Garland/Langford Combo Megathread

[68Hoosier]

10 hours ago, bluegrassIU said:

Wait! Who is on 1st?

Yes!!!  hahaha

[IUaic]

3 hours ago, Blazin Hazin said:

Never really understood that situation.  Why did the Baylor coach think he could get Hanner deported and why did he think the threat would help in the recruitment?  

He probably knew he could not get Hanner deported. He was betting on Hanner not knowing the coach could not get him deported.

Is it really surprising coming from Scott Drew's staff?

[milehiiu]

3 hours ago, Blazin Hazin said:

Never really understood that situation.  Why did the Baylor coach think he could get Hanner deported and why did he think the threat would help in the recruitment?  

Pretty much the actions of a rouge assistant.  Who contacted Hanner at LaLa in Indiana, while he was suspended from doing so.  The full details never came out, as both Baylor and the NCAA stood behind the protection of silence during an ongoing investigation.  What did come out, however, were text messages of Hanner being threatened with deportation, if he committed to IU.

Also part of the story at the time was the involvement Mark Adams of the A-Hope program had with Hanner.  Adams, if you will remember, was branded an "IU Booster" because of a $185.00"' donation to IU, many decades previously.  Mark bought Hanner cell phones, computers, and assorted other items, which most kids in the U.S. have , but Hanner did not have.  Making the matter even less clear, was the fact that Mark had signed legal papers so that he would be able to care of Hanner, while Hanner was living in Indiana. In the end, the NCAA suspended Hanner for the first 9 games of his college career.

And Baylor and Drew were branded as bad actors in this whole sordid mess, by many in the coaching community. Unfortunately,  some at the time, attempted to brand Crean as a bad actor due to the A-hope connection.  To tamp down on that, IU severed their relationship with Mark Adams and the A-hope program for the next couple of years.  To this day, I am not sure it has ever been renewed. 

Baylor Is Said to Be Under Investigation - The New York Times

 

[JaybobHoosier]

 

[cybergates]

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/20846890/2019-nba-mock-draft-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-more-top-prospects

Romeo and Darius going next to each other at 9&10, why not play next to each other at IU?

[Hoosrnight]

 

[milehiiu]

6 hours ago, Hoosrnight said:

 

Albers, rightfully so, has caught some grief from IU fans from some of the things he has said and done in the past.  However, I have found him to be really dialed into IU stuff since getting relieved of duty from Scout.

Delving deeper into your linked tweet, I found this.  Which should be of interest to all HSN.03 members :

Could Indiana Really Land Romeo Langford and Darius Garland? | AlbersAngle.com

 

And thanks night for your contribution. 

[Proud2BAHoosier]

6 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Albers, rightfully so, has caught some grief from IU fans from some of the things he has said and done in the past.  However, I have found him to be really dialed into IU stuff since getting relieved of duty from Scout.

Delving deeper into your linked tweet, I found this.  Which should be of interest to all HSN.03 members :

Could Indiana Really Land Romeo Langford and Darius Garland? | AlbersAngle.com

 

And thanks night for your contribution. 

Hmmm...... Article also states that IF the Hoosiers get both Langford and Garland, it could be at the expense of losing Phinisee, possibly to Purdue......

[Hoosrnight]

7 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Albers, rightfully so, has caught some grief from IU fans from some of the things he has said and done in the past.  However, I have found him to be really dialed into IU stuff since getting relieved of duty from Scout.

Delving deeper into your linked tweet, I found this.  Which should be of interest to all HSN.03 members :

Could Indiana Really Land Romeo Langford and Darius Garland? | AlbersAngle.com

 

And thanks night for your contribution. 

I know Albers name isn't great, but I figured it wouldnt hurt to share the tweet. Thought it was kind of interesting. Good article you found as well, mile. It would be nice to find a way to get both and still keep all the other 2018 kids.

Ive been pretty quiet on most of our other boards, but I'm ready to take my messaging game to the next level here. Lol

 

[FW_Hoosier]

32 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Hmmm...... Article also states that IF the Hoosiers get both Langford and Garland, it could be at the expense of losing Phinisee, possibly to Purdue......

I don't see why Phinisee would go to Purdue.  They signed the other Indiana point guard, Hunter, who should stay in college for four years just like Phinisee.  Garland will only stay 1 or 2 years, and then Phinisee will be able to take the reigns as an upperclassman.  And I think Phinisee will still get playing time next season even if we do get Garland.

[IU_Realist]

1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I don't see why Phinisee would go to Purdue.  They signed the other Indiana point guard, Hunter, who should stay in college for four years just like Phinisee.  Garland will only stay 1 or 2 years, and then Phinisee will be able to take the reigns as an upperclassman.  And I think Phinisee will still get playing time next season even if we do get Garland.

Hunter isn't a PG.  

[ADegenerate]

I know that bringing negative energy into the forum isn't fun but I'd like to bring some objectivity here and maybe soften the blow for some younger folks who haven't followed the recruiting like I have for so long. We've been fighting an uphill battle for the best players in a tier system that a select few schools have dominated for the last 20 plus years. The three things that are most important for these kids is 1) The nba. 2) Winning. 3) Exposure. Archie is at one hell of a disadvantage here. Asking young starry eyed future millionaires to turn down schools with such amazing track records almost seems futile. I'm not even sure if it's possible to wrangle that hold that they have in that top tier. There's about 7 teams that are locked into that first tier who scoop up the top 10 players and one of them has to be kicked out for IU to jump in. Hell, even if they we're leaning toward IU I'm not sure how you could turn down these NBA factories. We're talking millions here. Yes, I am jaded but logical. The system is rigged against us and I'm not sure how you penetrate it and make that jump up.

Players in the NBA per school (final fours since 2000).

Kansas 14 (4).

UNC 12 (6).

UCLA 12 (3).

IU 7 (1).

Vandy 2 (0).

UK 22 (4).

Fair play to Archie for doing everything he can to make that jump up but you're asking a whole lot of these kids to turn down these NBA factories for an unknown. If Romeo and/or Garland have the balls to go to IU then I'll have an incredible amount of respect for them. Sorry for being a downer but the system is rigged against us and I'm seeing a lot of folks getting their hopes up without (potentially) considering all the factors. 

[ADegenerate]

To put a positive spin on my defense mechanism meltdown  of rejection. I'm feeling the positive vibes and optimism that's been gone for ages and that's amazing news. I'd love to look the idiot here, believe that!

[dbmhoosier]

I just completely disagree AD.  Any competent coach can land burger boys here.  Crean had 5 in 5 years at one point before people realized what a weirdo he was.  He even had Trey Lyles and was leading for Kyrie Irving before Mccleod turned on him.  Sampson had 2 in a little over a year.  None were great recruiters.

We have probably the largest fan base in the country after only maybe UK.  We're on national TV as much as anyone.  We have a home court advantage that is 2nd to none.  We have elite facilities.   There's no reason to not expect at least one 5 star every year.  Thad Matta landed tons of them and that was at a school where spring football practice is more important than a FF game. 

[Reacher]

2 hours ago, ADegenerate said:

I know that bringing negative energy into the forum isn't fun but I'd like to bring some objectivity here and maybe soften the blow for some younger folks who haven't followed the recruiting like I have for so long. We've been fighting an uphill battle for the best players in a tier system that a select few schools have dominated for the last 20 plus years. The three things that are most important for these kids is 1) The nba. 2) Winning. 3) Exposure. Archie is at one hell of a disadvantage here. Asking young starry eyed future millionaires to turn down schools with such amazing track records almost seems futile. I'm not even sure if it's possible to wrangle that hold that they have in that top tier. There's about 7 teams that are locked into that first tier who scoop up the top 10 players and one of them has to be kicked out for IU to jump in. Hell, even if they we're leaning toward IU I'm not sure how you could turn down these NBA factories. We're talking millions here. Yes, I am jaded but logical. The system is rigged against us and I'm not sure how you penetrate it and make that jump up.

Players in the NBA per school (final fours since 2000).

Kansas 14 (4).

UNC 12 (6).

UCLA 12 (3).

IU 7 (1).

Vandy 2 (0).

UK 22 (4).

Fair play to Archie for doing everything he can to make that jump up but you're asking a whole lot of these kids to turn down these NBA factories for an unknown. If Romeo and/or Garland have the balls to go to IU then I'll have an incredible amount of respect for them. Sorry for being a downer but the system is rigged against us and I'm seeing a lot of folks getting their hopes up without (potentially) considering all the factors. 

I'd also add MSU and Louisville as competitors often going after the same talent pool. 

The big factor that may realign this landscape is the FBI. Already knocked Louisville out of the picture.

[addictedtoIU]

1 hour ago, dbmhoosier said:

Crean had 5 in 5 years at one point before people realized what a weirdo he was.

You cracked me up!

[ADegenerate]

4 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

I just completely disagree AD.  Any competent coach can land burger boys here.  Crean had 5 in 5 years at one point before people realized what a weirdo he was.  He even had Trey Lyles and was leading for Kyrie Irving before Mccleod turned on him.  Sampson had 2 in a little over a year.  None were great recruiters.

We have probably the largest fan base in the country after only maybe UK.  We're on national TV as much as anyone.  We have a home court advantage that is 2nd to none.  We have elite facilities.   There's no reason to not expect at least one 5 star every year.  Thad Matta landed tons of them and that was at a school where spring football practice is more important than a FF game. 

4 of those 5 recruits that Crean landed weren't traditional 5 star recruits. Zeller, Blackmon, and Yogi were local kids that came from families who were well off and who placed a ton of importance on things  like typical Midwestern values so that worked well in Creans favor. They weren't the Deshaun Thomas, Teagues, Swanigan types. Blackmon wanted UK but Booker took his spot so he chose IU where he could be a focal point. Vonleh reclassified and was looking for a school to showcase his talent and be the main guy, we just happened to be a natural fit. Bryant was the only real 'catch'. Outside of Zeller those recruits weren't instant game changers anyway. Fringe 5 star players. I'm not going to say that I wasn't impressed and happy with the direction we were going because I thought Crean 'got it' as far as being a tier 2 draw from top players. Yogi, Blackmon, Vonleh, and Bryant weren't the first choice option for the bigger schools that I'm talking about so they landed at a school that was fitting of their stature. 

The fan base angle is important sure but nowhere near the level of importance of the other things I mentioned. We might have a '100' rating when it comes to the fan base but those schools I'm referring to are pushing the 'upper 90's' so there isn't that large of difference. Yes, we're on TV often but that's not where the attention is at. Those schools all have an identity and pull in a certain 'type of 5 star recruit'. Duke lands the kids who consider themselves to be intelligent and see themselves as self-important. UNC gets the athletes. Kentucky gets the NBA kids who want to be sensations. Kansas lands the midwestern kids and outliers. Arizona/UCLA locked up the west coast. We haven't been winning and don't pop for any particular reason as of now for the top kids. IU can be a gold mine for banking talented players in the 30-100 range for the reasons that you mentioned. Crean did it half-way and had the right idea but he was just too weird to apply it properly. You're right about Thad Motta. He had a solid run but couldn't accumulate enough top to bottom talent on top of the home run recruit. I class Tom Izzo in the same range. There's a reason that MSU can't rip one off. They were getting good enough players to final four but didn't have the talent to match what they we're up against. Wisconsin and Virginia are two other schools caught in the trap. Great teams with good coachs but not enough talent to beat three elite 8 caliber teams in succession. 

Until you can stack up a  team full of mid to high level four star players on top of classes with multiple top 10 players your chances of winning extremely limited. You can try it gimmick style like with Boeheim (ahem, with Melo). You can do it gimmick style like Pitno with his press and also cheat. Or you can be the one in 30 year exception and do it with  with decent four stars and a low level 5 in brunson in nova. The only true team that won when they shouldn't won is the napier team.

We're obviously trying to emulate the UNC style (the only real + best option) but the point I'm making is that it's a long shot to pull it off. We'll see how it plays out and it couldn't have started any better as we actually are knocking on the door now. Can we burst through? Not expecting in but we'll see.

[dbmhoosier]

I don't think Maryland had a burger boy when they beat us in 2002.  How was Billy Donovan's recruiting at FL?  If I'm not mistaken it was mostly 4 stars with a 5 star here and there mixed in.  I think that's what Archie will try to emulate.  Point is that it can be done.  

[ADegenerate]

3 hours ago, Reacher said:

I'd also add MSU and Louisville as competitors often going after the same talent pool. 

The big factor that may realign this landscape is the FBI. Already knocked Louisville out of the picture.

Your point is true but that's not much of an issue for me. UL and MSU aren't really draws for the top talent unless they are close in proximity to the school (ie romeo or being from michgan/indiana). I think we're either going to break through into the arizona level (just outside of uk + duke) and get the targets we're after or we'll start fizzling and be resigned to landing the types of guys archie is landing now. 30-100 range. That's not the end of the world at all by the way and it's a great start.

[ADegenerate]

4 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I don't think Maryland had a burger boy when they beat us in 2002.  How was Billy Donovan's recruiting at FL?  If I'm not mistaken it was mostly 4 stars with a 5 star here and there mixed in.  I think that's what Archie will try to emulate.  Point is that it can be done.  

They had three nba players. Wilcox, blake and juan dixon. 1 seed too.

Billy landed loads of high level 4 star players sprinkled in with 5 star plays here in there like Brewer. After winning the title he started getting them regularly with people like parsons and calethas. It can be done yes but that was a pretty significant exception. Green, horford, and noah we're all solid 4 star recruits and brewer was a 5. Horford and noah turned into nba all-stars and brewer was on another level defensively. They also all turned down the NBA to repeat. Pretty special class. 

[dbmhoosier]

Rick Barnes landed lots of 5 stars as well at a football school.  We also have the best in state recruiting of any top program.  Also keep in mind that guys like Roy, Coach K, Boeheim, etc are dinosaurs and won't be around much longer.  I see Cal and Self as the main competition in a few years.

Let's also not forget Butler who made it 2 title games with mostly 3 stars on its roster.  And I don't think UNC had a top 10 recruit between 2013-2016 and still won the title last season.  They only had 1 top 15 recruit in Jackson.  It can be done.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Rick Barnes landed lots of 5 stars as well at a football school.  We also have the best in state recruiting of any top program.  Also keep in mind that guys like Roy, Coach K, Boeheim, etc are dinosaurs and won't be around much longer.  I see Cal and Self as the main competition in a few years.

I think that the main competition in a few years is going to be guys like Collins or Wojo when they take over Duke, Shaka Smart, Chris Mack, The Florida coach, maybe the Ohio State coach. Guys with lots of energy and young enough to connect with this generation of teenagers....basically other schools ' versions of Archie. 

[ADegenerate]

16 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Rick Barnes landed lots of 5 stars as well at a football school.  We also have the best in state recruiting of any top program.  Also keep in mind that guys like Roy, Coach K, Boeheim, etc are dinosaurs and won't be around much longer.  I see Cal and Self as the main competition in a few years.

Let's also not forget Butler who made it 2 title games with mostly 3 stars on its roster.

 

Barnes landed quite a few of them but you're underestimating just how fortunate of a situation he was in. Texas is incredibly populated, vast, and there isn't much in the way of competition if the kid wants to stay close to home. All his top recruits were from Texas baring KD and the guys playing prep in Vegas and his run landing that type of talent didn't last for more than 4 or 5 years. Not the same situation as were in as there's good basketball schools in every directions fighting for the same players divvying them up somewhat evenly. That's problem is the main culprit as to why the big 10 hasn't won a title since 2001. We've regressed to the mean as a whole without anybody standing out. 

For me it's all about the end result. Final Four's and Banners. I just did a little research on my 6 tier 1 recruiting schools (Duke, Unc, Uk, Kansas, Zona, Ucla). Since 2000 they have 22 final fours and 8 of the titles. It's pretty simple really...you start with a decent coach...then you sign the best players...what happens is just what should happen! They win and win big. We didn't sign the best players and...we didn't win. We made that one magical run in 2002. That's it. I'm tired of settling for mediocre and the only point I'm trying to make here is that the system they have in place consistently gets results whereas the rest settle for a good but not good enough team to win a title. Sure, there is a chance the stars align magically and you win at a school like Nova or that trash uconn team but that's insanely improbable! If it sounds like I'm jaded it's because I am jaded! We've been accustomed to mediocrity and aren't demanding better results as a fan base like we should have been. It's sad how much leeway we gave crean but that's a different topic. 

We've got a solid chance at breaking through but it's one hell of tough task to break into that category. If Archie is going to start beating out the big dogs he's going to have to do it with one hell of a sales pitch because we're behind at the moment looking up. No matter happens the basketball will be much better and the talent level will rise. It's going to be fun. Landing these big dogs year in and year out is the key to making multiple final four runs per decade.

 

 

[Hoosier987]

If I was a betting man, I think we get BOTH Garland and Romeo -- fingers crossed. Top 5 team next year if we do. 

[5fouls]

On 10/17/2017 at 1:47 PM, ADegenerate said:

I know that bringing negative energy into the forum isn't fun but I'd like to bring some objectivity here and maybe soften the blow for some younger folks who haven't followed the recruiting like I have for so long. We've been fighting an uphill battle for the best players in a tier system that a select few schools have dominated for the last 20 plus years. The three things that are most important for these kids is 1) The nba. 2) Winning. 3) Exposure. Archie is at one hell of a disadvantage here. Asking young starry eyed future millionaires to turn down schools with such amazing track records almost seems futile. I'm not even sure if it's possible to wrangle that hold that they have in that top tier. There's about 7 teams that are locked into that first tier who scoop up the top 10 players and one of them has to be kicked out for IU to jump in. Hell, even if they we're leaning toward IU I'm not sure how you could turn down these NBA factories. We're talking millions here. Yes, I am jaded but logical. The system is rigged against us and I'm not sure how you penetrate it and make that jump up.

Players in the NBA per school (final fours since 2000).

Kansas 14 (4).

UNC 12 (6).

UCLA 12 (3).

IU 7 (1).

Vandy 2 (0).

UK 22 (4).

Fair play to Archie for doing everything he can to make that jump up but you're asking a whole lot of these kids to turn down these NBA factories for an unknown. If Romeo and/or Garland have the balls to go to IU then I'll have an incredible amount of respect for them. Sorry for being a downer but the system is rigged against us and I'm seeing a lot of folks getting their hopes up without (potentially) considering all the factors. 

Romeo Langford wants to win and play in the NBA.  Beyond those two things, he doesn't have the same life perspective as the 'average' 5 star recruit.  If (When?) IU gets his commitment, it will be other factors that would have sealed the deal for the Cream & Crimson.