Jump to content

How do you want Iu to build their roster


Recommended Posts

Having a debate on another site about one and done players and I said that it is great that there are no one and done players in the final four.  I want us to build like Villanova and even UNC where a lot of their players were ranked between 25/80 in their class.  Some want us to build it like UK or Duke and don't care if we have to turn the roster over every year.  I just want more out of my college program than just being a minor league for the NBA and want kids interested in going. to school as well.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to have a good mix of the two.  Somewhere between Villanova and Duke, but further toward the Villanova end of the spectrum.  I would love to bring in a Bagley or Romeo type recruit every year, that automatically can carry a team for a few wins by themselves, as long as they fit within the team.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

I would like to have a good mix of the two.  Somewhere between Villanova and Duke, but further toward the Villanova end of the spectrum.  I would love to bring in a Bagley or Romeo type recruit every year, that automatically can carry a team for a few wins by themselves, as long as they fit within the team.

This is how I am. Ideally I can tune into the McDonald's All-American game each year and see one of our recruits, but I'd like a consistent team. Robert didn't flourish this year like I thought he did, but I'd love to see kids like him who improve year by year and eventually lead the team their senior year. I'd love a player like Devonte Graham on most of my teams. I'll take a Bagley though too haha.

I absolutely don't want a Kentucky team. My dad went to UK and is a huge UK fan, but the roster turnover drives him crazy. Their fanbase doesn't know their own roster decently until the conference schedule starts. I'd hate that.

At this point though, just give me a winning team. Once we start winning I'll get picky.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/villanova/villanova-final-four-march-madness-freshmen-collin-gillespie-dhamir-cosby-roundtree-jermaine-samuels-20180326.html?amphtml=y&mobi=true

 

This is what we need more of.. Jermaine Samuels was a top 50 recruit. He accepted his role because he wants to win. I'll bet he is a different player as a SO and A JR. TEAM TEAM TEAM. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hate to mention them right now, but Arizona seems to build strong teams year in and year out with high 4-* and 5-* players, but don't seem like a one and done factory. I am assuming Sean is clean and the Arizona accusation was a misunderstanding (haven't heard anything further on this) as a basis for me wanting IU to follow their recruiting plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One and dones, academically ineligible players, Trippers like Grayson, and guys ranked purely on perceived athleticism with no consideration of basketball skill.

:coffee:

Or, mix of genuinely elite 5 star talents (Romeo), 2-4 year high 3-4 star players with demonstrable shooting, on-ball floor leadership, athleticism, length, quickness and rebounding, and upside - effort players  with demonstrated D / two-way players. For all - actual academics, academic eligibility 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Having a debate on another site about one and done players and I said that it is great that there are no one and done players in the final four.  I want us to build like Villanova and even UNC where a lot of their players were ranked between 25/80 in their class.  Some want us to build it like UK or Duke and don't care if we have to turn the roster over every year.  I just want more out of my college program than just being a minor league for the NBA and want kids interested in going. to school as well.

There is no other site.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, a good bit of joy is having a team full of players you follow for 4 years.  The disruption to the roster, trying to keep classes balanced and the lack of consistency is not worth it.  There is nothing appealing about the way Kentucky does things, and over time, it is proving to be a crap shoot for them.  Calipari has had some success his way, but it does not appeal like a veteran-laden team.  

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fundamentals said:

To me, a good bit of joy is having a team full of players you follow for 4 years.  The disruption to the roster, trying to keep classes balanced and the lack of consistency is not worth it.  There is nothing appealing about the way Kentucky does things, and over time, it is proving to be a crap shoot for them.  Calipari has had some success his way, but it does not appeal like a veteran-laden team.  

 

Totally agree with this post

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Fundamentals said:

To me, a good bit of joy is having a team full of players you follow for 4 years.  The disruption to the roster, trying to keep classes balanced and the lack of consistency is not worth it.  There is nothing appealing about the way Kentucky does things, and over time, it is proving to be a crap shoot for them.  Calipari has had some success his way, but it does not appeal like a veteran-laden team.  

 

 

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Totally agree with this post

Posted this on the Romeo thread but thought better here.  I agree with you Fundementals and IU Scott. I would love to get Romeo.  However, I'm not as enamored with the 5* OAD Me first kids--Not necessarily saying Romeo is a Me first.  Looking at the FF this year confirms my belief that we are much better in the long term with 3-4* 4yr players that CAM develops in the weight room and on the court if we want to consistently be in the hunt for another banner.  Just can't agonize over the loss of the 5*.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a good discussion and one that tends to develop and pop up in different variations -- when we're excelling and when we're crashing. I do think you need some genuinely elite players, whether they are 5-star ranked guys or guys who turn out to be elite (e.g., Vic, OG), but also agree chasing 5-stars and one and dones without building a strong core of 2-4 or 3-4 year players rolls the dice on the program annually. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been thinking about how guys leaving early have affected IU.  Here are some what ifs?

We have Big Mac in '73

We have Isiah in "82 and '83

We have Edwards in '90 and '91

We have Haston in '02

We have JJ in '03 and '04

We have Vic and Cody in '14

We have Cody and Vonleh in '15

Don't what my point here is other than to say early entrants have affected our program's results.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the one and done era only 3 teams have won a national title, (edit: with a one and done on the roster) Duke, Kentucky, and North Carolina last year. Duke and UK are 1 and done factories. UNC is the model for roster building to me. They get highly skilled multi year players, even if they are 5* out of high school. They will get a one and done, but their roster isn’t filled with them. 

Beyond that I think you build to fit your scheme and today’s trends. Archie seems to want length at all positions and a floor general to lead the team. The pack line defense is one of the best defensive options. Having tremendous length at every position will just enhance the defense further. 

Shot makers. With the 3 pt line, we need multiple guys who can shoot 40% + from behind the line. Also kids need to be winners and mentally tough. 

Edited by Feathery
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

In the one and done era only 3 teams have won a national title, Duke, Kentucky, and North Carolina last year. Duke and UK are 1 and done factories. UNC is the model for roster building to me. They get highly skilled multi year players, even if they are 5* out of high school. They will get a one and done, but their roster isn’t filled with them. 

Beyond that I think you build to fit your scheme and today’s trends. Archie seems to want length at all positions and a floor general to lead the team. The pack line defense is one of the best defensive options. Having tremendous length at every position will just enhance the defense further. 

Shot makers. With the 3 pt line, we need multiple guys who can shoot 40% + from behind the line. Also kids need to be winners and mentally tough. 

Villanova didn't win a NC during that time? What about Lville.. sanctions aside? Connecticut x2?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Feathery said:

In the one and done era only 3 teams have won a national title, Duke, Kentucky, and North Carolina last year. Duke and UK are 1 and done factories. UNC is the model for roster building to me. They get highly skilled multi year players, even if they are 5* out of high school. They will get a one and done, but their roster isn’t filled with them. 

Beyond that I think you build to fit your scheme and today’s trends. Archie seems to want length at all positions and a floor general to lead the team. The pack line defense is one of the best defensive options. Having tremendous length at every position will just enhance the defense further. 

Shot makers. With the 3 pt line, we need multiple guys who can shoot 40% + from behind the line. Also kids need to be winners and mentally tough. 

2017 North Carolina (33-7) Roy Williams 71-65 Gonzaga Phoenix, Ariz.
2016 Villanova (35-5) Jay Wright 77-74 North Carolina Houston, Texas
2015 Duke (35-4) Mike Krzyzewski 68-63 Wisconsin Indianapolis, Ind.
2014 Connecticut (32-8) Kevin Ollie 60-54 Kentucky Arlington, Texas
2013 Louisville (35-5)* Rick Pitino 82-76 Michigan Atlanta, Ga.
2012 Kentucky (38-2) John Calipari 67-59 Kansas New Orleans, La.
2011 Connecticut (32-9) Jim Calhoun 53-41 Butler Houston, Texas
2010 Duke (35-5) Mike Krzyzewski 61-59 Butler Indianapolis, Ind.
2009 North Carolina (34-4) Roy Williams 89-72 Michigan State Detroit, Mich.
2008 Kansas (37-3) Bill Self 75-68 (OT) Memphis San Antonio, Texas
2007 Florida (35-5) Billy Donovan 84-75 Ohio State Atlanta, Ga.
2006 Florida (33-6) Billy Donovan 73-57 UCLA Indianapolis, Ind.
2005 North Carolina (33-4) Roy Williams 75-70 Illinois

St. Louis, Mo.

Edited by IU Scott
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

above is the list of all champions since the one and done era so there are more champions that the poster above mentioned.  Since the one and done era only 3 champions had a one done player on their roster.  Actually I think it started in 2006 so I went back one to many years.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, rico said:

I have been thinking about how guys leaving early have affected IU.  Here are some what ifs?

We have Big Mac in '73

We have Isiah in "82 and '83

We have Edwards in '90 and '91

We have Haston in '02

We have JJ in '03 and '04

We have Vic and Cody in '14

We have Cody and Vonleh in '15

Don't what my point here is other than to say early entrants have affected our program's results.  

It's an interesting hypothetical, but it's a game every strong program can make. I know you're not implying it, but we aren't' the only ones who have had early entrants affect our program. If, for instance, the NCAA had a 3 year rule we would have had much stronger teams, but so would Michigan, Michigan St., Purdue, etc. Just imagine Kentucky and Duke. 

I do think Crean more than most coaches would've benefitted from keeping his players longer because a) he wasn't getting a huge portion of one and done talent anyway and b) I believe that he didn't adapt to his players as much as he had his players adapt to his style - meaning it takes players longer to be more comfortable and play better in his system. 

Side note - writing that made me think of how the recruiting field would be leveled if the NBA imposed a 2 or 3 year college rule. UK and Duke would still get theirs, but if they weren't forced to fill in the spots vacated by their one and dones those top recruits would be distributed to other programs. 

Edited by tdhoosier
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

One and dones, academically ineligible players, Trippers like Grayson, and guys ranked purely on perceived athleticism with no consideration of basketball skill.

:coffee:

Or, mix of genuinely elite 5 star talents (Romeo), 2-4 year high 3-4 star players with demonstrable shooting, on-ball floor leadership, athleticism, length, quickness and rebounding, and upside - effort players  with demonstrated D / two-way players. For all - actual academics, academic eligibility 

 

I agree with the mix approach, and the list of qualities that you have noted. I would add to that list the idea of toughness, or toughmindedness.

I have been harping on this for several years, and feel that it is an area we need to address as a program. In looking at the Final 4 teams this year, one thing that I see in common is a toughness component. Villanova--see the W. Virginia game and how they basically destroyed the Mountaineers when they were down by 6 with 10 minutes to go. Izzo said that his is the toughest Michigan team he has ever faced. Kansas demonstrated their toughness down the stretch in the Duke game, but frankly they did so throughout the year in coming back from consecutive home court losses to win both the regular season and the conference tournament in a year where the Big 12 was extremely tough. Loyola, winning 3 games in a row in the tournament in the last few seconds illustrates the point.

We have had kids that have had that single-minded toughness, that quality of refusing to let us lose, in the past. Fife and Coverdale. The Graham boys. Buckner.  More, I am sure. I think we have been lacking that quality the last few years, and it has shown on the court. Amongst all the items that have been mentioned in this thread, I hope Archie can find a kid like Brunson from Villanova who is such a great player, but who can also seemingly will his team to win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

Villanova didn't win a NC during that time? What about Lville.. sanctions aside? Connecticut x2?

Lol  I left a key part out of my statement I’ll go back and edit it  

One and done era is 2006 till now. Only 3 teams, that I listed above, had a one and done on the roster and won the entire thing. Everyone else had multi year players. Not every 5* is a one and done.

Edited by Feathery
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

I agree with the mix approach, and the list of qualities that you have noted. I would add to that list the idea of toughness, or toughmindedness.

I have been harping on this for several years, and feel that it is an area we need to address as a program. In looking at the Final 4 teams this year, one thing that I see in common is a toughness component. Villanova--see the W. Virginia game and how they basically destroyed the Mountaineers when they were down by 6 with 10 minutes to go. Izzo said that his is the toughest Michigan team he has ever faced. Kansas demonstrated their toughness down the stretch in the Duke game, but frankly they did so throughout the year in coming back from consecutive home court losses to win both the regular season and the conference tournament in a year where the Big 12 was extremely tough. Loyola, winning 3 games in a row in the tournament in the last few seconds illustrates the point.

We have had kids that have had that single-minded toughness, that quality of refusing to let us lose, in the past. Fife and Coverdale. The Graham boys. Buckner.  More, I am sure. I think we have been lacking that quality the last few years, and it has shown on the court. Amongst all the items that have been mentioned in this thread, I hope Archie can find a kid like Brunson from Villanova who is such a great player, but who can also seemingly will his team to win.

Oh I absolutely agree toughness is important -- Fife and Cov are two of my favorite Hoosiers. But then you have to include guys like Vic, Sheehey, Hulls , Yogi, and others. Sometimes guys come in from HS as tough-never-back-down players,  Fife, Vic, etc., sometimes they develop it over time (Watford became a tough-minded player, for example). Guys who leave everything on the floor are huge parts of a winning culture --  and they don't have to be the stars.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope Archie lands the 5th. year senior transfer from the University of Evansville ! He is  a big [ 6'6" ] EXPERIENCED GUARD who could lend some VETERAN Experience  to a youngish group of guards in 2018-2019 !! And , if he does not get Romeo Langford , I would like to see him get another 5th. year Senior transfer or even a Quality JUCO player !!

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...