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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

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^^ I think the days of what we've called "true centers" are gone, at least for the time being. Mobile, versatile forwards (e.g., Anthony Davis) are today's game.

But I also don't think you write off a guy who looks more like a traditional center. Guys like Boogie can develop well, obviously, and at 6'11 and 270 or so, he was dominating this season before his injury. He was a 25% or so outside shooter early in his NBA career, became a 35% outside shooter by last season (and 37% the prior season), and could still dominate down low. Versatility is key. Davis is dealing with a serious injury from which he may not get to the level he can play at, and his game is not a get up and down the floor game, but he is a very talented player, and premature to write off, imo.

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jblaz13

jblaz13

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32 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I get what you're saying, but stretching the floor opens driving and passing lanes, it's not simply a matter of outside shooting, and it's a chicken or the egg thing -- you can't stretch the floor without having guys who force perimeter coverage -- it is the ability to stretch the floor that makes a team more than one dimensional. (If I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here, my apologies, it's how I'm reading your post.)

It does when its being executed properly, but this offense will already be relying upon an awful lot of youth in the back court stepping up their games to replace the recent departures. 

I'll always agree with what you're saying too since stretching the floor is a luxury that can be effective enough without a true post if they're converting possessions into points. Plus  managing the defensive post, and erasing outside  shooters on opposing teams.The bottom line doesn't change there.. I'm definitely happy IU appears to be afforded that to a greater extent this year,.

It just got really frustrating watching Haas have his way down low, and I think we missed De'Ron the most in that particular game. in hindsight, if Haas doesn't help himself to so many mostly easy points it changes the trajectory of a season possibly.

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jblaz13

jblaz13

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27 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'm simply not a fan of DD's game. I don't see the need for a true center. Nova didn't have one, why do we? None of the NBA teams left have a true center. 

Fair enough being your own personal choice and we might not need that role  in Archie's system when it's all said and done for all I know. lol

Romeo and Fitzner were huge gets for IU!. It's all about the W's and execution in the end.  I'm not going  to feel too much worse about their chances even if DD doesn't materialize  into more, but I'll be stoked if he carves out his own niche. Due to his injury we may never know how good he could have been, but I think it's not over til it's over. Clifton elevating his game to utilize his length on both ends would alleviate my concerns a  great deal.  The team took time to gel more , and it's hard to see a solid  kid like De'Ron not figuring it out as well. That is if his body allows him. 

Has anyone had any  recent word on his recovery and rehab process? 

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BGleas

BGleas

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24 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

^^ I think the days of what we've called "true centers" are gone, at least for the time being. Mobile, versatile forwards (e.g., Anthony Davis) are today's game.

But I also don't think you write off a guy who looks more like a traditional center. Guys like Boogie can develop well, obviously, and at 6'11 and 270 or so, he was dominating this season before his injury. He was a 25% or so outside shooter early in his NBA career, became a 35% outside shooter by last season (and 37% the prior season), and could still dominate down low. Versatility is key. Davis is dealing with a serious injury from which he may not get to the level he can play at, and his game is not a get up and down the floor game, but he is a very talented player, and premature to write off, imo.

I think the key phrase you wrote there is "versatility is key", and Davis is just not a versatile player on either end. I think he can improve his shot out to 15ish feet which would help, but just due to sheer athletic limitations he'll always be a player that can be exploited defensively by a team with a few good shooters. 

Look at the type of bigs Archie is looking at now, Forrester, Thompson, TJD, etc., these are bigs that can play inside and out, they can defend the block and defend the perimeter. With Forrester and TJD they're long and athletic. For the most part, this is the type of big we're going to see going forward. 

I think Davis has a specific skill set that can be very valuable to this team in certain situations, but also that his limitations will make it difficult for him to play big minutes in the regular rotation. 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I think the key phrase you wrote there is "versatility is key", and Davis is just not a versatile player on either end. I think he can improve his shot out to 15ish feet which would help, but just due to sheer athletic limitations he'll always be a player that can be exploited defensively by a team with a few good shooters. 

Look at the type of bigs Archie is looking at now, Forrester, Thompson, TJD, etc., these are bigs that can play inside and out, they can defend the block and defend the perimeter. With Forrester and TJD they're long and athletic. For the most part, this is the type of big we're going to see going forward. 

I think Davis has a specific skill set that can be very valuable to this team in certain situations, but also that his limitations will make it difficult for him to play big minutes in the regular rotation. 

To me, the inside and out is the key issue.

If you recall, one of the big criticisms of the Crean era was that his team had no answer when it was forced into a half court game. The offense became stagnant and predictable. Last year, Archie showed that we could play that type of game, and win, if needed. We do need kids that can play the traditional 5 if , for no other reason, we are forced to slow the game down and play a more deliberate game. Having kids that can shoot and stretch, as well as being able to play with their backs to the basket may be asking a lot, but in a perfect world we'd have one or two such players on every team.

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BGleas

BGleas

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22 hours ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

To me, the inside and out is the key issue.

If you recall, one of the big criticisms of the Crean era was that his team had no answer when it was forced into a half court game. The offense became stagnant and predictable. Last year, Archie showed that we could play that type of game, and win, if needed. We do need kids that can play the traditional 5 if , for no other reason, we are forced to slow the game down and play a more deliberate game. Having kids that can shoot and stretch, as well as being able to play with their backs to the basket may be asking a lot, but in a perfect world we'd have one or two such players on every team.

You don't need a big post player to have a good half-court offense, and to get lots of paint points. But even with that said, Morgan is the best post player on the roster. The reason Crean's half-court offense often failed wasn't necessarily because of a lack of post play, it was because of a lack of ball and people movement, no off ball screens, etc. I think Archie has proven that those issues shouldn't be the case anymore. But yes, Crean definitely could have made going to Zeller, Vonleh and Bryant on the block more of an emphasis, I don't disagree there, but again Morgan is our best on the current team, and his value is that he can also play outside. It goes back to versatility. 

But tons of successful half court offenses don't have post players. The best offense I saw last year was Villanova and they didn't have a post player, their "5" shot over 40% from 3. The whole pace/space thing doesn't just mean play fast and uptempo, it's means to create space in the half-court so that your athletes and play makers (Romeo, Morgan, Green, Smith, etc.) can get to the rim and into the lane and create/make plays from there. You don't need a traditional 5 for that. If anything, a traditional 5 makes that more difficult. 

I do think Davis can have a role/impact on this team, if healthy, but I think it will be pretty situational. 

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rcs29

rcs29

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-IU wins B1G regualr season

-IU loses in semi-finals of conference tournament

-Juwan and Romeo are 1st team all-conference

-Demezi Anderson averages 7PPG+ during conference season

-IU loses in 2nd Rd. of NCAA tournament as a 5 seed

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NotIThatLives

NotIThatLives

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5 hours ago, rcs29 said:

-IU wins B1G regualr season

-IU loses in semi-finals of conference tournament

-Juwan and Romeo are 1st team all-conference

-Demezi Anderson averages 7PPG+ during conference season

-IU loses in 2nd Rd. of NCAA tournament as a 5 seed

Wouldn't the Big Ten Champion have better than a 5 seed in the tournament?  

 

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rico

rico

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14 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I knew someone was going to say that. That has to be one of the most rare outliers in tournament history.

Not if you think about it.......the committee was being cute.  They wanted us to play UK.

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rcs29

rcs29

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15 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Wouldn't the Big Ten Champion have better than a 5 seed in the tournament?  

 

See 2016. Also my thought takes into account that the non-con portion of the schedule won't go wonderfully due to the youth of the roster but come Feb/March we will be in stride and win the B1G regular season.

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19 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Sage Steele will find herself strangely drawn to talking about the Colts on SportsCeneter.  :coffee:

Sage Steele will find herself strangely drawn to talking about IU football on SportsCenter

:cheers:

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KoB2011

KoB2011

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With regards to half court offense, everyone should watch the Rockets and Warriors series. Yes, there will be running but those two teams are phenomenal in the half court and go about it in fairly different ways. 

The Warriors have any incredibly versatile lineup full of guys that can kill you with spacing and ball movement. 

The Rockets have two guys who can murder teams in the PNR then fill in guys around them that can either bury shots or finish at the rim. 

IU, without Davis on the floor, will be able to do a little bit of both (HOU and GSW can both do both). A PNR with the ball in Romeo's hands, Morgan screening and Smith diving from the opposite corner, McRoberts in the near corner and Green on opposite wing is going to be deadly. 

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