Peegs Preseason B1G Rankings

[Stlboiler23]

29 minutes ago, Snozzwangers_und_covfefe said:

I'll confidently say Archie is head and shoulders above the pork butt in W. Laf.  Archie is going to prove that he's one of the top 2-3 coaches in the BiG within 2-3 years.  Mark it down. It'll be Izzo, Archie and Chris Collins if he's still around.

Pork butt? That's a new one. 

[JerseyHoosier]

35 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Pork butt? That's a new one. 

That one gave me a chuckle. I like it. 

[BGleas]

15 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

It certainly wouldn't be 4-1, but I don't think it's a good way to just say who is better at each spot and decide better starting lineup by that anyway.  For instance, if Haas has a slight edge of Davis but RoJo has a big edge over Edwards then that's not a 1:1.  However, I'll play along and say:

Haas and Davis is too close to call.  Davis was really coming on at the end of the year, has transformed his body and has more raw talent.  

Edwards over Morgan -- but this is closer than you probably think if you look at their advanced numbers.  Morgan is much better on the glass and finishes much better at the rim.  Edwards is the better overall player though.

SF is really hard to say, who knows how Hartman will look or if maybe Smith starts.  Having said that, probably leans Mathias either way

Johnson is easily the choice at 2 guard.  Can you name a single thing Edwards is better at?  He had a nice freshman year but Johnson was better, even with a terrible slump, in every single way.  

Newkirk.  They're pretty close, both are about even at setting guys up, Thompson takes better care of the ball and Newkirk is a much better scorer.  Both are above average defenders.  I also expect Newkirk to take a bigger jump as it's his second year back from a knee injury.  

 

So Purdue has a better front court, IU has a better back court and better depth.  Coaching we can call a wash, I guess, since Archie has coached but I feel pretty confident Archie is better than Pork Chops. 

Another thing about IU and Purdue, caveat I admittedly don't know Purdue's roster up and down, but I don't think Purdue has guys off the bench such as CuJo for example who has the ability to make a major leap in production this season. I bring this up because CuJo struggled last year as we all know, and I don't know what happens with him this year, but I do know that if he pulls it all together he has the ability to be  breakout player in the Big Ten. He's a guy that with improvement and consistency could be a double-digit scorer. 

I'm not sure Purdue has as many "if they improve" guys that could be breakout players this year. It's not a guarantee, but if IU has a few of those guys (CuJo, Green, Smith, etc.) come through than the season will look a lot different. I guess i'm saying Purdue has more guys that we kind of know what we're getting and are solid, consistent guys, where IU has more high ceiling guys but we don't know how many will reach that ceiling. If more do than not, then IU can be a top 3-4 team, if more don't than do then IU can be around 7-9. 

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Another thing about IU and Purdue, caveat I admittedly don't know Purdue's roster up and down, but I don't think Purdue has guys off the bench such as CuJo for example who has the ability to make a major leap in production this season. I bring this up because CuJo struggled last year as we all know, and I don't know what happens with him this year, but I do know that if he pulls it all together he has the ability to be  breakout player in the Big Ten. He's a guy that with improvement and consistency could be a double-digit scorer. 

I'm not sure Purdue has as many "if they improve" guys that could be breakout players this year. It's not a guarantee, but if IU has a few of those guys (CuJo, Green, Smith, etc.) come through than the season will look a lot different. I guess i'm saying Purdue has more guys that we kind of know what we're getting and are solid, consistent guys, where IU has more high ceiling guys but we don't know how many will reach that ceiling. If more do than not, then IU can be a top 3-4 team, if more don't than do then IU can be around 7-9. 

I think this is true, but I don't know that they have a lot more of the solid, consistent guys either.  Johnson, Newkirk, Morgan and Hartman would all fall into that category IMO despite RoJo's slump.  I just can't remember Painter ever having a team that was better than average without having a bonified star -- and Vince Edwards is not a bonified star. 

[IU Scott]

This is how I see the top of the big ten

MSU, PU, NW, Minnesota, Iowa, IU, UW, Michigan

[Stlboiler23]

42 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think this is true, but I don't know that they have a lot more of the solid, consistent guys either.  Johnson, Newkirk, Morgan and Hartman would all fall into that category IMO despite RoJo's slump.  I just can't remember Painter ever having a team that was better than average without having a bonified star -- and Vince Edwards is not a bonified star. 

What is your definition of a "bonafied star?" Who would fall in that category? 

[FW_Hoosier]

44 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Another thing about IU and Purdue, caveat I admittedly don't know Purdue's roster up and down, but I don't think Purdue has guys off the bench such as CuJo for example who has the ability to make a major leap in production this season. I bring this up because CuJo struggled last year as we all know, and I don't know what happens with him this year, but I do know that if he pulls it all together he has the ability to be  breakout player in the Big Ten. He's a guy that with improvement and consistency could be a double-digit scorer. 

I'm not sure Purdue has as many "if they improve" guys that could be breakout players this year. It's not a guarantee, but if IU has a few of those guys (CuJo, Green, Smith, etc.) come through than the season will look a lot different. I guess i'm saying Purdue has more guys that we kind of know what we're getting and are solid, consistent guys, where IU has more high ceiling guys but we don't know how many will reach that ceiling. If more do than not, then IU can be a top 3-4 team, if more don't than do then IU can be around 7-9. 

I think Purdue fans would probably say that Ryan Cline and Carsen Edwards have just as much potential to break out as Jones and Green.  I've also seen them talking about Nojel Eastern and Aaron Wheeler as freshmen that could potentially be difference makers.  Eastern is a 6'6 SG that was the #67 recruit in the 2017 class, and Wheeler is a 6'8 SF that was ranked #140.

[Stlboiler23]

10 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I think Purdue fans would probably say that Ryan Cline and Carsen Edwards have just as much potential to break out as Jones and Green.  I've also seen them talking about Nojel Eastern and Aaron Wheeler as freshmen that could potentially be difference makers.  Eastern is a 6'6 SG that was the #67 recruit in the 2017 class, and Wheeler is a 6'8 SF that was ranked #140.

Agree here. I really like Eastern and Wheeler. 

[FW_Hoosier]

30 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

What is your definition of a "bonafied star?" Who would fall in that category? 

Carl Landry, JaJuan Johnson, E'Twaun Moore, Robbie Hummel, and Biggie are probably the only bonafied stars Painter has ever had.  Not sure if AJ Hammons belongs in that group.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said:

What is your definition of a "bonafied star?" Who would fall in that category? 

A guy who can contend for CPOTY.  I don't see Edwards as being that guy.  He isn't a Miles Bridges, Ethan Happ.

If you actually look at Edwards numbers they're hardly distinguishable from Robert Johnson.  The biggest difference is IU fans are disappointed in how RoJo played and Purdue fans think Edwards is a star.  

[KoB2011]

Purdue did not have a single player, sans Swanigan, make 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-League from the coaches.  Sure, they return most of the team from last year but it's the guys who weren't even good enough to be recognized on the best team in the league.  

[Stlboiler23]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Purdue did not have a single player, sans Swanigan, make 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-League from the coaches.  Sure, they return most of the team from last year but it's the guys who weren't even good enough to be recognized on the best team in the league.  

Haas, Edwards, and Mathias were all honorable mention all-B1G. I think each of them absolutely has a legit chance to make the All-B1G team this year. Vince also made the 3rd team team chosen by the media. I think Carsen will be at least honorable mention All-B1G this year if not better.  

[hoosiertildeath]

Boiler must be high on loco weed if he thinks IU is only the 8th. best eam in the Big Ten ! LMAO !!

[hoosiertildeath]

It is understandable that Stlboiler would by high on pee yew !1 However, he must be high on "LOCO WEED" if he thinks Indiana University is only the best team in the Big Ten !! Here is how I rate the Big ten mens Basketball for 2017-2018 !

#1- Michigan State

#2, #3 #4 TIE- Indiana , Minnesota , & Maryland !

#5-Northwestern { I had to switch Maryland & Northwestern }

#6. Michigan

#7.Wisconsin

#8 pee yew

#9 Iowa

#10-Illinois

#11-Penn State

#12-Ohio State

#13-Nebraska

#14-Rutgers  

If Stlboiler can pick IU 8th.  [on his list] then I can pick pee yew 8th. [ON MY LIST] as well, VERY BIG GRIN !! MUCK THE BOILERS!! BANNERS UP !!!! boiler DOWN !!

[Stlboiler23]

45 minutes ago, hoosiertildeath said:

Boiler must be high on loco weed if he thinks IU is only the 8th. best eam in the Big Ten ! LMAO !!

 

What is wrong with me picking them 8th? You guys lost 3 extremely talented players and that will sting. That plus the uncertainty with a new coach is why I'm picking them 8th. 

[IU Scott]

34 minutes ago, hoosiertildeath said:

It is understandable that Stlboiler would by high on pee yew !1 However, he must be high on "LOCO WEED" if he thinks Indiana University is only the best team in the Big Ten !! Here is how I rate the Big ten mens Basketball for 2017-2018 !

#1- Michigan State

#2, #3 #4 TIE- Indiana , Minnesota , & Maryland !

#5-Northwestern { I had to switch Maryland & Northwestern }

#6. Michigan

#7.Wisconsin

#8 pee yew

#9 Iowa

#10-Illinois

#11-Penn State

#12-Ohio State

#13-Nebraska

#14-Rutgers  

If Stlboiler can pick IU 8th.  [on his list] then I can pick pee yew 8th. [ON MY LIST] as well, VERY BIG GRIN !! MUCK THE BOILERS!! BANNERS UP !!!! boiler DOWN !!

Love your loyality to IU but there is no way they will finish 8th or behind IU.  I think PU will finish 2nd in the Big Ten behind MSU

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

 

What is wrong with me picking them 8th? You guys lost 3 extremely talented players and that will sting. That plus the uncertainty with a new coach is why I'm picking them 8th. 

I think you are only looking at one side of the court when you look at the players we lost.  We might score less but with Miller you will see IU better on the defensive end.

[Stlboiler23]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think you are only looking at one side of the court when you look at the players we lost.  We might score less but with Miller you will see IU better on the defensive end.

I'm looking at the overall picture. You lost your best defender in OG and your best scorer. Sure Blackmon was atrocious on defense but he was really good offensively. You lost a really good big man in Bryant and now Davis has no one behind him at the 5 spot so if he gets in foul trouble, you guys will probably have to go small. 

[milehiiu]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think you are only looking at one side of the court when you look at the players we lost.  We might score less but with Miller you will see IU better on the defensive end.

Nail.  Meet hammer. 

[milehiiu]

5 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I'm looking at the overall picture. You lost your best defender in OG and your best scorer. Sure Blackmon was atrocious on defense but he was really good offensively. You lost a really good big man in Bryant and now Davis has no one behind him at the 5 spot so if he gets in foul trouble, you guys will probably have to go small. 

Small ball.  Matters not. IMHO.  We have done this before.  What's more important, to me, is what's in the heart of a Hoosier.  Harken back to 2002. 

Don't take this personally.  You know I love ya. 

[Leathernecks]

On 8/20/2017 at 4:01 PM, NY hoosier said:

If Archie is the coach we all hope he is, top 4

My thoughts exactly.

I don't buy into the excuses of being his first year here.  He'll have months and months to get the team in his system and get them ready for his coaching style.  They might not be his exact players, but most of our players are pretty versatile.  It's not like we have a lot of one dimensional guys out there who can only shoot, only defend, only be plodders in the post, etc.  Our players should easily mold into his system.

If he's the coach we want him to be, a top 4 finish should be the expectation this year.  Doesn't mean he'll be crucified if we don't finish there, but I think that should be the expectation.

[milehiiu]

Getting off topic here.  But that's ok. And one of the many things I love about HSN.  Flow of consciousness.

They say :"The apple does not fall far from the tree".

In terms of who the better coach is.  Forget about Painter.  I am looking at Ryan's (oop's Archie's) brother at Arizona.  And if asked, I would have to say, between the two, Sean is the better of the two.  Only because Archie has not had a spot on the big stage, like his bro.

So, today, between Archie and Sean.... I would have to place my money on Sean.

However.... knowing how competitive and serious Ryan ( oop's , Archie ) is about the game of BB..... I am sure given time, I will move my bet from Sean to Archie, as to who is the best college basketball coach.... if not in the country, at least in the Miller family.  

 

 

[KoB2011]

8 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I'm looking at the overall picture. You lost your best defender in OG and your best scorer. Sure Blackmon was atrocious on defense but he was really good offensively. You lost a really good big man in Bryant and now Davis has no one behind him at the 5 spot so if he gets in foul trouble, you guys will probably have to go small. 

This isn't specific to you, but it's hard to make sense of arguments about bad teams losing these valuable pieces. If they were so irreplaceable then why did a team that had three of those pieces so bad?

There are IU fans making this argument too and I simply don't understand it. 

[5fouls]

I think everyone (media, IU Fans, Fans from other teams) would be holding IU in a lot higher regard if Billy Donovan would have been hired as coach.  And, that is simply wrong. If Archie is the coach we think he is, then he should be able to get this team in the Top 5 of the B1G.  Picking IU 7, 8, 9, or 10 in the conference based on our roster compared to the other teams in the conference is short-sighted.  If the coaching search had played out differently, the focus would not be on the time it takes to learn a new system if Donovan was the coach, rather it would be about the heights he could take the program.  And, that's not fair to Archie. 

I said it before, but it's worth repeating.  If IU finishes 8th in conference this season, it's not what should be 'expected'.  It's a HUGE disappointment, and the coaches, players, or some combination of both, have underperformed.

We, as fans, seem to be buying into the argument put forth by an uneducated media.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I think everyone (media, IU Fans, Fans from other teams) would be holding IU in a lot higher regard if Billy Donovan would have been hired as coach.  And, that is simply wrong. If Archie is the coach we think he is, then he should be able to get this team in the Top 5 of the B1G.  Picking IU 7, 8, 9, or 10 in the conference based on our roster compared to the other teams in the conference is short-sighted.  If the coaching search had played out differently, the focus would not be on the time it takes to learn a new system if Donovan was the coach, rather it would be about the heights he could take the program.  And, that's not fair to Archie. 

I said it before, but it's worth repeating.  If IU finishes 8th in conference this season, it's not what should be 'expected'.  It's a HUGE disappointment, and the coaches, players, or some combination of both, have underperformed.

We, as fans, seem to be buying into the argument put forth by an uneducated media.

I am not that sure bout that because if you look at Donavan's record at Florida he had a few years that were below average and missed the tournament.