Maud'Dib Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 great game by the P's. i shudder to think what the officiating will be like as the series gets further along. they certainly will do what they can to keep a small market team from taking down the darling of the nba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, Drroogh said: HH, no doubt Crean was incredible at identifying talent that could be developed and then did a very good job of developing that talent. But let's be honest the success was more in identifying the talent to begin with. Both OG and Victor have continued to develop their talent without Crean! Yes individual players did develop as defenders with his emphasis on deflections and such, but teaching defense was definitely not one of Crean's strong suits! No really, being honest is recognizing Crean’s development and not suggesting that they did it on their own. Vic was extenemely unpolished and fouled left and right defensively and had almost no offensive game as a frosh, he had boatloads if potential but it was absolutely Crean and staff’s development that got him there - as he will tell you, as Wade will (and has) said, as OG will tell you, etc. just because he was not the best in game defensive coach does not mean he didn’t play the significant role that he did in their development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: No really, being honest is recognizing Crean’s development and not suggesting that they did it on their own. Vic was extenemely unpolished and fouled left and right defensively and had almost no offensive game as a frosh, he had boatloads if potential but it was absolutely Crean and staff’s development that got him there - as he will tell you, as Wade will (and has) said, as OG will tell you, etc. just because he was not the best in game defensive coach does not mean he didn’t play the significant role that he did in their development Ok Crean can develop players, but I think we can both agree Crean was not very good at teaching team defense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUalum Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Vic developed a ton under Crean. As a freshman, i cringed every time he chucked up a three and looking at his stats, his soph year was worse . (31%. 21%) He only shot 26 as a freshman. Vic has always had a work ethic and he worked his tail off, and by accounts, it appears he still does. This is like "coaches lose games and players win them". Think there might be a balance in there somewhere. let's just celebrate Vic's game and feel good about it. Every time I open this site, i see 3 big red "Ls" in a row to end the season and it helps to have some alumni being successful. I was just pointing out some irony that two of Crean's players are being noticed for their defense, while most of Crean's teams were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Maybe the teams didn't end up with the results....but suggesting Crean couldn't develop NBA players and talent is just comical. Anyway...great Pacers win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, Drroogh said: Ok Crean can develop players, but I think we can both agree Crean was not very good at teaching team defense! It’s not like Crean can’t teach defense. You don’t get to his level and not know how to teach it. He just chose to not make it an emphasis of his program. He chose to spend most of his time on offense and make fast offense the identity of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 minute ago, BGleas said: It’s not like Crean can’t teach defense. You don’t get to his level and not know how to teach it. He just chose to not make it an emphasis of his program. He chose to spend most of his time on offense and make fast offense the identity of the program. Yep. And historically there have been programs that won and won big with that emphasis. Not sure which way is the best. I know defense always travels and will win regular season games....but you also always need shooters/scorers. I don't know where that fine balance is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 59 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: They changed the rules on contact, particularly on the perimeter, to spur increased scoring as that’s what fans want. It’s much easier for guards to score today, no doubt, but then the talent and shooting ability of today’s guards / point guards is fantastic I just would love to see what Jordan, Wilkins and George Gerivn would do with today's rules. They all averaged over 30+ppg when the defense could grab and clutch you. Also today the players can just go to the basket and know nothing will happen to them. Today's players don't have to worry about a Bill Lambier or Rick Mahorn coming over to knock your head off. How much Laron whines and cries today I couldn't imagine how much he would cry if he played back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno6284 Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 hour ago, IUalum said: Where did Victor and OG learn to play defense? Vic leads the league in steals this year. He has exploded. they are double teaming him and trying to keep the ball out of his hands. 32 pts with 2 min to go. Special player Hey coach Crean, how is Athens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno6284 Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 I'm not a Pacers fan, but I love when LeBron loses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 I think it's fair to say Tom Crean could develop individual skills at a very high-level. It didn't translate into what we wanted as a team, but there are too many examples of individuals improving under him in major ways across a wide variety of skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 I was beginning to think some of our posters were wanting Crean to still be IU's coach?? Yes, players most definitely developed under Crean but ???? Sorry for besmirching the legacy of Tom Crean?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Drroogh said: I was beginning to think some of our posters were wanting Crean to still be IU's coach?? Yes, players most definitely developed under Crean but ???? Sorry for besmirching the legacy of Tom Crean?? People are just giving Crean props for an area that was a strength of his. He had flaws that were ultimately fatal for his career at IU but developing players for the league doesn't appear to be one of them. Lots of Crean's former players doing well in the league. If you want to see really ineffective coaching, look no further than Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 43 minutes ago, Drroogh said: I was beginning to think some of our posters were wanting Crean to still be IU's coach?? Yes, players most definitely developed under Crean but ???? Sorry for besmirching the legacy of Tom Crean?? I was fairly adamant about wanting him gone; I just don't see the value in exaggerating his shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 If you have yet to come to Bankers life to watch this team play, not better time then now on this upcoming Friday or Sunday evening. 6 year season ticket holder here, the playoffs are on another level compared to the regular season not to mention they are playing Lebron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said: If you have yet to come to Bankers life to watch this team play, not better time then now on this upcoming Friday or Sunday evening. 6 year season ticket holder here, the playoffs are on another level compared to the regular season not to mention they are playing Lebron. Just imagine if the P's win game 2 as well and the P's are looking to go up 3-0. Game 2 is going to be a war, this may be turning into a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Just imagine if the P's win game 2 as well and the P's are looking to go up 3-0. Game 2 is going to be a war, this may be turning into a great series. I get so excited thinking about if they go up 2-0 and return to Bankers life with home court. I just hope they don't come out slow on Wednesdays game and make Sundays game look like it was a one time thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, dwtaylor1055 said: If you have yet to come to Bankers life to watch this team play, not better time then now on this upcoming Friday or Sunday evening. 6 year season ticket holder here, the playoffs are on another level compared to the regular season not to mention they are playing Lebron. My son who is 18 and a senior in high school surprised me and bought us tickets to game 3 of the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: My son who is 18 and a senior in high school surprised me and bought us tickets to game 3 of the playoffs That is awesome! It will be a great game and atmosphere for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 48 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Just imagine if the P's win game 2 as well and the P's are looking to go up 3-0. Game 2 is going to be a war, this may be turning into a great series. I think the Pacers can win it after seeing the game yesterday. I'm not sure who the Cavs can put on Oladipo to slow him down. How gimmicky can they get on defense? They started the game with LBJ on Collison and Hill on Oladipo and that didn't work. They tried to double Vic and that mostly didn't work. They won't shoot so poorly every game, but i think the Pacers are a tough matchup for Cleveland (and everyone in the East). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 I think they will try to double hard at half court force him to give it up and that IMO is playing with fire. If we can move ball quickly to open shooter it could be lights out. If Vic cuts hard after the pass big problems for the Cavs. Playoff defense is a whole new level and I really think we have the weapons to destroy any gimmick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I think the Pacers can win it after seeing the game yesterday. I'm not sure who the Cavs can put on Oladipo to slow him down. How gimmicky can they get on defense? They started the game with LBJ on Collison and Hill on Oladipo and that didn't work. They tried to double Vic and that mostly didn't work. They won't shoot so poorly every game, but i think the Pacers are a tough matchup for Cleveland (and everyone in the East). Vic and the P's were impressive as hell in that game. The Cavs' D has been so bad (it's like the second to worst in the NBA entering the playoffs) the big question has been whether LeBron flipping the playoff switch would carry over that poor D. Sure didn't in game 1. But they did pull within 7 at one point, when LeBron got aggressive. I think we'll see LeBron take over in game 2, and there's really no one on the P's that can stop him. As to stopping Vic, we'll probably see more of the double-team (like they used on PG last season) - but the difference is their D, outside of LeBron, is bad right now, so that's going to be interesting to watch. The other wild card is Love. He did next to nothing offensively in game 1, I'd expect to see him scoring in game 2. I tend to think game 2 is going to be a very different game, but if it's not, I think it will be because of how weak the Cavs' D is right now, and that would be big for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Vic and the P's were impressive as hell in that game. The Cavs' D has been so bad (it's like the second to worst in the NBA entering the playoffs) the big question has been whether LeBron flipping the playoff switch would carry over that poor D. Sure didn't in game 1. But they did pull within 7 at one point, when LeBron got aggressive. I think we'll see LeBron take over in game 2, and there's really no one on the P's that can stop him. As to stopping Vic, we'll probably see more of the double-team (like they used on PG last season) - but the difference is their D, outside of LeBron, is bad right now, so that's going to be interesting to watch. The other wild card is Love. He did next to nothing offensively in game 1, I'd expect to see him scoring in game 2. I tend to think game 2 is going to be a very different game, but if it's not, I think it will be because of how weak the Cavs' D is right now, and that would be big for sure. I don't want to complain about the refs in what ended up being a blowout, but every Cavs run was aided by some really questionable calls. Either missed non-calls or really weak calls against the Pacers. It was ridiculous. Lebron could've, maybe should've, been ejected in the first quarter and didn't even receive a tech for either transgression. I get the star treatment in the NBA, but when one guy can hold up the game multiple times with his antics (both of which plays I'm thinking of are techs by the book) and not get anything it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I don't want to complain about the refs in what ended up being a blowout, but every Cavs run was aided by some really questionable calls. Either missed non-calls or really weak calls against the Pacers. It was ridiculous. Lebron could've, maybe should've, been ejected in the first quarter and didn't even receive a tech for either transgression. I get the star treatment in the NBA, but when one guy can hold up the game multiple times with his antics (both of which plays I'm thinking of are techs by the book) and not get anything it's ridiculous. Yeah I know, just like last year and every year LBJ gets the superstar treatment, especially in Cleveland. Goes with the territory, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 The refs will not allow the Cavs to go down 0-2. I hate it but the NBA is as close to a sport being fixed as can be. I would love to be DMBHoosiered, (wrong) but in the end LeBron will whine and flop and unfortunately the Cavs prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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