedhros said:

Looking like the Vonleh year would be an improvement. We hold that year up as the example of a team lacking shooters, and we're not wrong to do so. Vonleh was over 48%, but on just 33 attempts. Yogi hit at 40%. Evan Gordon and Will Sheehey made just a third of their threes. No one else shot better than the low 20's. Yet that team as a whole was 34% from three on the season, good for 177th in the country. In Big Ten play we were over 36%, good for third in the conference! 

This year's team is not less talented than that 2014 team. Before going 0-7 these last two games, Al was shooting over 40%. Devonte was at 39% after Minnesota as well. Rob was shooting close to 45% prior to his concussion. Even Juwan was shooting over 38% as recently as our home game against Iowa. We have a career 40% shooter on the roster in Evan Fitzner, and a freshman recruit for whom his outside shot was considered his outstanding skill. Yet for all that, our team this year shoots 30.8% from three, ranking 329th in the country! In Big Ten play we shoot just 26.3%, placing us dead last in the conference.

We don't have a Matt Roth, a Nick Zeisloft, or even a James Blackmon on this roster, but we have enough competent pieces to be better than we are. We're not just last in the conference this year; as noted at Inside the Hall we're currently the worst 3-point shooting Big Ten team in the KenPom era. I see a stark difference in outcome with, at worst, comparable talent. When that happens, it's tough for me to think it's just a problem of the roster, and not also of the system.

The thing with looking at percentages over limited pieces of time / games as opposed to conference play or full season is it paints an inaccurate picture. What you're seeing now is a team lacking consistent good shooters -- because that's what this team is. Rob was never remotely a 45% deep shooter. That really doesn't mean more than he could hit over a limited period of time. Same goes for Juwan -- he's not a 38% deep shooter. He is, though, a better shooter than what he's doing now, that looks like a confidence issue, not a system issue. System issues don't prevent people from hitting outside shots, especially not open shots, and we are missing a ton of open outside shots, because we lack consistent good outside shooting, and that is comparable to the Vonleh team.

[Maedhros]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

The thing with looking at percentages over limited pieces of time / games as opposed to conference play or full season is it paints an inaccurate picture. What you're seeing now is a team lacking consistent good shooters -- because that's what this team is. Rob was never remotely a 45% deep shooter. That really doesn't mean more than he could hit over a limited period of time. Same goes for Juwan -- he's not a 38% deep shooter. He is, though, a better shooter than what he's doing now, that looks like a confidence issue, not a system issue. System issues don't prevent people from hitting outside shots, especially not open shots, and we are missing a ton of open outside shots, because we lack consistent good outside shooting, and that is comparable to the Vonleh team.

I included Juwan and for Rob for the purpose of comparing to the 2014 roster, for reasons of quantity of shooters, more than quality. I agree neither is a consistent deep threat. Juwan has been abysmal in conference play. Rob might get there as a shooter, but I'd be shocked if hits at 45% for his career, and even if he does we're not getting that this season as we works his way back from his concussion.

But I disagree that system issues don't prevent us from missing outside shots. I watched Purdue set off-ball screens in their first two possessions of the second half last week, getting open looks from Cline and Edwards. I don't know that I've ever seen us set an off-ball screen. We don't move much without the ball period. We have trouble getting anything set up in the half court, and too often put something up because the shot clock is winding down. Small wonder we don't hit those. We settle for what the defense gives us, like when we settled for trying to shoot over Iowa's zone. We also rank in the 300s in total attempts and attempt rate, so we can't be getting that many open shots. We can agree to disagree, but I feel any confidence issues on the team stem from our lack of emphasis and gameplanning for the three, and are a symptom of our offensive dysfunction, not the cause of it. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

20 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I included Juwan and for Rob for the purpose of comparing to the 2014 roster, for reasons of quantity of shooters, more than quality. I agree neither is a consistent deep threat. Juwan has been abysmal in conference play. Rob might get there as a shooter, but I'd be shocked if hits at 45% for his career, and even if he does we're not getting that this season as we works his way back from his concussion.

But I disagree that system issues don't prevent us from missing outside shots. I watched Purdue set off-ball screens in their first two possessions of the second half last week, getting open looks from Cline and Edwards. I don't know that I've ever seen us set an off-ball screen. We don't move much without the ball period. We have trouble getting anything set up in the half court, and too often put something up because the shot clock is winding down. Small wonder we don't hit those. We settle for what the defense gives us, like when we settled for trying to shoot over Iowa's zone. We also rank in the 300s in total attempts and attempt rate, so we can't be getting that many open shots. We can agree to disagree, but I feel any confidence issues on the team stem from our lack of emphasis and gameplanning for the three, and are a symptom of our offensive dysfunction, not the cause of it. 

I think we see different things when it comes to the O. There's simply no question the team is missing a ton of open looks. We don't have the shooters needed.

[milehiiu]

Inexplicably, Vonleh was Big Ten freshman of the year.  Based on his most recent games, I have a hard time visualizing Romeo getting that honor. 

[BGleas]

3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I think we see different things when it comes to the O. There's simply no question the team is missing a ton of open looks. We don't have the shooters needed.

Agree. I'm not saying we have some innovative, amazing offense, but it's also not like Archie is some offensively challenged coach. I see guys missing numerous wide open shots every game. We miss numerous completely wide-open 3's every game. This offense gets open shots, we need to develop, and more likely recruit, shot-makers. We need some guys that can hit open shots consistently, and we also need some guys that can hit tough shots when needed. This roster doesn't have either. 

[BGleas]

26 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Inexplicably, Vonleh was Big Ten freshman of the year.  

Why inexplicably? He almost averaged a double-double as a freshmen.

[Steubenhoosier]

22 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Inexplicably, Vonleh was Big Ten freshman of the year.  Based on his most recent games, I have a hard time visualizing Romeo getting that honor. 

Again, just because Vonleh didn't play the last game of his career, you continue to bad mouth him.

Here was the B1G All-Freshman team for 2013-14 and their most important statistics.

Vonleh  11.3 ppg  9.0 rbg   Only Freshman to average in double figures on the team

Kendrick Nunn--Illinois  6.2 ppg  1.7 rbg

Nigel Hayes--Wisconsin   7.7 ppg  2.8 rbg

Kendall Stephens--Purdue   8.0 ppg  1.8 rbg

Derrick Walton Jr. --Michigan  7.9 ppg  3.0 rbg  3.0apg

Vonleh was named Freshman of the week 7 times. 

Hayes 4 times

Nunn twice

Walton once

Stephens none

 

How is this inexplicable except to someone who has an issue with Vonleh not playing his last game? Unbiased both coaches and media named him FOY.

[Zlinedavid]

46 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Inexplicably, Vonleh was Big Ten freshman of the year.  Based on his most recent games, I have a hard time visualizing Romeo getting that honor. 

Was he good for the overall growth of the program? Call it neutral. 

Was he good for the team in the year he was here? No. 

Did his presence produce better results than if he wasn't here? Again, call it neutral. 

But on an individual level, kid was a hoss.  And that's what POY awards are based on. 

[dgambill]

19 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

It’s not so much what Romeo did or didn’t do this year. It’s more the message that CAM was not going to let all the high end talent leave the state for the likes of Michigan State, Ohio State, UCLA, etc. as it did under the previous coach.

 

Yes. Look at the teams those one and dones played on. Imagine Romeo playing with Zeller, Oladipo, and company. You put a OAD on a bad roster it probably won’t have an effect. You put them on a team that just made a s16 run that returns most it’s best talent and you may have a NC team. You can’t predict when they come along...you just hope when something special does you have the right team to take advantage. Even if we got one a year that is still 12 schollys to build a program with. Just need a good upper class team with a superstar freshman to see it work. But you don’t stop recruiting them...you keep taking them and eventually you will have the right team around them...otherwise when you have a good team you won’t be in position to take the OAD because you haven’t been recruiting them.

[milehiiu]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Why inexplicably? He almost averaged a double-double as a freshmen.

I have been saying for years.  IMHO Vonleah was not a team player.  He would constantly take the ball inside, get double and triple teamed, and constantly was forcing the ball up, with out ever looking for the open man/ men.  His game to me was all about him.  Strange in that, that is something I proposed  two weeks ago, Romeo do.  Romeo to me, is too much team, and not enough him.

[milehiiu]

1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Again, just because Vonleh didn't play the last game of his career, you continue to bad mouth him.

Here was the B1G All-Freshman team for 2013-14 and their most important statistics.

Vonleh  11.3 ppg  9.0 rbg   Only Freshman to average in double figures on the team

Kendrick Nunn--Illinois  6.2 ppg  1.7 rbg

Nigel Hayes--Wisconsin   7.7 ppg  2.8 rbg

Kendall Stephens--Purdue   8.0 ppg  1.8 rbg

Derrick Walton Jr. --Michigan  7.9 ppg  3.0 rbg  3.0apg

Vonleh was named Freshman of the week 7 times. 

Hayes 4 times

Nunn twice

Walton once

Stephens none

 

How is this inexplicable except to someone who has an issue with Vonleh not playing his last game? Unbiased both coaches and media named him FOY.

I started casting shade Vonleh's way well before his last game in Candy Stripes.  Stats don't tell the whole story.  Always forcing the ball in traffic. Double and triple coverd. Yet. Never even attempting to look for an outlet.

By the way.... Vonleh's last game was in the Big Ten Tournament. Where he played 32 minutes and scored a whopping 6 points, in a first round loss to of all teams.....Illinois  !

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

I have been saying for years.  IMHO Vonleah was not a team player.  He would constantly take the ball inside, get double and triple teamed, and constantly was forcing the ball up, with out ever looking for the open man/ men.  His game to me was all about him.  Strange in that, that is something I proposed  two weeks ago, Romeo do.  Romeo to me, is too much team, and not enough him.

Not sure that has much to do with winning the conference freshmen of the year? He was clearly, far and away the best freshmen in the conference that season. If it was a close race, then maybe those things factor in.

Also, that team was terrible and poorly coached. The guards were awful at shooting and awful at getting the ball to the post, so while Vonleh did make some bad decisions down low at times, I can't entirely blame him for that. When you don't get the ball as much as you should, but when you do get the ball you convert at a high rate vs. bricks being shot when you pass out, coupled with being poorly coached and a young big (a position where it takes time to develop), I don't really blame him too, too much.