Morgan withdraws from NBA draft

[FKIM01]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'm saying in June. It's the end of June, right?

Yeah I think the 21st of June. I thought you meant next week as in the next week in May.

At any rate, it turns out that the June 11th date is correct (ten days in front of the draft) but is rendered moot by the NCAA's May 30th deadline.

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

Yeah I think the 21st of June. I thought you meant next week as in the next week in May.

At any rate, it turns out that the June 11th date is correct (ten days in front of the draft) but is rendered moot by the NCAA's May 30th deadline.

Yes that's the date I was thinking for the draft.. just didn't explain myself well. I didn't realize there were separate dates for ncaa and NBA. So May 30th

[BGleas]

Would have been stunned if he got a combine invite, so not surprised at all that he didn't. I expect he'll try and secure a few team workouts before ultimately announcing his return sometime in mid-May before the deadline.

Teams are always looking for guys to fill out workouts with, so I'm sure he will be able to secure a few of those, though I do wonder how easy that it without an agent?

[IowaHoosierFan]

51 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Would have been stunned if he got a combine invite, so not surprised at all that he didn't. I expect he'll try and secure a few team workouts before ultimately announcing his return sometime in mid-May before the deadline.

Teams are always looking for guys to fill out workouts with, so I'm sure he will be able to secure a few of those, though I do wonder how easy that it without an agent?

I didn't really think about team workouts

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I didn't really think about team workouts

That's where the real value is. You get to workout in small group settings in front of the coaches, GM and other front office personnel.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

Just got an e-mail from 247 about updates on Juwan after his work outs, but unfortunately it's behind a pay wall.....

https://247sports.com/college/indiana/Article/The-latest-on-Indiana-forward-Juwan-Morgan-after-he-worked-out-for-NBA-teams-118132657?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=180510_180615_Indiana Hoosiers&utm_content=Image&liveconnect=CE-95-D4-0D-73-24-C7-7B-BA-44-7E-35-3C-55-4B-01180510_180615IndianaHoosiers

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

9 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Just got an e-mail from 247 about updates on Juwan after his work outs, but unfortunately it's behind a pay wall.....

https://247sports.com/college/indiana/Article/The-latest-on-Indiana-forward-Juwan-Morgan-after-he-worked-out-for-NBA-teams-118132657?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=180510_180615_Indiana Hoosiers&utm_content=Image&liveconnect=CE-95-D4-0D-73-24-C7-7B-BA-44-7E-35-3C-55-4B-01180510_180615IndianaHoosiers

Long story short, NBA scouts don't think he's ready. They want him to go back to school. If Juwan doesn't come back to IU, he'll be in the G League or overseas. The meat of the article is that the scouts don't think much of the interior game he showed last year. They don't think it translates to the NBA. They want to see him become a better shooter.

Rabjohns doesn't think Morgan would have a very lucrative career overseas, but that's just his opinion.

[Hoosierhoopster]

He’s coming back. He basically said as much earlier, about unfinished business, and now he’ll have Romeo and a strong incoming class with him. Next year he can shine and probably in a tourney run. 

[RJPaisley]

9 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

He’s coming back. He basically said as much earlier, about unfinished business, and now he’ll have Romeo and a strong incoming class with him. Next year he can shine and probably in a tourney run. 

And hopefully shut the mouths of all the nay-sayers about IU basketball. Time for us to get back to the elite status we know can be Indiana basketball. We have the coaching staff to get it done.

[5fouls]

10 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Long story short, NBA scouts don't think he's ready. They want him to go back to school. If Juwan doesn't come back to IU, he'll be in the G League or overseas. The meat of the article is that the scouts don't think much of the interior game he showed last year. They don't think it translates to the NBA. They want to see him become a better shooter.

Rabjohns doesn't think Morgan would have a very lucrative career overseas, but that's just his opinion.

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

[rico]

12 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with that take.  However, we never saw OG be "the man".  We got a small sample size of him.  

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

I agree with you, at this point. OG has a higher upside, but Juwan is better in almost every way on offense and he is a very good defender in his own right. He may not be the elite on ball defender OG is, but he isn't bad. 

I firmly believe, in the right NBA situation, Juwan can be a very important piece. I dont see a lot of things Draymond Green did at this stage that Juwan isn't doing. 

[rico]

20 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree with you, at this point. OG has a higher upside, but Juwan is better in almost every way on offense and he is a very good defender in his own right. He may not be the elite on ball defender OG is, but he isn't bad. 

I firmly believe, in the right NBA situation, Juwan can be a very important piece. I dont see a lot of things Draymond Green did at this stage that Juwan isn't doing. 

I have been preaching this for years, certain players need to fall into a certain situation.  Guys like Draymond Green, Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman did this.  I believe JuMo is more polished than OG but the sad fact is that OG's IU days were cut short.  

[Zuckerkorn]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

I definitely concur with what you are saying.  OG never truly excelled (in his brief stay while healthy) at anything other than being a superior athlete.  I think part of his legend at IU (OG) is based largely on potential and expectations, but they never really came to fruition because of his injury and subsequent move to the NBA.  OG's upside (particularly at IU in the college game) is/was immense and he certainly has greater appeal for NBA play.  Juwan, on the other hand, has developed and become a very good cbb player but may not have the same potential or appeal for NBA teams.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

This is definitely a debatable point and an interesting one. I don't think Morgan is the better player, but I can see good reasons for arguing that he is.

Unfortunately, we'll never see OG coached by CAM, and what that would have meant for how he played. That's also a point within this point. 

We can see how well OG is playing in the NBA, and it's a long, long way from "skills," it's how he reads the floor on both ends, its how well he defends the best players in the League, it's how well he's raised his 3-point game, it's how he moves without the ball. He's a contributing starter on the team that ended up with the best record in the East. He's a really, really good all-around two-way player. 

Meanwhile Morgan plays well beyond his level of athleticism. His positioning, reading of the defense, timing, effort level, and overall skill level is outstanding (still think he should've been first team B1G last season, confident he will be this season). I love his game. Who's better? probably comes down to subjective opinion, can't really see a way to measure that objectively.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree with you, at this point. OG has a higher upside, but Juwan is better in almost every way on offense and he is a very good defender in his own right. He may not be the elite on ball defender OG is, but he isn't bad. 

I firmly believe, in the right NBA situation, Juwan can be a very important piece. I dont see a lot of things Draymond Green did at this stage that Juwan isn't doing. 

Juwan needs to raise his 3-point game significantly, and his free throw shooting. I'm on record saying he can shoot -- I had the chance to watch what he did over the summer and got to see him up close for a while, when I was there, and he can shoot it, but he isn't doing that, at all consistently, in games.

He finished the season shooting 30% from the arc, as a junior. Then there's his free throw percentage, 63%. I'm a Morgan fan, but these are major holes in his offensive game right now. He needs to convert at the stripe, as a key forward.

But then if you compare OG's seasons at IU (not much stock in his soph season in which he was injured for most of it) OG actually had similarly poor shooting numbers for the most part -- he did shoot 45% from the arc in his frosh season, but a horrendous 48% from the stripe.

Meanwhile in his soph year Morgan shot 74% from the stripe, but only 25% from the arc. Basically I'm saying there's a lot of similarity in terms of the areas of his game that Morgan needs to improve, at least looking at when both were at IU.

For Toronto, OG shot 37% from the arc during the season, and 45% in the playoffs, while guarding the other teams' best players. He only shot 63% from the stripe during the season (that similarity continues), but raised it to 73% in the playoffs. He worked his way into being a regular starter for Toronto in his rookie year. He's an amazing player, right now. Morgan has a chance to raise his game this year, and if he can work on those holes in his game, he'll be a force regardless of perceived NBA upside -- though if he becomes a consistent 3-point shooter, I think he'd be drafted.

[Danomatic]

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

You could really tell how comfortable Crean was with Morgan as a sophomore. Morgan was definitely the more polished of the two, but I do think that OG has a higher ceiling. 

[KoB2011]

18 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Juwan needs to raise his 3-point game significantly, and his free throw shooting. I'm on record saying he can shoot -- I had the chance to watch what he did over the summer and got to see him up close for a while, when I was there, and he can shoot it, but he isn't doing that, at all consistently, in games.

He finished the season shooting 30% from the arc, as a junior. Then there's his free throw percentage, 63%. I'm a Morgan fan, but these are major holes in his offensive game right now. He needs to convert at the stripe, as a key forward.

But then if you compare OG's seasons at IU (not much stock in his soph season in which he was injured for most of it) OG actually had similarly poor shooting numbers for the most part -- he did shoot 45% from the arc in his frosh season, but a horrendous 48% from the stripe.

Meanwhile in his soph year Morgan shot 74% from the stripe, but only 25% from the arc. Basically I'm saying there's a lot of similarity in terms of the areas of his game that Morgan needs to improve, at least looking at when both were at IU.

For Toronto, OG shot 37% from the arc during the season, and 45% in the playoffs, while guarding the other teams' best players. He only shot 63% from the stripe during the season (that similarity continues), but raised it to 73% in the playoffs. He worked his way into being a regular starter for Toronto in his rookie year. He's an amazing player, right now. Morgan has a chance to raise his game this year, and if he can work on those holes in his game, he'll be a force regardless of perceived NBA upside -- though if he becomes a consistent 3-point shooter, I think he'd be drafted.

Free throw shooting he needs to improve, three point shooting is fine. He started the year in a slump but was good at it in conference play. 

He also has shown to be a good free throw shooter and does have good form. Not worried about his shooting. 

As far as the Draymond comparison goes, Dray isnt exactly an elite shooter either. 

[FW_Hoosier]

OG is a much better defender and three point shooter than Juwan right now.  That alone makes him a better player for the NBA right now, not even considering his higher ceiling.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Free throw shooting he needs to improve, three point shooting is fine. He started the year in a slump but was good at it in conference play. 

He also has shown to be a good free throw shooter and does have good form. Not worried about his shooting. 

As far as the Draymond comparison goes, Dray isnt exactly an elite shooter either. 

I am in no way shape or form, at all, a Golden State fan. I hope they go down to the Rockets (though I'm not really a Rockets fan either, too bad for me). That said, Draymond (who I really can't stand) led GS in both rebounds and assists. You're right he's not a very good outside shooter (at about 30%), but he does convert at better than 70% from the stripe, and I don't think you can really argue that Morgan is as athletic. Draymond is both strong and pretty athletic, Morgan is strong but his athleticism is a rung below. I like the comparison overall though -- you've been making it for some time, and I don't really disagree. By the same token, OG compares to Kawhi, and I think has similar upside, which he's already showing.

[Seeking6]

5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

OG is a much better defender and three point shooter than Juwan right now.  That alone makes him a better player for the NBA right now, not even considering his higher ceiling.

This is where I stand as well. Love Juwan and hopefully he comes back and has a great season...but I'll take OG all day long over Morgan. I mean 47% from field. 37% from 3. Started 62 games in his rookie year less than a year after torn ACL. Maybe I'll get killed for this but it isn't even close honestly. Not to mention his length, athleticism, defense,etc....

[cybergates]

3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

Interesting take. I disagree, but definitely think it close enough to be debatable. I think Juwan is a more skilled basketball player, but OG is better (I would pick him before Juwan to be on my team). His athleticism makes up for the skill discrepancy.

If OG would have stayed at IU and played last year, I think he would have had similar or better stats than Morgan did and been a better defender, and that Morgan's stats would have been reduced. Obviously, no way to know.

Another caveat is if OG stayed, he likely wouldn't have been back on the court as soon though, since he would have had additional responsibilities (academics, etc.) outside of only rehab/basketball in the NBA.

[Shooter]

4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I will probably get killed for this opinion.  In my mind Juwan is a better basketball player than OG.  It's just that OG possesses elite level skills valued by the NBA game.  Put them on the court together in a college game coached by Archie Miller and Juwan is the star of the team.

 

 

 

It really depends what role you need them to play. If I'm picking one of them to build IU's offense around like last season, I agree with you - I'm taking Morgan. If I'm picking one of them as a second banana alongside Romeo Langford - I'm not sure, tough call.

Anunoby is and will continue to be the better NBA player though, because his "3 and D" skill set is a perfect fit in the modern NBA. I don't see a NBA future for Juwan (but I've been wrong before).

[FW_Hoosier]

2 minutes ago, Shooter said:

It really depends what role you need them to play. If I'm picking one of them to build IU's offense around like last season, I agree with you - I'm taking Morgan. If I'm picking one of them as a second banana alongside Romeo Langford - I'm not sure, tough call.

Anunoby is and will continue to be the better NBA player though, because his "3 and D" skill set is a perfect fit in the modern NBA. I don't see a NBA future for Juwan (but I've been wrong before).

This is the issue.  Juwan is a great post player (better than OG ever was) and good all around playmaker in the college game, but I think he lacks the athleticism do those things as effectively at the NBA level.  Would love to be wrong about this though, and wouldn’t be that surprised if I was.

[BGleas]

When taking everything into consideration, OG is a better basketball player than Juwan. With that said, Juwan may be better in terms of pure basketball skill, but to be a great player you need a combination of skill, athleticism, length, etc., not one or the other, and OG's combination of all of those things make him a much better player.