Morgan withdraws from NBA draft

[Hoosier82]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

When taking everything into consideration, OG is a better basketball player than Juwan. With that said, Juwan may be better in terms of pure basketball skill, but to be a great player you need a combination of skill, athleticism, length, etc., not one or the other, and OG's combination of all of those things make him a much better player. 

Morgan is and really always has been better than OG, however OG has a much higher ceiling. I see OG continuously improving his jump shot, handles and court presence while also continuing to get bigger/stronger and more formidable on the defensive end of the game. I see Juwan being mostly more of the same with hopefully slightly better shooting and ball handling but never progressing into NBA level talent, especially physically/athletically. Very good college player,...with some work this off-season, could be great but probably never going to make it in the NBA.

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

Morgan is and really always has been better than OG, however OG has a much higher ceiling. I see OG continuously improving his jump shot, handles and court presence while also continuing to get bigger/stronger and more formidable on the defensive end of the game. I see Juwan being mostly more of the same with hopefully slightly better shooting and ball handling but never progressing into NBA level talent, especially physically/athletically. Very good college player,...with some work this off-season, could be great but probably never going to make it in the NBA.

OG was better as a FR and as a SO. I don't think he would have been as dominate offensively this past season though as Juwan was. 

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

Morgan is and really always has been better than OG, however OG has a much higher ceiling. I see OG continuously improving his jump shot, handles and court presence while also continuing to get bigger/stronger and more formidable on the defensive end of the game. I see Juwan being mostly more of the same with hopefully slightly better shooting and ball handling but never progressing into NBA level talent, especially physically/athletically. Very good college player,...with some work this off-season, could be great but probably never going to make it in the NBA.

I disagree. OG is better now. No chance in the world Juwan would walk into the NBA today and start on a 50-win team. He's not good enough and OG is. Yes, OG's ceiling is higher too, but he's better today. Would OG average as many points if he played for IU last season? Maybe, maybe not, but scoring a ton of points isn't necessarily what makes him so good. 

[Hoosier82]

13 minutes ago, btownqb said:

OG was better as a FR and as a SO. I don't think he would have been as dominate offensively this past season though as Juwan was. 

I'm factoring in that Juwan was always hurt as a FR/SO playing with a bum shoulder. I could be wrong but I think if Morgan were healthy he would have outplayed OG those first two years. I wasn't impressed by OG his freshmen year and even before he got hurt as a sophomore  I never felt like he produced much. Morgan showed the ability to dominate.

@BGleasEven starting in the NBA (I presume because of his defense because his stat lines were horrible this season) OG didn't contribute much as a rookie. I agree with you that Morgan wouldn't start over OG in the NBA this season but forgive me if I think what Morgan did last season at IU was more impressive than the 6pts, 2.5rbs and .7 assists per game he mustered as a "starter" in the NBA who only actually got 20 minutes per game because he frankly wasn't productive enough....he was just the only defensive presence they had. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

I'm factoring in that Juwan was always hurt as a FR/SO playing with a bum shoulder. I could be wrong but I think if Morgan were healthy he would have outplayed OG those first two years. I wasn't impressed by OG his freshmen year and even before he got hurt as a sophomore  I never felt like he produced much. Morgan showed the ability to dominate.

@BGleasEven starting in the NBA (I presume because of his defense because his stat lines were horrible this season) OG didn't contribute much as a rookie. I agree with you that Morgan wouldn't start over OG in the NBA this season but forgive me if I think what Morgan did last season at IU was more impressive than the 6pts, 2.5rbs and .7 assists per game he mustered as a "starter" in the NBA who only actually got 20 minutes per game because he frankly wasn't productive enough....he was just the only defensive presence they had. 

You're leaving the defensive end out of the equation entirely. Morgan is a very solid defender, OG is an elite one and a versatile one. You are honestly comparing their performances this year?

[btownqb]

OG is a better basketball player. Juwan would have scored more pts than OG if they were both JRs... thats it. 

[Hoosier82]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

You're leaving the defensive end out of the equation entirely. Morgan is a very solid defender, OG is an elite one and a versatile one. You are honestly comparing their performances this year?

Elite defender? Please...he's a good defender, for a rookie...He doesn't score, rebound, make assists, block shots or get steals at a rate anyone would consider above average. "Comparing" their seasons is apples to oranges. I'm just simply stating that I was more impressed with the work Morgan did than I was of OG in his rookie season. OG doesn't start for any other team in the NBA this season....the Raptors had a need and he filled it but elite defenders put up more than 2.5 rebounds, .7 steals and .2 blocks per game.

To be clear, I don't think Morgan is leaps and bounds better than OG at this point but if I needed to win a game, right now, I'm picking Morgan...if I'm putting together a team for the future I'm picking OG. 

[FW_Hoosier]

9 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

I'm factoring in that Juwan was always hurt as a FR/SO playing with a bum shoulder. I could be wrong but I think if Morgan were healthy he would have outplayed OG those first two years. I wasn't impressed by OG his freshmen year and even before he got hurt as a sophomore  I never felt like he produced much. Morgan showed the ability to dominate.

@BGleasEven starting in the NBA (I presume because of his defense because his stat lines were horrible this season) OG didn't contribute much as a rookie. I agree with you that Morgan wouldn't start over OG in the NBA this season but forgive me if I think what Morgan did last season at IU was more impressive than the 6pts, 2.5rbs and .7 assists per game he mustered as a "starter" in the NBA who only actually got 20 minutes per game because he frankly wasn't productive enough....he was just the only defensive presence they had. 

It wasn’t.  And OG was still more productive than Juwan when they were sophomores despite being injured even before the ACL tear.

[CapnRon]

25 minutes ago, btownqb said:

OG is a better basketball player. Juwan would have scored more pts than OG if they were both JRs... thats it. 

This is what I think too.  Even if the nba drafts on mostly potential/athleticism, you really can't compare an early 1st rounder with a borderline 2nd rounder.

[5fouls]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I disagree. OG is better now. No chance in the world Juwan would walk into the NBA today and start on a 50-win team. He's not good enough and OG is. Yes, OG's ceiling is higher too, but he's better today. Would OG average as many points if he played for IU last season? Maybe, maybe not, but scoring a ton of points isn't necessarily what makes him so good. 

You are looking at it strictly from a NBA perspective.  Was Dennis Rodman a better Bssketball plsyer than Damon Bailey.  One had a long and very successful NBA career.  The other was the better basketball player.

[5fouls]

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

OG is a better basketball player. Juwan would have scored more pts than OG if they were both JRs... thats it. 

Juwan was the better ball handler, a better rebounder, and had better decision making when both were at IU.

[HoosierFaithful]

OG will keep getting better at fundamentals, shooting, etc.

Juwan won't get substantially faster or be able to jump substantially higher.

OG is and will continue to be the better NBA player.  In many ways, because of the way he plays, Juwan was and would still remain the better CBB player.

[CapnRon]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

You are looking at it strictly from a NBA perspective.  Was Dennis Rodman a better Bssketball plsyer than Damon Bailey.  One had a long and very successful NBA career.  The other was the better basketball player.

That's tough to compare a rebounder with a Guard like that.  If you are saying a better basketball player is the guy with the higher basketball IQ then you may have a point, but that's only 1 part of what makes a player good.

[FW_Hoosier]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Juwan was the better ball handler, a better rebounder, and had better decision making when both were at IU.

And OG was the better scorer, shooter, and defender.  

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, CapnRon said:

That's tough to compare a rebounder with a Guard like that.  If you are saying a better basketball player is the guy with the higher basketball IQ then you may have a point, but that's only 1 part of what makes a player good.

Rodman had a world class skill, no doubt about it.  But thst does not diminish the fact that Damon was a GREAT all-around basketball player.  

 

[btownqb]

20 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Juwan was the better ball handler, a better rebounder, and had better decision making when both were at IU.

 He's not a better rebounder. Idk how you judge the decision making. Ball handler.. yeah. 

[rico]

9 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Rodman had a world class skill, no doubt about it.  But thst does not diminish the fact that Damon was a GREAT all-around basketball player.  

 

Now dammit, if there is one thing I hate......it is giving any props to the Worm!

[btownqb]

Scoring in college... that's honestly the only glaring advantage I see for Juwan. 

[FW_Hoosier]

Just now, btownqb said:

Scoring in college... that's honestly the only glaring advantage I see for Juwan. 

And OG was a better scorer both of the years they were both at IU.  Can’t really use Juwan’s performance this year against OG, especially when OG was starting on a number one seed in the NBA.  He could have been just as great a scorer as Juwan was this past season had he come back.

[5fouls]

9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

 He's not a better rebounder. Idk how you judge the decision making. Ball handler.. yeah. 

As a freshman,  Juwan averaged 9.4 boards per 40 minutes.  OG averaged 7.7.  As a sophomore, Juwan averaged 9.9 boards per 40 minutes.  OG averaged 8.7.  

[FW_Hoosier]

11 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

As a freshman,  Juwan averaged 9.4 boards per 40 minutes.  OG averaged 7.7.  As a sophomore, Juwan averaged 9.9 boards per 40 minutes.  OG averaged 8.7.  

And both years, OG had better per 40 averages in points, assists, blocks, and steals. He also had better shooting percentages on more attempts per 40 minutes.  They had fairly similar turnovers per 40 minutes, with Juwan being a little better, so I don’t think you can definitively say he was a better decision maker, especially when OG had better assist numbers.

[rico]

This OG vs. JuMo debate is moot.  OG was a first round pick and a starter in the Association now on a pretty good team.  'Nuff said.  

[5fouls]

8 minutes ago, rico said:

This OG vs. JuMo debate is moot.  OG was a first round pick and a starter in the Association now on a pretty good team.  'Nuff said.  

It's actually a decent example of potential versus performance and how fine the line is between being a NBA star versus never getting the chance.  Admittedly my Damon vs Rodmon comparison is a better example of my original argument.

[CapnRon]

55 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Rodman had a world class skill, no doubt about it.  But thst does not diminish the fact that Damon was a GREAT all-around basketball player.  

 

Rodman was a rebounding specialist, Bailey an all around great, just a bad comparison in my opinion.

[rico]

18 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

It's actually a decent example of potential versus performance and how fine the line is between being a NBA star versus never getting the chance.  Admittedly my Damon vs Rodmon comparison is a better example of my original argument.

I just wish you wouldn't have used Rodman.........maybe Kurt Rambis!!!!