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Is Mack a better hire than Archie?


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Please don't roast me because I do like Archie very much but it's kinda irritating that Louisville got their first choice even with the possible dumpster fire that's about to happen and we arguably did not get our first choice (depending on if you trust what Glass said or not). His record seems a bit better and he has done it in a better conference than Dayton. I realize that X underachieved in the conference and NCAA tourney this year but they've been a darn good team all year. Plus Mack seems to recruit our state very well which worries me a little bit. 

Edited by DunkinDipo
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1 minute ago, DunkinDipo said:

Please don't roast me because I do like Archie very much but it's kinda irritating that Louisville got their first choice even with the possible dumpster fire that's about to happen and we arguable did not get our first choice (depending on if you trust what Glass said or not). His record seems a bit better and he has done it in a better conference than Dayton. I realize that X underachieved in the conference and NCAA tourney this year but they've been a darn good team all year. Plus Mack seems to recruit our state very well which worries me a little bit. 

How do you know UL got their first choice.  Unless you were in their meetings you have no idea who they went after or who turned them down.  Why not wait 3-4 years and come back to see who was the best hire.  Archie was not on the top of my wish list but I will give him a few years until I judge him.

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I would say Mack is probably a better hire than Archie was, based solely off of their resumes.  Doesn’t mean Mack will end up being more successful than Archie in the long run, but he’s more accomplished than Archie at this point.  But I would say a big reason Louisville landed him is the fact they gave him $4M a year for 7 years.  That’s a good bit more than the 7 year, $3.35M per year contract we gave Archie.

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Given what Archie has done recruiting wise in this state and elsewhere in year 1.....let alone getting us 9 wins in Big 10 with the roster construction he inherited and losing Davis, Hartman...I could care less about the comparisons or what Louisville has going on. 

 I'm very happy with Archie and the staff he's assembled. I'll worry about Louisville in 2020 or 2021 when the NCAA gets done with their program. 

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2 hours ago, DunkinDipo said:

Please don't roast me because I do like Archie very much but it's kinda irritating that Louisville got their first choice even with the possible dumpster fire that's about to happen and we arguable did not get our first choice (depending on if you trust what Glass said or not). His record seems a bit better and he has done it in a better conference than Dayton. I realize that X underachieved in the conference and NCAA tourney this year but they've been a darn good team all year. Plus Mack seems to recruit our state very well which worries me a little bit. 

Listen to Pete Gillian who coached Mack at Xavier on 1430am this afternoon.  He said Mack has told him that he does not want to be a coaching Lifer and doesn't think Mack will coach more than 5 or 6 years more.  He thought taking the money now will give him a chance to make the money and walk away in a few years.

 

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You could make that argument but if you offered a trade between these two today, I'd keep the one we have without hesitation.  I really really like what Archie is building at IU and I don't know if Mack could duplicate that.  Take the known over the unknown anytime.

That being said, the Mack hire is way better than I though Louisville could do given the uncertainty they are facing.

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56 minutes ago, Ryno6284 said:

Don't underestimate the power that the poon has over a man!  I have a feeling the wife had a say in this.

 

How is this relevant to the topic? Mack's wife is from Louisville and sure he might be in Louisville in part to that (and the fact that Louisville more than doubled his salary), but that has nothing to do with Mack vs. Archie.

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It sure seems like he was their first choice. Donovan wasn't coming to UofL because he's still doing well in the NBA and that would be completely killing his relationship with Pitino. Say what you want about Pitino (it's all likely true), but he and Donovan had a near father-son relationship. Donovan played for Pitino, Pitino hired him as an assistant at Kentucky, mentored him and gave him his rolodex. I have mentors in my life and I'd never stab my mentor in the back by jumping into the position my mentor thinks he was wrongfully ousted from (I know that is a joke but Pitino believes it).

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3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

How do you know UL got their first choice.  Unless you were in their meetings you have no idea who they went after or who turned them down.  Why not wait 3-4 years and come back to see who was the best hire.  Archie was not on the top of my wish list but I will give him a few years until I judge him.

Well I can't prove anything but I live close to Louisville and have friends with connections to the program. Everyone I have spoken to said he was at the top of their list. Take it FWIW. 

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Mack is a good hire for UofL. Archie was a good hire for IU. We'll see how it shakes out, but overall I don't think the coaching landscape is very fertile right now. Maybe Gregg Marshall would've been another decent name for UofL and us. Many UofL fans had interest in Kenny Payne. Payne is a nice assistant coach, but that'd be a horrible hire. UofL, sanctions or not, can do better than Payne...and did. There are quite a few coaches out there for second tier schools, but there really aren't many good options out there, who are established good coaches from good schools who would be homerun hires, for schools like IU and UofL. The only one besides Marshall that I could think of would be Beilein and he's not stepping into the UofL mess.

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Don't get me wrong, I love Archie so far. I was just wondering what you guys thought. I just hope that we didn't miss out on any bigger names because we wouldn't pony up the cash that I'm sure we have like Louisville just did to get their guy. That's all I'm saying. While I'm pretty much sold on Archie at this point, I'm still not sold on Glass. 

Regardless, I'm betting on some fierce recruiting battles against him in the near future. There was an article out saying that he has already reached out to Romeo. While I'm sure it's probably too late at this point, it shows that he is going to be a relentless recruiter. 

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No. Archie is a better coach (I said the same last year when we were talking coaches). Or, at least, one with more potential.

Mack's a good guy... but he's just a good coach, not a elite one. His reputation gets a big bump from a couple upset tournament runs as bad seeds (fun runs, but not super predictive of future success). As an example: sure, X had a really good team this year (though probably closer to a top 10ish team than top four - 1 seed was definitely deserved on resume, but resume was bolstered by squeaking out too many close wins against inferior teams), but with much of the same talent last year X barely made the tournament.

Don't get me wrong - it isn't as if Mack is a disaster; he's very solid. But consistently underperforming defenses, inconsistent teams, inability to beat elite teams, and year-to-year inconsistencies do not make one an elite coach.

And I say all this as a Xavier fan who is disappointed to lose Mack.

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32 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I'm trying to remember if most fans had Mack ranked higher on the wish list than Miller.  I don't think that was the case even though I believe he got plenty of mentions.

I did not.  I seem to remember that prior to last year's run, he was about to be on the hot seat.  I believe his first year on the job he took s Miller's Guys to sweet 16 then limped into tourney as 11 last year and had that great run and all the sudden he's elite?  Not so fast.  

I don't remember very many wanting Mack too strongly or having him high.  

For me it was Donovan way out above then Miller leading the 2nd charge, with G Marshall.  

Edit: fact checked myself.  Lol.  Either way I think Mack is good not great.  

Edited by NotIThatLives
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Mack by year - keeping in mind he took over an excellent team that was well set-up in 2010 when Sean Miller left.

KenPom overall rating/defense rating/NCAA tournament seed

2010: 18 overall/47 defense/6 seed
2011: 38 overall/58 defense/6 seed 
2012: 53 overall/49 defense/10 seed
2013: 78 overall/64 defense/no tournament
2014: 52 overall/76 defense/12 seed
2015: 21 overall/56 defense/6 seed
2016: 14 overall/22 defense/2 seed
2017: 31 overall/67 defense/11 seed
2018: 15 overall/60 defense/1 seed

 

 

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You know, not sure why we are having this conversation just now.

CAM has been CAM  for all of one season and already there are some ready to question the hiring. As someone else said, who cares who anyone else has hired? All that matters to me is that Archie moves the program forward to where all of us want it to be. 

 

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Archie is better. Mack is a solid recruiter and Tom Crean level in game coach. I didn’t even have Mack on my list of coaches when IU was looking. Louisville can have him. Mack can collect a huge payday. When sanctions hit UL, Mack can decide to retire and enjoy the rest of his life or move on to another lucrative job. 

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