cybergates Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 On 4/20/2019 at 11:44 PM, iuthruandthru said: Speaking of Michiana food I loved growing up, I miss Shakey’s Pizza and Boonie Doon When you said Shakey's Pizza, I thought why does that sound familiar? Then, I remembered they are all over the Philippines. I guess there are 2x as many there than there are left in the US (according to wiki). I got tired of Filipino food when I was there, so Shakey's and another pizza place were my refuge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Seeking6 said: Understand and agree to a certain extent. Just my 2 cents. IF and it's a big IF only for conversation he chooses LSU over IU....shadow or not it tells me we were never a true consideration to begin with. Choosing LSU over any of the schools let alone IU wouldn't feel right one bit. LSU has so much shade over their program right now. That's all I was saying. I don't get LSU at all. Sanctions are not just possible, but likely as far as I'm concerned. LSU makes sense for none of these kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 hours ago, cybergates said: When you said Shakey's Pizza, I thought why does that sound familiar? Then, I remembered they are all over the Philippines. I guess there are 2x as many there than there are left in the US (according to wiki). I got tired of Filipino food when I was there, so Shakey's and another pizza place were my refuge. Yeah I read online there are only like 50 left in the US but hundreds overseas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, FKIM01 said: I don't get LSU at all. Sanctions are not just possible, but likely as far as I'm concerned. LSU makes sense for none of these kids. I don't mean to turn this into some sort of philosophical/societal discussion, but I think in our ever-changing, "get mine" society, there isn't nearly as much of a stigma around taking money to go to a school. Of course as long as college basketball has been around there have been players asking for money and coaches willing to give it, but I think the days of a player being seen as "dirty" for taking money or going to a school that is shady are going away. With the growing idea that players should be paid, the stigma attached to taking money, even if it's against the rules, is going away with it. I think among the players it's almost viewed as a badge of honor to go to a program that is offering money, regardless of the repercussions, if there are any. It's almost viewed to be stupid to a go to a school that isn't paying, since this movement that they deserved to be paid. PS: This post isn't for or against kids getting paid, just pointing out that it seems taking money in 2019, even if against the rules, isn't viewed as a 'hush, hush, dirty" move anymore, it's more viewed in the "alright, go get yours" view. Hope any of this made sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, BGleas said: I don't mean to turn this into some sort of philosophical/societal discussion, but I think in our ever-changing, "get mine" society, there isn't nearly as much of a stigma around taking money to go to a school. Of course as long as college basketball has been around there have been players asking for money and coaches willing to give it, but I think the days of a player being seen as "dirty" for taking money or going to a school that is shady are going away. With the growing idea that players should be paid, the stigma attached to taking money, even if it's against the rules, is going away with it. I think among the players it's almost viewed as a badge of honor to go to a program that is offering money, regardless of the repercussions, if there are any. It's almost viewed to be stupid to a go to a school that isn't paying, since this movement that they deserved to be paid. PS: This post isn't for or against kids getting paid, just pointing out that it seems taking money in 2019, even if against the rules, isn't viewed as a 'hush, hush, dirty" move anymore, it's more viewed in the "alright, go get yours" view. Hope any of this made sense? I think there’s A LOT to what you’re saying. Not just in recruiting but in life. I read the other day that a very high percent of millienials lie ok applications and most don’t see anything wrong with it. What’s more important is that you GET the job, not how you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: I think there’s A LOT to what you’re saying. Not just in recruiting but in life. I read the other day that a very high percent of millienials lie ok applications and most don’t see anything wrong with it. What’s more important is that you GET the job, not how you do. That is a very sad state we are in if they don't see anything wrong with cheating. That win at any cost attitude is what is making sports harder and harder to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 26 minutes ago, BGleas said: I don't mean to turn this into some sort of philosophical/societal discussion, but I think in our ever-changing, "get mine" society, there isn't nearly as much of a stigma around taking money to go to a school. Of course as long as college basketball has been around there have been players asking for money and coaches willing to give it, but I think the days of a player being seen as "dirty" for taking money or going to a school that is shady are going away. With the growing idea that players should be paid, the stigma attached to taking money, even if it's against the rules, is going away with it. I think among the players it's almost viewed as a badge of honor to go to a program that is offering money, regardless of the repercussions, if there are any. It's almost viewed to be stupid to a go to a school that isn't paying, since this movement that they deserved to be paid. PS: This post isn't for or against kids getting paid, just pointing out that it seems taking money in 2019, even if against the rules, isn't viewed as a 'hush, hush, dirty" move anymore, it's more viewed in the "alright, go get yours" view. Hope any of this made sense? I think it's less of a stigma as the conversation of college players getting paid has grown, but I don't think there's any kind of wide-spread perception that you're "stupid" for not going to a school that's breaking the rules to pay you. Programs like Duke etc. are not hurting for recruits, and it's still the exception that a genuinely good (next-level type) player is caught actually getting paid, that's a very small number of players in the grand scheme of things. However, more to your point, agree that programs that are caught breaking NCAA rules do not seem to be losing out on recruits going forward. The stigma has been lessened, and probably just as important if not more so, that NCAA is so ridiculously incompetent and uncaring, that programs like UNC that break a much bigger rule -- fake academics that undermines the entire idea of the "student athlete" -- go completely unpunished and win NCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: I think it's less of a stigma as the conversation of college players getting paid has grown, but I don't think there's any kind of wide-spread perception that you're "stupid" for not going to a school that's breaking the rules to pay you. Programs like Duke etc. are not hurting for recruits, and it's still the exception that a genuinely good (next-level type) player is caught actually getting paid, that's a very small number of players in the grand scheme of things. However, more to your point, agree that programs that are caught breaking NCAA rules do not seem to be losing out on recruits going forward. The stigma has been lessened, and probably just as important if not more so, that NCAA is so ridiculously incompetent and uncaring, that programs like UNC that break a much bigger rule -- fake academics that undermines the entire idea of the "student athlete" -- go completely unpunished and win NCs. As far as the "stupid" comment, of course there was some hyperbole there, but I think among the players there is a fast growing ideology that there is nothing wrong with going to the highest bidder, and that it's actually warranted and deserved. Whereas in the past it was sort of a Scarlet letter. I don't understand your point about Duke? You don't think Duke players are getting paid? Have you seen the house that Zion Williamson's family allegedly lived in this season? I think way more players are getting paid than we even realized, the difference is that in 2019 it's not coaches dropping off duffel bags of cash, though that did reportedly happen with Louisville. The money is now funneled through runners, agents and show companies so that the smart coaches (not Self, Wade, Sean Miller, etc.) aren't in part of it. If that kid from Kansas (DeSilva) had to pay back $20K, or was is it $60k, to Maryland because Kansas outbid them, then what are the top guys getting? DeSilva wasn't even rated that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 hours ago, BGleas said: As far as the "stupid" comment, of course there was some hyperbole there, but I think among the players there is a fast growing ideology that there is nothing wrong with going to the highest bidder, and that it's actually warranted and deserved. Whereas in the past it was sort of a Scarlet letter. I don't understand your point about Duke? You don't think Duke players are getting paid? Have you seen the house that Zion Williamson's family allegedly lived in this season? I think way more players are getting paid than we even realized, the difference is that in 2019 it's not coaches dropping off duffel bags of cash, though that did reportedly happen with Louisville. The money is now funneled through runners, agents and show companies so that the smart coaches (not Self, Wade, Sean Miller, etc.) aren't in part of it. If that kid from Kansas (DeSilva) had to pay back $20K, or was is it $60k, to Maryland because Kansas outbid them, then what are the top guys getting? DeSilva wasn't even rated that high. No I really don't think Duke is paying players, through anyone. That's a real, real stretch of credibility. I'm no Duke fan, but that's not a dirty program. KU I can see for sure, especially with what is swirling around that program right now. Duke, no. There's zero evidence there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: No I really don't think Duke is paying players, through anyone. That's a real, real stretch of credibility. I'm no Duke fan, but that's not a dirty program. KU I can see for sure, especially with what is swirling around that program right now. Duke, no. There's zero evidence there. So you think Zion turned down the money from KU to go to Duke for free. Also how do you explain the huge house that Zion's family moved into after he went to Duke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: So you think Zion turned down the money from KU to go to Duke for free. Also how do you explain the huge house that Zion's family moved into after he went to Duke. You're speculating. There is ZERO evidence of Duke / Coach K etc. paying players. Zero. Your speculation is just speculation. I have no idea about how Zion's family pays for a home. Do you? No, you don't. It's of course possible we find out Duke players benefited from Nike under-the-table stuff, but even that wouldn't make Duke guilty of paying players. What's the point in calling a program dirty with zero evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: You're speculating. There is ZERO evidence of Duke / Coach K etc. paying players. Zero. Your speculation is just speculation. I have no idea about how Zion's family pays for a home. Do you? No, you don't. It's of course possible we find out Duke players benefited from Nike under-the-table stuff, but even that wouldn't make Duke guilty of paying players. What's the point in calling a program dirty with zero evidence? I read the nearly million dollar home was owned by a Duke grad according to a major media outlet. Or so I had thought. My memory fails to provide more details or a link, so with that, credibility falls through the crack. Even if it's true, does it fall in the impermissible benefits category. Time for research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 A couple of seconds of googling turned up a wealth of information. No major media outlets, but plenty of consistencies none the less. Up to the individual to determine if they are credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: You're speculating. There is ZERO evidence of Duke / Coach K etc. paying players. Zero. Your speculation is just speculation. I have no idea about how Zion's family pays for a home. Do you? No, you don't. It's of course possible we find out Duke players benefited from Nike under-the-table stuff, but even that wouldn't make Duke guilty of paying players. What's the point in calling a program dirty with zero evidence? I believe Duke and Oregon outsourced their cheating to Nike (and others), while coach K does his best Captain Renault impression, “I’m shocked to find cheating here” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, PoHoosier said: A couple of seconds of googling turned up a wealth of information. No major media outlets, but plenty of consistencies none the less. Up to the individual to determine if they are credible. What's the information? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I do not buy into conspiracy theories and speculation that a program like Duke is paying players. I think that is, at best, an incredible stretch of the imagination. Again, I am FAR from a Duke fan, can't stand Duke and the jackamole that Coach K has become, but they flat out do not need to pay players and there is just no evidence of any sort that I've seen that Duke actually pays players. Really, that's an incredible stretch. Now the Nike thing is a different animal. Duke, of course, has not been caught up in that scandal, and rest assured the prosecutors would have put on testimony that implicated Duke if they had found any, but that's always possible, imo, given the number high level Nike officers who were involved, and prosecuted, and that number of schools that were implicated, KU being right there. But that's not Duke paying players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I believe Duke and Oregon outsourced their cheating to Nike (and others), while coach K does his best Captain Renault impression, “I’m shocked to find cheating here” Lol. The prosecution put on witnesses that implicated programs and coaches. Duke was not implicated. I think it's obvious that if the prosecutors found anything on Duke that would've come out in the testimony. Not saying it's not possible that Nike was involved with Duke players / agents, that's always possible, but it's not Duke paying players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said: What's the information? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I do not buy into conspiracy theories and speculation that a program like Duke is paying players. I think that is, at best, an incredible stretch of the imagination. Again, I am FAR from a Duke fan, can't stand Duke and the jackamole that Coach K has become, but they flat out do not need to pay players and there is just no evidence of any sort that I've seen that Duke actually pays players. Really, that's an incredible stretch. Now the Nike thing is a different animal. Duke, of course, has not been caught up in that scandal, and rest assured the prosecutors would have put on testimony that implicated Duke if they had found any, but that's always possible, imo, given the number high level Nike officers who were involved, and prosecuted, and that number of schools that were implicated, KU being right there. But that's not Duke paying players. I didn't mean to imply Duke was paying players, however, I have plenty of reasons to think a few wealthy boosters may be aiding or Sam Gilberting things along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Lol. The prosecution put on witnesses that implicated programs and coaches. Duke was not implicated. I think it's obvious that if the prosecutors found anything on Duke that would've come out in the testimony. Not saying it's not possible that Nike was involved with Duke players / agents, that's always possible, but it's not Duke paying players. That was an Adidas investigation, not Nike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 Cool. Guys, I've jumped on the OT run in this thread. If you guys want to talk more about Duke or other programs paying or supposedly paying players, etc., please start a new thread, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, 13th&Jackson said: That was an Adidas investigation, not Nike Yes, that's true my bad for the over-simplification. But there's been testimony all over the place along with media reporting about coaches involved and being investigated and prosecuted. Duke, to the point, has not been implicated by anyone. Neither has IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 56 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Cool. Guys, I've jumped on the OT run in this thread. If you guys want to talk more about Duke or other programs paying or supposedly paying players, etc., please start a new thread, thanks. Haha, self policing yourself? Thread hijacker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted April 22, 2019 Report Share Posted April 22, 2019 5 hours ago, IU Scott said: That is a very sad state we are in if they don't see anything wrong with cheating. That win at any cost attitude is what is making sports harder and harder to enjoy. I couldn’t agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Lol. The prosecution put on witnesses that implicated programs and coaches. Duke was not implicated. I think it's obvious that if the prosecutors found anything on Duke that would've come out in the testimony. Not saying it's not possible that Nike was involved with Duke players / agents, that's always possible, but it's not Duke paying players. Calipari and Kentucky are clean by that logic too. I think it is clear that Coach K and Duke jumped into the same game as Calipari did. Even with Duke being a good program, there was a very noticeable uptick in their recruiting a few years ago in response to the Calipari model. You can also see that Kentucky slightly dipped around that time as well. So yeah, Coach K and Duke are not paying players just like Wooden and UCLA were not. No, they got Nike to do that for them much like Gilbert did for UCLA. Duke has been shady since at least Magette and Boozer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said: Calipari and Kentucky are clean by that logic too. I think it is clear that Coach K and Duke jumped into the same game as Calipari did. Even with Duke being a good program, there was a very noticeable uptick in their recruiting a few years ago in response to the Calipari model. You can also see that Kentucky slightly dipped around that time as well. So yeah, Coach K and Duke are not paying players just like Wooden and UCLA were not. No, they got Nike to do that for them much like Gilbert did for UCLA. Duke has been shady since at least Magette and Boozer. This. I'm confident that Duke is benefiting from crooked recruiting and I'm confident the coach knows about it. Coach K has kept his hands clean, but I still see him as a dirtbag. Just a smarter dirtbag than Will Wade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 9 hours ago, BADGERVOL said: I think there’s A LOT to what you’re saying. Not just in recruiting but in life. I read the other day that a very high percent of millienials lie ok applications and most don’t see anything wrong with it. What’s more important is that you GET the job, not how you do. I'm in sales and I've wondered about that before - what stops people from making up their numbers? How would you go about verifying it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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